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Thread: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

  1. #16
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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The ease at catching Naruto with Genjutsu is too great. That's pretty much the main reason. On top of that, Itachi and Kisame are both protected by Kisame's ability to absorb everything in Naruto's repertoire short of a Bijuudama, and his ability to "inject" chakra into Itachi via Samehada to restore him and heal him as the fight goes on. Itachi would be capable of using Amaterasu, Susanoo, and Tsukuyomi to his heart's content.

    The giant water dome is a big problem aswell considering Kisame can fill it with literally thousands of sharks and, no matter how fast Naruto runs, he can't outswim Kisamehada or a thousand sharks. He can extend tons of chakra hands out to try to catch them all, or make tons of clones, but then Kisame's just gonna either absorb those arms as he gets close (using Itachi's Amaterasu to put Naruto on the defensive so he can get close by hiding inside one of his 1000 sharks and leaping out at him on his blindside) or just fire a Daikoudan that devours all the clones and jutsu coming his way as it flies forward.

    And Sasuke would help to take out Kisame if he could get Naruto to do something about Itachi, because even though he can escape Tsukuyomi, it would take a considerable amount of time, which would leave him primed for a shark attack that he can't defend against due to the Tsukuyomi.

    Also, I give leadership to the ninja with the more impressive leadership/intelligence feats. So it's clearly Sasuke's team.
    He would have to catch him with Tsykuyomi, Naruto is aware of the technique and him being caught within it seems extremely unlikely. If Naruto achieves Enhanced Chakra Mode the match is over. You seem to admit that. Which is why I don't understand you giving the win to Itachi & Kisame. None of the techniques you've mentioned are likely to take him down before he is able to achieve this mode. Sasuke should be able to provide more than enough time. As such, Kisame's ability to provide chakra for Itachi is irrelevant. The battle isn't going to last long enough for him to take advantage of it. This battle comes down to a race against the clock, can Itachi & Kisame take out Naruto before he enters his enhanced mode? The answer is no.

    The ninja with more leadership feats between Naruto & Sasuke is Naruto. Sasuke leads his team of Juugo, Suigetsu, and Karin. The team got slapped around by Bee, and then failed to capture him. They then attacked the Kages, that was obviously a failure as well. Tobi is not a member of the team, and he was required to save them. All of Sasuke's accomplishments have been achieved with him going it alone. Sasuke's record as a leader is pretty terrible. Naruto's leadership during the war far exceeds anything feat of leadership Sasuke has ever shown or is likely to ever show. Sasuke is, rather annoyingly so, more intelligent than Naruto. But he's not a better leader.

  2. #17
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility
    He would have to catch him with Tsykuyomi, Naruto is aware of the technique and him being caught within it seems extremely unlikely. If Naruto achieves Enhanced Chakra Mode the match is over. You seem to admit that. Which is why I don't understand you giving the win to Itachi & Kisame. None of the techniques you've mentioned are likely to take him down before he is able to achieve this mode. Sasuke should be able to provide more than enough time. As such, Kisame's ability to provide chakra for Itachi is irrelevant. The battle isn't going to last long enough for him to take advantage of it. This battle comes down to a race against the clock, can Itachi & Kisame take out Naruto before he enters his enhanced mode? The answer is no.
    Naruto was aware of Tsukuyomi, and Genjutsu in general the last time he fought Itachi, yet never avoided eye contact. He was aware of avoiding eye contact the previous two times he got caught by Itachi aswell so... yeah. And I seriously don't think Naruto can reach that mode before he's caught with Genjutsu, sorry.

    I agree the battle won't last long enough to provide Itachi with more chakra... but that's only because Naruto would be incapacitated post haste. It's impossible for you to think up a realistic instance where he isn't Genjutsu from the get-go since we've seen how easy it is for him to succumb to it even with prior knowledge.

