who is stronger

[hyper_megaman]

Kabuto didn't got injured in by slash or jabs... He wasn't even in sage mode when Itachi and Sasuke attack first.

Also the very reason naruto is uninjured from the fall, because his part of the nature too.. It similar to Kabuto his also part of the nature. Im sure if kabuto fall too from that height, he would be uninjured too.

If you put Sasuke + Itachi vs Sage Mode naruto. You will see that Sasuke slash and jabs would also hurt Naruto, because naruto opponent are not nature.

Beside Naruto perfected his sage mode. Kabuto never perfected his sage mode..

yea you haven't answered my question

where did you get your conclusion that kabuto never perfected sage mode?

[Dutchy]

yea you haven't answered my question

where did you get your conclusion that kabuto never perfected sage mode?

Chapter 379 page 17 and 380 page 1 are proof enough that Frog SM users are still vulnerable to the same injuries as Kabuto. Naruto was just fortunate that Nagato wasn't trying to kill him. So while I agree that Frog Senjutsu is for powerhouse nin, it's difficult to say with any certainty whether its users are more durable that their snake counterpart.

[FANtomCore]

naruto in sage mode would beat kabuto in sage mode

but kabuto sage mode would beat jaraiya sage mode

Well that's because Jaraiya's Sage Mode was incomplete or imperfect. Kubuto's Sage Mode looks as complete as Naruto's. But I think Jaraiya's years of experience + his incomplete Sage Mode + the additional assistance of Shima and Fukasaku = either victory or atleast a draw with Kubuto's Sage Mode.

I view Naruto's Sage Mode the pinnacle Sage Mode of them all thus far so I vote Toad.

[Lemonadez]

Well that's because Jaraiya's Sage Mode was incomplete or imperfect. Kubuto's Sage Mode looks as complete as Naruto's. But I think Jaraiya's years of experience + his incomplete Sage Mode + the additional assistance of Shima and Fukasaku = either victory or atleast a draw with Kubuto's Sage Mode.

I view Naruto's Sage Mode the pinnacle Sage Mode of them all thus far so I vote Toad.

Jiraiya Isn't incomplete, He has MA+PA frog along with him..

Kabuto and Orochimaru was denied by Sage snake. So there is no Sage snake aiding Kabuto in the battle that why his Incomplete and hasn't master sage mode. Also Kabuto didn't have many experience with sage mode either, He started doing after orochimaru was killed, but he has no assistant or sage snake to help him how to become a complete sage mode. However Naruto had help with his sage mode.

So Kabuto sage mode would be stronger if he had a Sage snake to help him during his training. His very own sage technique come from experiment itself.

[ninjabot]

i'm pretty sure toad is physically stronger

naruto fell on stone spikes and broke them instead, without feeling a thing

But he certainly felt it when Nagato's wheelchair pierced a whole in his stomach with regular old spikes. And Jiraiya's arm was blown off by Asura Realm's attack, whether it was one of his missiles (there was an explosion) or his tail blade. This is two instances where someone with Sage Mode has recieved damage from an attack that wasn't overly powerful.

kabuto got injured by basic slashes and jabs

Not in Sage Mode. He got his horn chopped off, sure. But then again, that was a Kusanagi sword so it's cutting ability should be superior to regular swords even if it's not the same Kusanagi as Orochimaru's. Which it isn't.

it's unclear where kabuto's recovery comes from, or if it is attributable to sage mode at all, but kabuto's seems to revolve around speed and dexterity

No it isn't, lol. He explained it at the beginning of the fight. Not only does he have Orochimaru's regenerative abilities thanks to his DNA, but because of Karin's DNA he can also use her regenerative powers on himself too. This gives him healing abilities superior to Orochimaru.

to make an analogy,
snake sage = rogue
toad sage = warrior

I think Naruto throwing that rhino has people confused as to how his Sage Mode strength works. They see that feat and attribute it to his skin's durability. Kabuto spent his entire fight staying as far away as he could so he didn't have a chance to display physical strength of Naruto's caliber. But with that said, everything else he did was identical. From enhanced speed to sensing ability. That leads me to believe his physical strength is comperable aswell.

[Rikudou King]

Jiraiya Isn't incomplete, He has MA+PA frog along with him..

Kabuto and Orochimaru was denied by Sage snake. So there is no Sage snake aiding Kabuto in the battle that why his Incomplete and hasn't master sage mode. Also Kabuto didn't have many experience with sage mode either, He started doing after orochimaru was killed, but he has no assistant or sage snake to help him how to become a complete sage mode. However Naruto had help with his sage mode.

So Kabuto sage mode would be stronger if he had a Sage snake to help him during his training. His very own sage technique come from experiment itself.

Jiraiya's mode was incomplete, thus the reason his appearance was so toad-like.

And Kabuto wasn't denied by the Sage Snake, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to learn Sage Mode in the first place. And he doesn't need a snake to aid him in battle for it to be complete. He did, by all accounts, master Sage Mode.

