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Thread: How strong is Atobe ... really?

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    And then when he played Tezuka in the finals, it was revealed that Sanada had Rai and In up his sleeve the entire time. So yes, Sanada has always been better than Atobe.
    Given Atobe's potential and his tendency for drawn-out bouts, chances are that he could've endured Rai until Sanada's knees gave out.

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    And then when he played Tezuka in the finals, it was revealed that Sanada had Rai and In up his sleeve the entire time. So yes, Sanada has always been better than Atobe.
    And yet Yuki said that Sanada would have lost. Its not specified whether that is with his other techniques or not, but we may assume that Yuki knows Sanada well enough to make that statement.

    So like I've been saying Atobe = Sanada (approx.). To really answer the question they would have to play each other.

    And if they did, given Atobe's history, I would see it going into a tiebreak (where anything can happen). Heck, I wonder when Atobe has actually gotten smashed in a match. He seems to always claw his way to a tiebreak.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by fdsjkl View Post
    And yet Yuki said that Sanada would have lost. Its not specified whether that is with his other techniques or not, but we may assume that Yuki knows Sanada well enough to make that statement.

    So like I've been saying Atobe = Sanada (approx.). To really answer the question they would have to play each other.

    And if they did, given Atobe's history, I would see it going into a tiebreak (where anything can happen). Heck, I wonder when Atobe has actually gotten smashed in a match. He seems to always claw his way to a tiebreak.
    Against Irie. Even if he evolved through the match, Irie never played at full strength, if that happened, it would be the first time that Atobe gets smacked in a match.

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Against Irie. Even if he evolved through the match, Irie never played at full strength, if that happened, it would be the first time that Atobe gets smacked in a match.
    Like I said earlier. Its unfortunate that Atobe plays crippled or sandbagging characters, e.g, Tezuka and Irie. We don't get to see his true potential.

    It will be interesting to see what happens when Atobe is actually overwhelmed -- the way the canon goes, maybe he evolves a new technique at that time.

    Recall that Tachibana was considered better than Atobe when he was introduced. But clearly we know that's not the case. What we really need is a serious match between Sanada and Atobe. I think we can agree that would be a good match!

    This discussion can go on for a while. The bottom line is that -- I think, Atobe is not done. We'll see him continue to evolve. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Tezuka end up at a comparable skill level toward the end of the series (Tezuka is clearly better right now).

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Unless Atobe gets an incredible technique that can compete with POP, then it'll be hard for him to reach his level.

  6. #21
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    Given Atobe's potential and his tendency for drawn-out bouts, chances are that he could've endured Rai until Sanada's knees gave out.
    Unless he has some way to return Rai or score points against it, I don't see how. Against Tezuka, Sanada used Rai for I believe 31 times (16 to get up to 4-0, another 15 against TPhantom iirc), and his knees weren't quite at their limit even then. If you can't do anything against Rai, it should only take 24 uses to win the match though.

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  8. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Don't forget about Atobe's Insight. His Insight allows him to analyse shots and the opponent's behaviour and movements, which allows him to figure out how to return a shot and what the opponent's weakness is. If Atobe had to face Sanada, his Insight could perhaps even predict the random movement of Rai and he might even be able to return it. Also, fast shots do not work on Atobe as shown when he returned Mach. So maybe Black Aura shots but definitely Fuu would be returned by Atobe. We also know that World of Ice > FuuRinKaZan as shown when Yukimura said that Sanada would have lost if he continued (unsure about Rai and In). Atobe Kingdom beats everybody but will Atobe have a chance to use it?

    Although overall I do reckon Sanada is better than Atobe, but Atobe would put up a very good and close fight.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Unless he has some way to return Rai or score points against it, I don't see how. Against Tezuka, Sanada used Rai for I believe 31 times (16 to get up to 4-0, another 15 against TPhantom iirc), and his knees weren't quite at their limit even then. If you can't do anything against Rai, it should only take 24 uses to win the match though.
    Thank you for saying this before I did. The only reason why Sanada's knees were giving out to begin with, was because of the fact he had to use it an abundance of times because of T-Phantom. Atobe has no way of returning Rai if Tezuka couldn't. People always flock to what Yukimura said after Sanada's match with Atobe to make a case for Atobe being better, and they COMPLETELY FORGET what Yukimura said during the match against Tezuka about himself being the ONLY ONE capable of beating Sanada as he is. That includes Atobe.

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by Fayte; May 29, 2012 at 09:10 AM.

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    I dont know how this went on so long lol.

