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Thread: Naruto 590 Discussion

  1. #526
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    According to Ebisu, spiritual energy is only half of what chakra is. Chakra is molded from a combination of physical stamina and spiritual will. If the Uchiha can close their eyes, clench really hard, and squirt out a purely “spirit energy” fuelled Susanoo then why can’t Tsunade flex her muscles and give birth to a “physical energy” man? But that doesn’t happen. Only Uchiha seem to be able to do that. Why? It makes no sense.
    @INVADER
    this may help...your"physical energy"summon/beast...thanks to
    dutchy...ryr...and blackjack...
    their quotes on this matter:
    Quote Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dutchy
    I get the impression that Gedo Mazo once belonged to Hashirama, and now that it is contracted to Tobi I get impression that he, Madara and Zetsu are responsible for Shodaime Hokage's demise. That or he took himself out using a forbidden jutsu.
    Originally Posted by Ryr
    I think you brought up an interesting point, because I remember the chains of the Gedo Mazo jutsu are exactly the same as Kushina's jutsu. So it could be a Uzumaki or Senju exclusive technique.
    Originally Posted by blackjack612
    Interesting theory. Until now, I kind of assumed that Hashirama died from natural causes. I mean, the guys main jutsu revolves around converting chakra into a source of life and accelerating the growth of plants. There has to be a limit to how often one can use such a skill before they reach his or her body's limit. He wasn't exactly using Yamato levels of wood style. The few glimpses we've gotten of him using the technique, he goes for broke and creates vast forests. I have a hard time seeing anyone other than Madara take out Hashirama.
    gedo mazu may be what you are looking for...
    Look around you carefully. Strain your eyes at the darkness around us... At the darkness around me. You said anywhere but here. This is where, here, at the border. Gathered by the winds. Those who have met their final destiny hanging between jealousy and regret. Those who failed, swept together here. You say it doesnt matter where. If you follow me, this is where you'll go. This is your eden.

  2. #527
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    who is tobi.
    madara create zetzu and make him to make a clone of madara. with the same chackra and jutsu. and experience.
    thats why when naruto ask him, who he was, he say, im no one.


    wow madara is going to go..but hey remember when he did the meteor. in the whole war he was the one who kill the most ninja.....but can you guys tell me who those ninja was...also 1 of those ninja choice to save a naruto clone instead of a real ninja. wow soo bad. even naruto tell him. why did you save me. im just a clone.

    maybe he was like. F, those fodder ninja, you are the main character here.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

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  4. #528
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    I took multiple people to stop Madara's fire jutsu. It's likely Tobirama and Kisame could've stopped it on their own. That's my point. The scale is not as easily done by everyone. Merely making water can probably be done by any suiton user. Also about Mei, I never said Tobirama and Kisame are the only people to be able to. I said there aren't many people that can do it in the amount Kisame and Tobirama can. I'd expect a Mizukage is a person that could. That's why I left my statement open for those cases.
    Madara's fire technique wasn't exactly ordinary. But the point is, that the feat that Tobirama was noted for, using the Water Encampment Wall technique without any water around, is something we've seen from various ninjas since then, including Kakashi. It wasn't the amount, but instead the actual technique/technique of B-rank.

  5. #529
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    madara create zetzu and make him to make a clone of madara. with the same chackra and jutsu. and experience.
    thats why when naruto ask him, who he was, he say, im no one.
    everyone keeps saying tobi is a creation...then why is it that him and madara on different pages/paths.
    i think there is a man behind the mask...and not just some clone that's been living for 15yrs plus...ridiculous.

    that"no one"speach was the same as kabuto's...only different circumstances...this guy has something to do with nagato and konoha invading the whirlpool.i just have this feeling...with danzou being behind the uchiha massacre,i can see him being involved if not directly...in the uzumaki/whirlpool extermination.
    tobi may be a child through madara and an uzumaki...once again...who tended to madara after VoTE and why did he live so long afterwards...uzumakish...
    Look around you carefully. Strain your eyes at the darkness around us... At the darkness around me. You said anywhere but here. This is where, here, at the border. Gathered by the winds. Those who have met their final destiny hanging between jealousy and regret. Those who failed, swept together here. You say it doesnt matter where. If you follow me, this is where you'll go. This is your eden.