    Quote Quote:
    The ninja with more leadership feats between Naruto & Sasuke is Naruto. Sasuke leads his team of Juugo, Suigetsu, and Karin. The team got slapped around by Bee, and then failed to capture him. They then attacked the Kages, that was obviously a failure as well. Tobi is not a member of the team, and he was required to save them. All of Sasuke's accomplishments have been achieved with him going it alone. Sasuke's record as a leader is pretty terrible. Naruto's leadership during the war far exceeds anything feat of leadership Sasuke has ever shown or is likely to ever show. Sasuke is, rather annoyingly so, more intelligent than Naruto. But he's not a better leader.
    Not being able to overcome insurmountable odds in no way, shape, or form makes Sasuke a bad leader. Even good leaders know when they're fighting a losing battle and that there's no way to win. Being able to succeed based on a plan put together requiring team work where you are the head tactictian is leadership. Being able to move and motivate a cell to mission accomplishment despite the type of motivation used is good leadership. From putting together the perfect team based on their abilities, to making sure he can keep the team from self destructing, he had all that covered. There's literally never been an instance in the manga where Naruto was the man in charge or better yet, the RIGHT man in charge. Outside of leading everyone to where the disguised white Zetsu were, that is. And that's no more leadership than following a compass.

    If the ability to sense out opponents or hit something really, really hard was all it took to be a good leader, Naruto'd win in spades. But we know it takes more than that. From protecting Team 7's scroll by thinking up a password (and succeeding in weeding out a disguised Naruto), to choosing to give up the scroll inorder to spare the lives of his partners, Sasuke's been shown to have both the analytical mind to be a good leader, aswell as the compassion to place the team above the mission. Granted, that was old Sasuke... but the point is Sasuke's leadership feats aren't just better than Naruto's, but they blow them out of the water because he genuinely leads those under his employ.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    How is sasuke a better leader when he tries to kill his team mates whenever he seems them unnecessary? Sorry but I'd follow narutos indomitable will to never give up than sasuke, whose pretty much insane


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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    That happen once, which still wouldn't change the main point of a leader, being able to come up with a plan and lead others with it. For all of Naruto's strengths, he's not cut out to be a leader, as he's someone who jumps straight into the fire whether there's a plan or not and has a habit of attempting to do everything himself despite advice otherwise. His current actions with Kirabi is prefect proof, as Kirabi's the one who came up with the plans and tactics when they needed them.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    I disagree. Sasuke has everything that Itachi says one need to beat his Tsukuyomi, plus he stronger and better eyes. I find it very hard to believe that Sasuke couldn't beat Tsukuyomi.
    Doesn't guarantee he'll escape Tsukuyomi though. It just guarantees he has a better chance of escaping Tsukuyomi. Itachi made it easy enough for Sasuke to escape Tsukuyomi.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    I can see them lose only against ET Madara ( too OP ) and team Tsuchi, since Muu, Oonoki and Deidara have attacks too strong to withstand even for Naruto and Sasuke.

    I can see the fight go both ways against Kisame and Itachi since even with Chakra Mode Naruto was too fast for Kisame, and Sasuke is a good match for Itachi unless the latter uses Izanami, after which he would lose an eye and become an easy prey for Naruto.
    Even if Kisame fuses, Naruto in taijutsu would downright destroy him in both super Chakra Mode and Sage Mode, and if he goes Sage Mode Kisame would risk turning into stone. Nothing forces Naruto to be always in super Chakra Mode.
    Also I doubt Kisame can absorb a Bijuudama, Samehada was able to absorb only 6 or 7 tails worth of chakra of Version 1, which is <<<<<<<<<< in quantity, density and everything else of Kyuubi's Bijuudama.
    Hell Kisame's chest was blown open from a Lariat

    Also Jiraiya and Nagato would prove difficult, since, if Jiraiya sets up Frog Song they both lose, or at least Sasuke ( Bee did say that perfect Jinchuuriki are immune to genjutsus ), and even Naruto can't withstand Nagato and Jiraiya alone.
    Shinra Tensei would repel anything Naruto and Sasuke would throw at Jiraiya in preparation, but both Sasuke and Naruto can kill Jiraiya 1 on 1 if somehow they manage to divide him from Nagato, which is possible since both would survive against Nagato long enough on their own, me thinks.