    Atobe and Tezuka? Not on the same level, Atobe 7-6 score with a freakin injured Tezuka, Hiding Doubled Return on top of that.
    Tezuka >>> Atobe and they arent real eternal/equal rivals like you think. @fdsjkl

    Atobe VS Sanada? Rai can only be handled in the series so far by Yukimura, Tezuka (Possible Echizen Ryoma).
    Atobe WILL lose. Dont care for the scoreline, but it WILL be a confident loss for him.

    Atobe's Insight may predict Rai? Cool. Tezuka was able to predict it and get the ball to him with TZ... It raped his racket.
    Your Techinque MUST be at Yukimura's level at the minimum OR have Tezuka Phantom, (Which cant be used excessively so Sanada will still overcome it coz he has decent endurance).

    Unfortunately, Yukimura is depicted to have amongst the best Technique in the series. And TPhantom is only used by Niou and Tezuka.
    Sorry but, Atobe is a level below Tezuka, Yukimura and Sanada. Always has been. We will see if that changes.

    Going by his match against Ochi, your a joker if you think Atobe is at their standard.

    ---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fdsjkl View Post
    It will be interesting to see what happens when Atobe is actually overwhelmed -- the way the canon goes, maybe he evolves a new technique at that time.

    Recall that Tachibana was considered better than Atobe when he was introduced. But clearly we know that's not the case. What we really need is a serious match between Sanada and Atobe. I think we can agree that would be a good match!
    I would hate that match. I like Atobe. Would hate to see him get crushed. Sanada will defeat all MSers in this camp with only Yukimura and Ryoma being able to be of a challenge to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by fdsjkl View Post
    This discussion can go on for a while. The bottom line is that -- I think, Atobe is not done. We'll see him continue to evolve. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Tezuka end up at a comparable skill level toward the end of the series (Tezuka is clearly better right now).
    This discussion should end now really. Atobe has nothing to suggest he can compete with Tezuka. And that's that. PoP will end him.
    I wouldnt be surprised either but, right now as you have said. Atobe stands no chance.

    How strong is Atobe really? In the tier with Akutsu, Niou, Tooyama, Fuji and Shiraishi.

  11. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    How strong is Atobe really? In the tier with Akutsu, Niou, Tooyama, Fuji and Shiraishi.
    Tooyama and Akutsu are above him, like Echizen, Yukimura, Sanada and Tezuka. Atobe, from my point of view, can't get any better, I think he'll never be in another tier. What upgrade can you give to him?

    Maybe he becomes fodder lol

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Yeah, but for the way it's going in the series right now, shouldn't we predict things by 3 sets? If Sanada's Rai can win the the first set. And 7 more use (according to Kaoz) for another game. How'll he beat the other 2 set?
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Yeah, but for the way it's going in the series right now, shouldn't we predict things by 3 sets? If Sanada's Rai can win the the first set. And 7 more use (according to Kaoz) for another game. How'll he beat the other 2 set?
    Let's predict that every MSer's stamina has been boosted slightly.
    Since if Niou can also do many sets, and the next MSers that appear do a few sets, then its clear that EVERYBODY'S stamina stat has lifted at a reasonable amount.

    @LetalHawk, Tooyama can hit 5 at once, but on Atobe's serve, Tooyama stands no chance if he Atobe brings out AK. Akutsu should be able to handle any ''dead angle'' shots with ease as he can hit any shot from any position. But it doesnt mean he will wipe Atobe as Atobe still has his good variety of smashes and techniques.
    Remember Atobe shut down Muga Ryoma for a long time.

    Also, Tooyama and Akutsu arent on Sanada, Yukimura level.
    So they grouping them with Atobe and Shiraishi is appropriate.

  14. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Let's predict that every MSer's stamina has been boosted slightly.
    Since if Niou can also do many sets, and the next MSers that appear do a few sets, then its clear that EVERYBODY'S stamina stat has lifted at a reasonable amount.
    Stamina is one thing, but leg injury looked like me like another matter entirely. His leg is injured, from his own techniques, not by any accident. He might be able to handle more pain, though, due to his mountain training. But how much can someone improve in that, really? Assuming that it's by 50%, rate pretty much impossible for human being, that's 31*1.5=46.5, so let's say 47. That's 5 game into set 2. And the rest will be cakewalk for player of Atobe level.

    He'll need Black Aura to beat Atobe.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I dont know how this went on so long lol.

    Atobe and Tezuka? Not on the same level, Atobe 7-6 score with a freakin injured Tezuka, Hiding Doubled Return on top of that.
    Tezuka >>> Atobe and they arent real eternal/equal rivals like you think. @fdsjkl

    Atobe VS Sanada? Rai can only be handled in the series so far by Yukimura, Tezuka (Possible Echizen Ryoma).
    Atobe WILL lose. Dont care for the scoreline, but it WILL be a confident loss for him.

