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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
but a bit more on topic, I suspect it's gonna be near the end otherwise the title would go void.
---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 AM ----------
The Shou fight was 100% plot. Kenichi only "won" because the plot demanded. Afterwards the author retconned the level of strength Kenichi showed in that fight.
As for the topic, Kenichi hasn't even trained for two years. He'll probably be top-tier by the time he graduates high-school, so when he's ~18ish.
The manga will end with Kenichi beating the Elder's son or something along these lines. This is the manga direction. Only Kenichi has the power to change people and he does that through his fists. Chojin knows, please think carefully.
I think the manga will be quite long. And I believe it won't end with Kenichi beating all the Yomi as there are also Atlanti and it seems that Kenichi will also fight them. And I suppose that he will also become able to fight low-level Masters after he defeats all the Yomi and Atlanti. Also it might occur that there will apear another group of strong disciples (maybe from China or other country).
BNut I believe that by the end of the manga Kenichi will at least become low-level Masster.
P.S. Remember the phrase Akisame said to Kenichi:"You have no other option, but to become a Master. You've started a route and it's a route on falling into becoming a Master"
Well, its not like a single yomi so far has shown something even remotely close to master level. Any of them would have been fodder to a master class or an expert class on their own and that much has not changed so far.
As for atlanti, I don't think kenichi will necessarily fight all of them. The shinpaku alliance is going to get some action here. Takeda is the disciple of a master class, he is bound to get some action here IMO.
After seeing mius dad seems to still be a good guy to some extent i just dont think he'll make a good "final boss" ogata seems like the most likely final master he was the first super bad guy introduced and is probably the most diabolical of all the masters we've seen thus far jenezad was up there but i doubt he was as conniving as ogata just sadistic
I believe Kenichi will become a Master and that's unavoidable. Especially since during the last Arcs his Masters continue telling him that there is no way out of his route to falling down in the World of Masters, so it deffinetly shows that he will become one. The question is when. I do believe that maybe by the end of the manga or maybe even a bit earlier he will become a Master.
Also about Yomi... How come they can't challenge a low-level Masters? If we remember on Despair Island Fortuna was taken down by Shinpaku Alliance. Of course he was a low level Master, but he still was one! And he was taken down even without Kenichi and Miu and most of Shinpaku Aliance was beaten up pretty much before the fight. And I believe everyone here agrees that Yomi are far above Shinpaku Alliance, especiallu after what we've seen in their fight against Shou and in the last fight against Lugh...
So it's not that impossible for Kenichi to become at least low-level Master before the end of the story. Ia also depends on Elder as he can teach Kenichi like half of his 108 Superhuman moves and that will easily make Ken-chan a low-level Master Class, cause just his physical capacities and each Elder's tech made him capable of taking down Yomi who are the strongest in low-level Expert class, so I do believe it's not that impossible for Kenichi to get considerably stronger with Elder's moves.
Well, taking in consideration what we have seen so far I don't honestly see how kenichi would reach the high end of expert class by the end of the manga. Neither miu or kenichi are even close to the high end of expert class and even then their combined efforts barely cut it to defeat someone like that. Kenichi even gets consistently the fodder treatment from miu.... The master class is something so far out there that even in the current scenarios it doesn't seem like it is possible for him to get there within the mid term. I would think that kenichi will become a master in his own right once he gets to 18 or something years old. Even the entire shinpaku alliance could barely hold their ground against a fodder master class and it was obvious that the master politician could have easily killed all of them and at that time they even had miu with them.
The thing is that you tend to forget how weak and useless Kenichi was just about one year ago and now he can take any Yomi and win against most of them, not talking about Lugh, Kajima or Berserker as we don't know the extent of their power, but still when Kenichi learns just one move from Elder he already becomes way stronger than before and if he learns like 8-10 Elder's special moves like Seikuken, then he will deffinetly be at least at the level on which was that Tanaka guy who wants to kill Kensei and he seemed to be considerably close to low Master level.