  6. #530
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    To be fair, we don't know that Tobi is working a different path then Madara would have wanted. Madara figured that starting a world war was something Tobi would do, though he wasn't exactly sure what and assumed that things weren't going according to plan. We do know that the plan wasn't going right, with Nagato using his ability on Konoha and Sasuke not getting the Hachibi. The basic Moon Eye plan could still be Madara's original plan.

  7. #531
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The bigger the jutsu, the more chakra necessary, that's his point. You can't claim that they're equal in chakra to Tobirama for being able to make a smaller version of a jutsu he can perform. It's the other way around. Both Kakashi and Darui used less impressive versions of the same jutsu.
    Ok lets compare the sizes of those jutsu's performed by each individual
    Tobirama: http://www.mangareader.net/93-125-4/...apter-120.html
    Kakashi: http://www.mangareader.net/93-341-13...apter-336.html
    Darui: http://www.mangareader.net/93-29786-...apter-461.html
    Fodder nin: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/5

    granted fodder nins are kinda less explanatory since they had to joined up because of that HUGE katon ... but the thing is that they were able to produce it without the water, which is what was amazing for that ANBU guy (in Shodai, Nidaime and Sandaime fight) in the first place (He said to be able to cast such a high level sution in place with no water - high level meaning B level jutsu) ... and now everyone can do it ...

    Talking in general to all:

    Just accept it people, Kishi at that time was just different, his jutsu weren't that grandiose, many characters hadn't abilities they have now (Hashirama, Tobirama), hell not even all the characters even existet at that time (Oonoki) for Kishi to be able to say that Hiruzen at 70 was stronger than Oonoki at 75 (my guess)

    Thus saying that Hiruzen is stronger now based on what we've seen from him is stronger than any current kage is simply false.

    Kishi is evolving, his whole manga is the proof of his many contradictions, and evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    I didn't say no one else could do it. I said there aren't many people that can do it. Also, you have to look at the amount. Due to Kisame's large chakra pool, he could basically make a huge lake of water from his chakra. Kakashi, with his low chakra pool, would not be able to create a body of water that big. The bigger the amount of water, the more chakra you'll need to control it.

    I took multiple people to stop Madara's fire jutsu. It's likely Tobirama and Kisame could've stopped it on their own. That's my point. The scale is not as easily done by everyone. Merely making water can probably be done by any suiton user. Also about Mei, I never said Tobirama and Kisame are the only people to be able to. I said there aren't many people that can do it in the amount Kisame and Tobirama can. I'd expect a Mizukage is a person that could. That's why I left my statement open for those cases.
    I don't think that is the case since that fire jutsu was most likely A level... also see my post above - ANBU guy was talking about doing such s jutsu in the first place
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  8. #532
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Well, I wasn't trying to make a specific technical argument. I was just giving an example. Let's say the genetic trait is "blue eyes" and Harashima has "blue eyes". His kids don't have "blue eyes", but the genetics are in there. After 10 generations, Kushina and Minato give birth to Naruto, and viola - Naruto has "blue eyes". Now swap out "blue eyes" with "Senju" and that's what I'm trying to say here. I'm not saying that Naruto is a 100% genetic carbon copy of Harashima or the 6 Path Sage. I'm just saying that whatever genetic characteristic it is that makes a Senju a "Senju" happens to have popped up good and strong in Naruto to the point where he is more powerful than Kushina, or any other "Senju" decendant to come down the pike since Harashima. And it may very well be that it runs so strong in him that he is even MORE "Senju" than the 1st Hokage was in the sense that he is closest thing to the son of the 6 Path Sage than anyone since the ACTUAL son of the 6 Path Sage. Same thing for Sauske.
    I understand the concept. however why bother going into it if you don't actually expect kishimoto to use genetics to explain naruto's inheritance? if kishimoto really wants to make naruto a senju by bloodline, the most likely think that he'd do is say that namikazes are actually senjus.

    however the most sensible thing to do would be stick with will of fire angle and non-blood-related model of senju clan. as i said before senjus are not necessarily a blood-relation based clan like uchihas. anyone can be a senju(konoha nowadays) as long as he has the will of fire. so is it really necessary to make naruto 'senju naruto' by name/by descendance to actually be the inheritor of will of fire and the true successor of younger son of rikudo? i don't think so.

    so basically my point is its not any genetical characteristic that made senjus senju(the inheritors of younger son) as you suggested...rather its the will of fire? and naruto possessing the will of fire as strong as hashirama(or may be even more) is what makes him closest thing younger son of 6 paths (plus his uzumaki linage and kyuubi yang chakra)