[Uchiha_Blood]

I think Naruto throwing that rhino has people confused as to how his Sage Mode strength works. They see that feat and attribute it to his skin's durability. Kabuto spent his entire fight staying as far away as he could so he didn't have a chance to display physical strength of Naruto's caliber. But with that said, everything else he did was identical. From enhanced speed to sensing ability. That leads me to believe his physical strength is comperable aswell.

I believe ppl got the idea ( me included ) that Snake Mode isn't all that great physically in instances like this where Kabuto didn't do a thing even in a direct clash.
Every time Naruto in Sage Mode had a direct clash, blow against blow, he always overpowered the opponent, Kabuto enhanced even with his chakra scapels tied with Itachi.
And I doubt that Itachi has Sage Mode strength, even if knowing Kishi I would not put it past him to do something like that

[NinjaStar]

Kabuto didn't got injured in by slash or jabs... He wasn't even in sage mode when Itachi and Sasuke attack first.

Also the very reason naruto is uninjured from the fall, because his part of the nature too.. It similar to Kabuto his also part of the nature. Im sure if kabuto fall too from that height, he would be uninjured too.

If you put Sasuke + Itachi vs Sage Mode naruto. You will see that Sasuke slash and jabs would also hurt Naruto, because naruto opponent are not nature.

Beside Naruto perfected his sage mode. Kabuto never perfected his sage mode..

You can't be serious

What on earth did you hear to give you that opinion? Are you saying that naruto wouldn't drown because water is apart of nature? Or that a natural bolt of lighting wouldn't fry him? Thats just plain dumb..

[Daniel]

Sorry if I say something already stated, I didn't read all comments.

I think both versions are almost the same, the differencies that we saw are caused by the different uses the shinobi give to Sage Mode.

I say almost because Snake Sage Mode really seems to provide a lower level of strength than Toad Mode, but even here I'm not sure, this could be because unlike the Toads, Kabuto doesn't use Kawazu Kumite, ie using Sage to actively improve your taijutsu. As it was said, Kabuto coudln't "blow away" Itachi when they clashed, but later he cutted him in half, so maybe Kishi isn't being consistent here.

In all other respects they seem the same. They both increase sensing, speed, strength, endurance, power and stamina, and phisical caracteristics of it's respective animal.

The Kabuto's healing ability doesn't come from Sage Mode, but from the cells of Karin.

Kabuto's Sage Mode last longer than Naruto's, not because of a specific attribute of Snake mode, but because he has the cells of Juugo, which enable him to "naturaly" take in narutal energy while moving.

[zellkyo]

i just remembered something about them saying they were a 3 way stand off

snake > toad > slug > snake

i dont know if it also applies here

[Delbi]

I don't think they are different in any way aside from how they look and how one is able to attain that type of Sage Mode.

Naruto and Kabuto use them in entirely different ways, and it may be that natural energy reacts differently to different people. We know Naruto is a natural Sage whereas Jiraiya was not in terms of their affinity for it.

Naruto certainly showed us greater feats of strength whereas Kabuto showed greater strengths of speed...but the reason is because Kabuto was already fast to begin with, and Naruto being a brawler and having a pretty big frame was already strong to begin with...

IMO, Kabuto's Sage Mode is superior in the sense that he uses superior jutus and combined the powers of the Sound 4 and Kimi to make himself stronger. So in a sense Kabuto's is only superior to me because he put more into it whereas Naruto didn't.

[Dutchy]

I don't think they are different in any way aside from how they look and how one is able to attain that type of Sage Mode.

Naruto and Kabuto use them in entirely different ways, and it may be that natural energy reacts differently to different people. We know Naruto is a natural Sage whereas Jiraiya was not in terms of their affinity for it.

A natural sage? I don't think so. Naruto was being primed for senjutsu from the moment he started using Kyuubi chakra.

[Delbi]

A natural sage? I don't think so. Naruto was being primed for senjutsu from the moment he started using Kyuubi chakra.

False. Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi, and he has naturally large chakra reserves, that isn't something the Kyuubi gave him. He picked up on Sage Mode lightning quick regardless, something that after what seemed like at the very least 25 years Jiraiya could not master.

[hyper_megaman]

False. Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi, and he has naturally large chakra reserves, that isn't something the Kyuubi gave him. He picked up on Sage Mode lightning quick regardless, something that after what seemed like at the very least 25 years Jiraiya could not master.

could naruto actually be a genius at chakra use, just that his bodily chakra was always disrupted by the kyuubi?

in this case it showed through because natural chakra couldn't be absorbed/used by the kyuubi, and was distinct/separate from his normal chakra, hence the kyuubi couldn't disrupt it and naruto's talent in chakra moulding (comparable to hashirama/tobirama) gave him epic mastery?

one can only hope kishi finally pens it like this, or naruto will be a worthless kyuubi-dependent idiot forever

[SupremeMod]

snakes eats toad