Also we should take in consideration that Kenichi never fights serious. At least he never fights at his full power. The only time he actually unleashed his full power was when he was unconcious against Kano Shou and then he showed his real power and polished skills. If he can more or less bring out his current full power I do believe he can take Miu or any Yomi and at least tie with them in one on one battle.
And if he gets a low-level Master by 18 years old, then it's not that far as he seems to be only 2 years younger, so it's quite possible for him to do it by this age, especially since his opponents tend to become considerably stronger day by day, so he also grows faster.
I don't know if I posted on this thread or not, but remember what's the title of this manga? History's strongest "disciple" kenichi. I find it incredibly hard to believe Kenichi will still be a disciple of Ryozanpaku while he ascends to master class status. Heck, Kenichi may not even ascend out of the expert class by the end of this manga. There's no way Kenichi will become a master in this manga. Perhaps in a spinoff or sequel manga that possibility would be more likely.
I believe Ogata Isshinsai was already around Master Level when he became disciple of Ryuozanpaku. Of course he wasn't an oficial disciple like Kenichi, but he learned quite alot of the moves from Elder and other Masters.
And about Kenichi... well during all the manga and especially the last chapters his Masters keep telling him that it's inevitable and he will continue to fall in the path to become Master, so I believe he will become at least low-level Master by the end of the manga. And obviously it doesn't seems to go any way close to its end. It already lasted more than a year for Kenichi, so it's even less than 2 years for him to become 18 and going along with his progress rate he can become a low level Master like Fortuna by 18. Especially if Elder teaches him like 8-10 of his 108 special moves.
If ogaata was master class at the time then he would not have been able to partake in the disciple fighting aspect of the battle back then though. If the ryozampaku guys meant for him to be the first disciple then he would have had to fight the yomi disciples at the time.
Now, if kenichi is maintaining the growth rate he is supposed to fight and reaching master class was within the realm of possibilities within the short or mid run then he would already be immensely stronger than any disciple. Remember his second fight with boris? Kenichi goes on about how boris can't defeat him now because he became much stronger only to have boris pretty much prove he also became much stronger during the time they didn't see each other. At the moment kenichi does have an insane growth rate however it is by no means enough for him to outclass his yomi peers. Miu has a significantly greater growth rate than kenichi (she even seems to have increased the gap between them recently) and even then she is nowhere near actual master class level.
You said it yourself. In this manga everyone is getting stronger at the same moment, noone stops in their progress. But it doesn't mean that Ken-chan won't become a Master sooner or later. It just shows that anyone can become Master at some point as all of them grow.
Also I can't agree that Kenichi's growth is lower than Miu or other disciples. A year before (or a year and a half, cause I'm a bit lost in the timeline) Kenichi was weaker than an average high school student, while now he is among the strongest disciples, so how come his growth rate isn't the most impressive for now? I do believe that his Masters keep telling him that he isn't a talented one only because they don't want to praise him as they fear it might worsen his progress. The guy literaly managed to take down several guys who were training and fighting their entire life under Masters who are among the strongest in the World. So of course the same Miu is still better than Kenichi, but it's only because she was fighting and training her entire life and also all the members of her family were martial artists. It's her life and lineage, so of course she is still better with it. I also won't agree that she is too fat from Kenichi. Kenichi isn't serious most of the time. He also doesn't show mostly anything against girls and even against guys he doesn't fight at his best. Only several times in the manga he unleashed his full power and that was, when he was uncouncious. Especially against Kano Shou. He was quite impressed on how strong Kenichi actually is, when he is uncouncious. He stated that Kenichi's careing heart renders him from showing his true strength as a fighter.
Eventually I believe Kenichi will surpass Miu as this is manga about History's strongest disciple and well, it's Kenichi.
Something that can never be argued I 100% agree. I hope if this manga is a bit like (Tough) that part 1 ends soon with the disciple side of the story. Or if that's just the series as a whole which won't show him becoming a master until the after story that's okay too. The manga as a whole currently needs to tie up it's ends with this war that's coming soon.