    ---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    This definition of what is a "Senju" is so arbitrary, so capricious, and so idiomatic that is seems completely to be completely random, or based on pure whimsy. There's a lot of Senju around based on what the manga has said, but according to you NONE of them are 'actually' Senju. It would be helpful if you supplied some sort of framework explained exactly what criterion you have for what a Senju is - if indeed you have any. You say that people with Senju DNA aren't Senju... You say that people with Senju ABILITIES aren't Senju... You say that people who are DESCENDANTS of Senju aren't Senju. So who IS a Senju? Next thing you will be saying that Tsunade isn't a Senju, the 3rd wasn't a Senju, and that the 1st Hokage wasn't Senju either. :boggle:
    Dunno, but maybe i can help with the definition. How about "senjus are those who hold the family name of senju?":P Since you are so insisting on comparing the senju side with uchiha side,this should make perfect sense.

    then the known senjus would be...Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama.

    even tsunade is not a pure senju...which probably why she was never called as Senju Tsunade.

    however we've come to know of a defining element of senju(aside from their name) which is will of fire. take a look at this link:"today senju's will of fire will die." and at the present day, its konoha who holds this same element...will of fire. So its not necessary to be a 'genetical senju' or 'senju by bloodline'. in fact senju clan of forest were a clan which composed of ppl without blood relation. which is why to be the successor of younger son of rikudo, its not necessary that naruto must be a senju by blood line...having the will of fire is enough.



    Quote Quote:
    Yes I did. You just are denying it. That page was clear as a bell. Naruto is Senju, the next manifestation of the ongoing 'curse' of battle between Hatred/Will of Fire and Uchiha/Senju - just as Sauske is the opposite. You can deny it if you wish, but in the end I will be vindicated because I'm right. Believe it or not. But if it makes you feel better, I'll acknowledge that at this point in time there is still the remote possibility that it might not be the case. However, if Naruto is NOT Senju then I'll eat all of my large collection of leather Concho hats.
    In fact, if you add the link that i've given with the page you are talking about...its clear that Tobi is not saying Naruto is senju in the sense that he has genetic traits,or descendance from senju clan(as with senju tobiram and hashirama)...rather because he has "senju's will of fire"...something which has been passed on to the all ppl of konoha,regardless of their descendance.

    So yeah, probably...naruto is not a senju (by descendance), or else we'll have to say everyone of village konoha is a senju since they have inherited will of fire. However naruto's will of fire, his inheritance is strong in him that it makes him closest to younger son, which is why finishing him is tantamount to finishing off senju's will of fire...and he's a worthy successor of senju/uchiha feud.

    so my overall perspective would be...senjus had 2 kind of successors: 1. successors by descendance...who bore the family name of Senju(senju hashirama and senju tobirama)...the Senjus 2. successors by inheritance...all those who inherited will of fire, presently modern day konoha. Group 1 ppl are the Senjus, while the group 2 ppl despite being not Senjus, are the successors of Senjus...which is why younger son vs elder son rivalry evolved through senju vs uchiha to ultimately konoha vs uchiha. Which explains why Naruto is compared with Senju Hashirama, is said to have Will of Fire as strong as a pure genetical Senju(since Will of Fire is not limited by descendance) and is the worthy opponent of Uchiha sasuke, the successor of elder brother as the successor of younger brother.
    Last edited by ashher; June 27, 2012 at 02:03 AM.

  9. #533
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner FANtomCore's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    So Madara avoids the Endo Tensei release simply by undoing it himself. Geeze, how the heck did he know how to do that, even Tobi didn't know much about Endo Tensei. So Madara pretty much knows everything there is to know, wth, on top of that he confirmed an Endo Tensei resurrected comes with unlimited chakra and regeneration, so he can probably use Inzangi and Inzagmi unlimited times, and summon another 25 Susanoo clones with no ill effect. That's just crazy, at this point, he could only be defeated with the 4th Hokage's jutsu or if Madara gets emotional and causes himself to be undone which I seriously doubt. This guy is too much.

  10. #534
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Question Re: Naruto 590 Discussion / 591 Predictions

    madara is staying?? so bad.........

    but i have a strong feeling that the sage of six path sons are the founder of uchiha and uzumaki clan.... because madara gain his rinnegan before his death and nagato who tobi said that he come from uzumaki clan........and just a guess... maybe the first hokage became that strong because of his wife lady mito.. i remembered kabuto that uzumaki clan has something about long life.. dont you think??

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