    The rest they stomp, they cover the other's weakness and are an overly haxed duo in their own right, hell even if Naruto was in Sage Mode I would go with the same outcome

  7. #22
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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Doesn't guarantee he'll escape Tsukuyomi though. It just guarantees he has a better chance of escaping Tsukuyomi. Itachi made it easy enough for Sasuke to escape Tsukuyomi.
    Yea that pretty much guarantee that Sasuke can break it. Sasuke was practically begging Itachi to use Tsukuyomi on him when he just had Regular Sharingan. He was more then confident that he could beat Tsukuyomi back then, to think that he couldn't break it now after his eyes evolved twice and his hate is off the charts is not very wise.

  8. #23
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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Naruto was aware of Tsukuyomi, and Genjutsu in general the last time he fought Itachi, yet never avoided eye contact. He was aware of avoiding eye contact the previous two times he got caught by Itachi aswell so... yeah. And I seriously don't think Naruto can reach that mode before he's caught with Genjutsu, sorry.

    I agree the battle won't last long enough to provide Itachi with more chakra... but that's only because Naruto would be incapacitated post haste. It's impossible for you to think up a realistic instance where he isn't Genjutsu from the get-go since we've seen how easy it is for him to succumb to it even with prior knowledge.



    Not being able to overcome insurmountable odds in no way, shape, or form makes Sasuke a bad leader. Even good leaders know when they're fighting a losing battle and that there's no way to win. Being able to succeed based on a plan put together requiring team work where you are the head tactictian is leadership. Being able to move and motivate a cell to mission accomplishment despite the type of motivation used is good leadership. From putting together the perfect team based on their abilities, to making sure he can keep the team from self destructing, he had all that covered. There's literally never been an instance in the manga where Naruto was the man in charge or better yet, the RIGHT man in charge. Outside of leading everyone to where the disguised white Zetsu were, that is. And that's no more leadership than following a compass.

    If the ability to sense out opponents or hit something really, really hard was all it took to be a good leader, Naruto'd win in spades. But we know it takes more than that. From protecting Team 7's scroll by thinking up a password (and succeeding in weeding out a disguised Naruto), to choosing to give up the scroll inorder to spare the lives of his partners, Sasuke's been shown to have both the analytical mind to be a good leader, aswell as the compassion to place the team above the mission. Granted, that was old Sasuke... but the point is Sasuke's leadership feats aren't just better than Naruto's, but they blow them out of the water because he genuinely leads those under his employ.
    And if Naruto were alone, I might give it to Itachi & Kisame. But the simple reality is between Sasuke, who is more than capable of keeping Itachi busy for a while, and Naruto's ability to summon large numbers of clones, Naruto would be provided with more than enough time to enter his enhanced mode.

    Sasuke, Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu against Bee doesn't qualify as insurmountable odds. And the battle against the Kages may have been that, but I'd say a good leader wouldn't put his team into a virtually impossible conflict that was completely avoidable. Sasuke's work during the Chunin exam was impressive. However, as you say, that was an entirely different Sasuke. New Sasuke is, as has been pointed out, pretty much insane.