    Atobe's Insight may predict Rai? Cool. Tezuka was able to predict it and get the ball to him with TZ... It raped his racket.
    Your Techinque MUST be at Yukimura's level at the minimum OR have Tezuka Phantom, (Which cant be used excessively so Sanada will still overcome it coz he has decent endurance).

    Unfortunately, Yukimura is depicted to have amongst the best Technique in the series. And TPhantom is only used by Niou and Tezuka.
    Sorry but, Atobe is a level below Tezuka, Yukimura and Sanada. Always has been. We will see if that changes.
    I think we've reached a consensus. But one thing that I disagree with is your emphasis on techniques. New techniques can just pop up randomly in a match. Given the track record in the canon, if Atobe and Sanada were to play, who is to say that Atobe doesn't 'invent' some counter to Rai after dropping 5 straight games (familiar pattern?). In fact, I think its v. likely that Atobe vs Sanada goes into some sort of tiebreak.

    I love how ppl on this forum post technique Y owns technique X ergo player Y wins. In PoT, there is some mid-match revelation that obseletes the godlike status of technique Y. Techniques in PoT are ephemeral.

    But whatever. If I was a betting man. I'd say that closer to the end of the series Atobe will be on the same tier as Sanada -- if he isn't already. Possibly, Tezuka (but I wouldn't bet on that one).

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    Re: How strong is Atobe ... really?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Stamina is one thing, but leg injury looked like me like another matter entirely. His leg is injured, from his own techniques, not by any accident. He might be able to handle more pain, though, due to his mountain training. But how much can someone improve in that, really? Assuming that it's by 50%, rate pretty much impossible for human being, that's 31*1.5=46.5, so let's say 47. That's 5 game into set 2. And the rest will be cakewalk for player of Atobe level.

    He'll need Black Aura to beat Atobe.
    Erm... Kaidoh's stamina practically tripled during Inui's training between a tournament.
    I think that after THE MOST Extreme training session Konomi has given us in the series (Mountain Training) will give the best results we have seen so far.
    Your using HUMAN Logic for PoT again. Could ya stop doing that lol.

    If Niou gets shown to be able to cope with 3 sets, then Im telling you Every other Top MSer including Sanada will too. Lightning will last him pretty long after training.
    WITH BA Atobe is a dead man, but I reckon Sanada could still defeat him w/out BA.

    You ask how much can someone improve? Kawamura's ability to taking a beating is fantastic. Even better than the Nationals I think. Summer of Danji KO'd Nakagauchi who survived against Krauser's best techniques which BADLY hurt Kirihara. Its likely that Date Danji > Ishida Gin.
    Kawamura survived Date.

    So I reckon every other MSer's endurance lifted. So did Kabaji's, Im guessing Kintaro's endurance for pain lifted too. So im not saying the endurance lift is exclusive to Sanada. I reckon ALL Losers now have better endurance for pain.
    Sanada > Atobe. And likely without BA.

    ---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fdsjkl View Post
    I think we've reached a consensus. But one thing that I disagree with is your emphasis on techniques. New techniques can just pop up randomly in a match. Given the track record in the canon, if Atobe and Sanada were to play, who is to say that Atobe doesn't 'invent' some counter to Rai after dropping 5 straight games (familiar pattern?). In fact, I think its v. likely that Atobe vs Sanada goes into some sort of tiebreak.
    We go by facts on the forum. Your being a comedian if part of your argument is a massive chunk of plot power changing the match.
    You havent come here to argue REALLY have you? Your being an intense Atobe fan right now lol.

    With the current evidence, Sanada > Atobe confidently. But with plot power where Atobe suddenly learns a new technique then sure, anything can happen.
    However this makes EVERY discussion on PoT pointless mean nothing.
    We could say, Momoshiro/Kaidoh/Kite/Inui/Kirihara/Oshitari. Y gets a new technique that breaks ALL of Fuji's counters suddenly in the match.

    Quote Originally Posted by fdsjkl View Post
    I love how ppl on this forum post technique Y owns technique X ergo player Y wins. In PoT, there is some mid-match revelation that obseletes the godlike status of technique Y. Techniques in PoT are ephemeral.

    But whatever. If I was a betting man. I'd say that closer to the end of the series Atobe will be on the same tier as Sanada -- if he isn't already. Possibly, Tezuka (but I wouldn't bet on that one).
    We are all well aware of plot power here. Im disappointed that for your argument for Atobe to win, he will require plot power.

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