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Well instead of a match. Lets just say we look at the powers and abilities of Atobe and Sanada at THIS VERY MOMENT in time. As oppose to a match.
At this very moment in time, Sanada > Atobe without doubt. But sure within a match, with plot power Atobe could possibly handle it.
Thing is, we aint seen much of Black Aura but dont sleep on it.
I am being fair though. Nothing suggests that Atobe >>> Sanada in determination. Look at it from Sanada's view. His best friend since age 4 suddenly cant play tennis. A sport they dominated in their country together up til then. His best friend says Ill have an operation where there is a 50/50 chance I might die.
He then develops Rikkai into having a crushing law. Berating his teammates for not winning good enough even.
I think Sanada's determination is deep. In the Nationals he told off his teammates even though NOBODY dropped a single game.
I dont see where you get that Atobe is the most determined in the series or something. I dont think he necessarily more determined than Atobe. Sanada is known for his discipline and determination. So is Kaidoh, Ryoma, Kawamura. Kawamura I reckon has FAR MORE than Atobe. In real life terms, he should be dead.
Outside of plot-power, Atobe CANNOT return Rai. So... without plot-power and anticipating changes in a PoT match, Atobe wouldnt win.
Listen, if you have to use ''what ifs'' then you know yourself Atobe is weaker than Sanada.
With Atobe VS Fuji, we dont need ''what ifs''. Atobe > Fuji.
Atobe VS MOST MSers in the series lol, we dont need ''what ifs''.
But for the Top of MS World with Ryoma, Yuki, Tezuka and Sanada, you have to start going ''what if in the match something is countered--''. Bro, you know yourself now that Atobe > Sanada as it currently stands.
Unless you could spin round and tell us how Atobe overcomes Rai and then, Black Aura which is undoubtedly a stat boost.
You have a fair point, but 7-6 is not a confident defeat against an opponent who is heavily injured and had Doubled Return sealed away. <--Fact.
Atobe cannot return Rai as it stands now. <-- Fact.
Without plot-power where we ''hope'' Atobe can overcome a technique that he and most MSers simply cannot handle, Atobe cannot defeat Sanada who has Rai at his disposal.
Remember Atobe could not even return Zan without World of Ice. <-- Fact.
Atobe about to defeat Sanada with World of Ice, was against Sanada who had yet to reveal Rai to anyone except certain Rikkai members. <--Fact.
Atobe is amongst the best in the series <-- Fact.
Atobe is yet to show us a technique that can fully overcome Sanada. <-- Fact.
Atobe being shown more is due to his high-ranking in popularity lol. Not coz Konomi simply wanted to spend all his time on him. Atobe was in fact his MOST popular character so its only logical to spend lots of time on him.
Right now, did you know his the THIRD most popular character? He isnt first anymore. <-- Fact.
Just explain to me how Atobe with what he has NOW at this moment while he his getting laughed at by Ochi Tsukimitsu who isnt even serious but is all over Atobe/Niou pair with Mouri just relaxing can defeat Sanada with what Sanada has now.
---------- Post added at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
However Yukimura destroyed Ryoma w/out TMnK. He completely destroyed him. Until plot-power and TMnK arrived Ryoma was in a helpless state.
How did Atobe do better than Yukimura?? Your simply talking sh*t right now. Without a plot power moment where the audience were crying, he would have lost completely.
Ryoma's teammates were in tears during the match! Atobe fainted against a Ryoma with NO Doubled Return or SKnK.
So Atobe played a FAR weaker opponent than Yukimura. Had Yukimura faced NationalsQuarterfinals!Ryoma we would have got 6-0 Yukimura.
I accept Atobe is amazing.
Last edited by Airgrimes; June 01, 2012 at 03:32 AM.
He doesn't need TnK right now to face those. Against Sanada yeah due to BA, but he could defeat Yukimura, Atobe and Niou without Tenimuhou. He doesn't need the final door of muga to defeat them. I'm tired of hearing that to beat the strongest he needs Tenimuhou. Echizen defeated Yukimura once with Tenimuhou, but because now he sure improved a big deal, he could hit winners with just Hyakuren. I see him being able to avoid yips somehow.
And no, if Atobe can't at least be even with Sanada, there's no way he'll defeat Echizen. Sanada, for now, can hit 5 balls at the same time, Echizen can hit ten. Clearly, Echizen>Sanada. Echizen could hold his own field against Kazuya or Oni, that's what at least Mifune said: "you can't defeat those two if you don't hit 10 balls at the same time", hitting more balls than another player means some difference in skill.
Or your suggesting Yukimura hasnt improved at all since Nationals?
You see him avoiding yips somehow? Good reasoning.
Although we havent been told as to how Ryoma can overcome AK or null the effect of AK.
Irie hasnt been shown to hit 5 at a time, but are you gonna confirm he cant beat Akutsu? YOU dont know. I dont know.
So that theory isnt 100% as of yet.
Sure Yukimura improved, Ryoma also and he is way above than he was when the Nationals finished, but somehow, Ryoma breaking out of yips, it's possible. I don't think they'll work if he experienced them again, somehow, maybe due to plot power, but I don't see Yips affecting Ryoma again like before. Or score winners against him is a possibility and now chances are higher due to mountain's training.
I just see Sanada's BA stronger than Hyakuren and Saiki. Hyakuren Ryoma got a point from Yukimura, but Yukimura managed to return the shots. However, BA got an instant point and Yukimura was afraid of that aura coming again. So at least not equal, but very close to Tenimuhou. We don't have enough information, but at least, BA should be stronger than both Hyakuren and Saiki.
Last edited by LetalHawk; June 01, 2012 at 10:25 AM.
When it was revealed Echizen could hit 5 balls, the spotlight was on Echizen, Kintarou, and Sanada, who were also able to hit 5 balls. However, ever since then, the spotlight was on Echizen only, so we are ignorant of what's going on with the others. We will know for sure once they get screentime and see if they improved along with Echizen, or remained the same.
Stats and Techs are way more important.
Back to the topic, Atobe is just inmediatly below Sanada, just because Drunken Coach 's training is shown to made them improve way more than normal training.
Echizen-Yuki>Sanada>Kintarou-Atobe-Shiraishi and then the others...
But still, hitting many balls improves your skill, that's what I learned after readin the mountain chapters and with Mifune's speech. If the drunken coach said that to beat Oni or Tokugawa, you need to hit 10 balls, then is very important to hit multiple balls. However, it's ridiculous.
I think there's some confusion about that whole line about hitting ten balls at a time. It's not as complex are people make it seem. This is what Coach Mifune said:
"Just know this: Ya' can't beat Oni or Tokugawa. Those guys can hit 10 balls at once."
To which some high school gawkers add, "Right, those guys are special! Not just anyone can do it!"
Then Ryoma says "So, if we learn to hit 10 at once, we can beat those guys, right?"
He's saying that to be able to stand a chance against Oni or Tokugawa, one would need to be capable of hitting ten balls at once. It's like saying to an aspiring professional track star, "In order to stand a chance of winning the Olympics, you need to be able to run a speed under 8.5."
If you can't hit 10 balls at once, don't even think of winning.