  9. #24
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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post

    Sasuke, Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu against Bee doesn't qualify as insurmountable odds. And the battle against the Kages may have been that, but I'd say a good leader wouldn't put his team into a virtually impossible conflict that was completely avoidable. Sasuke's work during the Chunin exam was impressive. However, as you say, that was an entirely different Sasuke. New Sasuke is, as has been pointed out, pretty much insane.
    the main problem was two thing :

    1- they think Bee is a normal host ( not prefect one )
    2- original plan was attacking Danzo after the summit , but Zetsu back stab them and ...

    about Karin , well if you think about it carfully , if Danzo could use KA on Tobi or even Sasuke then at least both Sasuke and Karin would get screw up .... the real problem was after that ( And why Kabuto could use Karin ability to heal his body but Karin couldn't do it for herself !? well , another question from Kishi )

    ...............................

    some group like Itachi and Kisame have chance to defeat Sasuke/Naruto group ....

    Shall we consider Naruto as the main character here !?
    خداحافظ

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Yea that pretty much guarantee that Sasuke can break it. Sasuke was practically begging Itachi to use Tsukuyomi on him when he just had Regular Sharingan. He was more then confident that he could beat Tsukuyomi back then, to think that he couldn't break it now after his eyes evolved twice and his hate is off the charts is not very wise.
    Itachi gave Sasuke a way to escape Tsukuyomi, though. As far as we know, Sasuke never had the physical pain torture like Kakashi did, just mental torture seeing his clan die over and over. Sasuke may be able to get out of Tsukuyomi, but he's probably the only one who can.


    Kisame was able to tank the bijuu mode speed punch and still keep running. I think it'll take Naruto a lot more than Sage Mode and Kyuubi Mode punches to keep Kisame down.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Sasuke was getting his eyes plucked out, that may not be on the level of pain Kakashi receive, but is definitely not a 'walk in the park'.

    I think every known Uchiha can break tsukuyomi, like Shisui, Tobi, Madara along with Sasuke. They all have the requirements and more.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Itachi said : you can't cast genjutsu on someone that uses the same eye ....

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c587/4.html
    خداحافظ

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Everyone has to remember that, regardless of the illusion one suffers under Tsukuyomi, the mental anguish of the Genjutsu itself comes from days of torture. Itachi may have only ripped out Sasuke's eye, but that excruciating pain lasted for practically a day or more inside of Sasuke's mind. Sure Kakashi endured 3 days of being stabbed over and over, but that's only because he didn't break out before hand.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Everyone has to remember that, regardless of the illusion one suffers under Tsukuyomi, the mental anguish of the Genjutsu itself comes from days of torture. Itachi may have only ripped out Sasuke's eye, but that excruciating pain lasted for practically a day or more inside of Sasuke's mind. Sure Kakashi endured 3 days of being stabbed over and over, but that's only because he didn't break out before hand.
    I think Sasuke broke out of Tsukuyomi mid-illusion, the whole "Sharingan eye being enhanced by Cursed Seal thingy", when the image broke.
    Makes you wonder why Itachi's Tsukuyomi, in that only instance, didn't invert the color like any other occasions though.
    Yet Itachi repeated time and time again that a pureblood Uchiha can broke through Tsukuyomi, so despite the fact that we never know when Itachi speaks the truth, we can be sure that, in this single instance, he was being truthful

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    Itachi said : you can't cast genjutsu on someone that uses the same eye ....

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c587/4.html
    I believe he was talking about the 3-tomoe Sharingan, since not only normal Uchihas usually didn't have a Mangekyou ( and even if they did, not everyone had a genjutsu eye ), but also there are genjutsu like Koto Amatsukami that a Sharingan can't broke through.

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    Re: Naruto & Sasuke run the gauntlet...

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Everyone has to remember that, regardless of the illusion one suffers under Tsukuyomi, the mental anguish of the Genjutsu itself comes from days of torture. Itachi may have only ripped out Sasuke's eye, but that excruciating pain lasted for practically a day or more inside of Sasuke's mind. Sure Kakashi endured 3 days of being stabbed over and over, but that's only because he didn't break out before hand.
    I don' tthink that pain lasted for a day in Sasuke's mind. It doesn't look like Itachi was playing with time or not that severe, so the pain would have been in realistic time - from the tiem Itachi ripped out his eyes to Sasuke breaking out.

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