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Thread: Bleach 496 Discussion

  1. #226
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Zaraki could give them plenty of trouble. I wont criticize the captain using bankai. What else they could have done against an enemy so strong? I was thinking, can it be possible that the medallion / device could store or steal one bankai only? I have no clue how the thing works but I am just assuming or rather hoping it is the case as I suspected. Don't know what difference can it make. Quincy numbers must be higher than the captains with bankai.

  2. #227
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    Zaraki could give them plenty of trouble. I wont criticize the captain using bankai. What else they could have done against an enemy so strong? I was thinking, can it be possible that the medallion / device could store or steal one bankai only? I have no clue how the thing works but I am just assuming or rather hoping it is the case as I suspected. Don't know what difference can it make. Quincy numbers must be higher than the captains with bankai.
    Makes sense to me that the five potentials could be Kurosaki family Isshin and Ichigo, Urahaaha Yoruichi and not sure weather to put Yammotto as one due to Stein Ritter's Emperor pretty much wanting the other arm, so i'm saying Zaraki..... considering his 'potential'

    I ain't going to say why i think this but i have an assumption as to why it could be what i think it is
    Spoiler show

  3. #228
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Sal's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    I was actually disappointed by this chapter. The move SS captains made made absolutely no sense, and devalues them greatly. For all their military might and tactics (even previously displayed ones) this felt like a decision an 8 year old would make.

    First off: Soi fon didn't even like using her bankai as it totally inhibits her usual fighting style. She only used it in an exceptional case after her shikai proved uneffective (only due to not being able to touch barragan). It makes no sense to me for her to open up to an opponent of unknown strengths/abilities/weaknesses! with her bankai, while in FULL knowledge that it will most likely be 'sealed'; however having no idea of possible side effects. Say sealing bankai also inhibits shikai in the process, or perhaps converting some of that power for own use (Yeah nobody saw this one coming? come on man..)

    Then Byakuya, okay, he might have popped his bankai normally. But with his usually strategic and calm mind, I find it unfitting for him to use it whilst knowing the enemy will seal it. Sure the idea is ok, but I'll come back to that later.
    Now what I don't feel is that he even needed to use his bankai at this moment; and maybe not even against these particular opponents at all. He utterly pwnt 2 of them at once, with his shikai. (ok mostly on a tactics level) He caught the scary b* off guard and punctured her blood skin stuff. It didn't look like he put all of his power into that, so I'm assuming he can dish out more damage. And the other guy (or both even) was completely oblivious to the damage byakuya did to the floor, paying no attention to it. Now I'm not saying he could have defeated them like this, but it sure didn't look like he couldn't hold out for a while either. Never mind renji being there as well.


    Now for the real kicker. Ok, their reasoning as to let a bankai get sealed in the presence of more people to observe is fairly sound. But did they really have to pop it all at the same time..? I remember in the SS arc, they used butterflies and kidou to communicate important data quickly. Now how about they would have let ONE or maybe TWO people use bankai and get it sealed (yea I'm looking at you hitsu-bankai-happy-gaya). Observe what happens (and oh dear they had an ace up their sleeve who would have thought!) and relay that to the others.

    It's like suddenly SS lost its tactical view and became like HM arc ichigo: 'fighting = bankai'. Whatever happened to kidou, or shikai, or using wits..


    No this wasn't a good chapter for SS. It makes them look like a juvenile bunch of power happy kids that don't know how to control their new toys, instead of the multi-thousand year old law-institute it's supposed to be.

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  5. #229
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner SQuiZeR's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    I wonder before Gotei 13 who were protecting the King against such dangers?After all, we all know that Gotei 13 has been around for 1000 years. And it is too naive to think souls without bankai or dangerous enemies like VR didn't exist before Gotei 13. And also wanna see what might make the royal guards so special. I mean Kyoraku and Ukitake are badass and still not the royal guards. I don't ignore the fact that they might not have wanted to be royal guards but still can't help wondering the royal guards. Hope Kubo will be able to make it proper for squad 0 to be awesome enough, though

  6. #230
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal View Post
    I was actually disappointed by this chapter. The move SS captains made made absolutely no sense, and devalues them greatly. For all their military might and tactics (even previously displayed ones) this felt like a decision an 8 year old would make.

    First off: Soi fon didn't even like using her bankai as it totally inhibits her usual fighting style. She only used it in an exceptional case after her shikai proved uneffective (only due to not being able to touch barragan). It makes no sense to me for her to open up to an opponent of unknown strengths/abilities/weaknesses! with her bankai, while in FULL knowledge that it will most likely be 'sealed'; however having no idea of possible side effects. Say sealing bankai also inhibits shikai in the process, or perhaps converting some of that power for own use (Yeah nobody saw this one coming? come on man..)

    Then Byakuya, okay, he might have popped his bankai normally. But with his usually strategic and calm mind, I find it unfitting for him to use it whilst knowing the enemy will seal it. Sure the idea is ok, but I'll come back to that later.
    Now what I don't feel is that he even needed to use his bankai at this moment; and maybe not even against these particular opponents at all. He utterly pwnt 2 of them at once, with his shikai. (ok mostly on a tactics level) He caught the scary b* off guard and punctured her blood skin stuff. It didn't look like he put all of his power into that, so I'm assuming he can dish out more damage. And the other guy (or both even) was completely oblivious to the damage byakuya did to the floor, paying no attention to it. Now I'm not saying he could have defeated them like this, but it sure didn't look like he couldn't hold out for a while either. Never mind renji being there as well.


    Now for the real kicker. Ok, their reasoning as to let a bankai get sealed in the presence of more people to observe is fairly sound. But did they really have to pop it all at the same time..? I remember in the SS arc, they used butterflies and kidou to communicate important data quickly. Now how about they would have let ONE or maybe TWO people use bankai and get it sealed (yea I'm looking at you hitsu-bankai-happy-gaya). Observe what happens (and oh dear they had an ace up their sleeve who would have thought!) and relay that to the others.

    It's like suddenly SS lost its tactical view and became like HM arc ichigo: 'fighting = bankai'. Whatever happened to kidou, or shikai, or using wits..


    No this wasn't a good chapter for SS. It makes them look like a juvenile bunch of power happy kids that don't know how to control their new toys, instead of the multi-thousand year old law-institute it's supposed to be.
    I think the issue at hand here revolves mostly around the fact that 99% of the power held by the gotei 13 is held by the captains, 0.99% is held by the vice captains and the remaining 0.01% is held by virtually the remaining several thousand shinigami. Now, bankai has been said to raise a shinigami's fighting capacity by a factor of 10 times (note that I did not say reiatsu, just the words yoruichi used). Now, math alone would suggest that the mere inability of the captains to use bankai against an enemy which even the prideful byakuya admits he needs bankai means that the vast majority of the power of the 13 squads is being outright taken out of the equation. Its not like shinigami have the option to set up kido traps and other sort of thing in the sereitei either. The vast majority of kido users are bound to be either useless or too weak to make a kido work against a strong enemy and we have seen captains are usually to busy to set up such traps. So the situation ends up being that figuring out this bankai thing is overwhelmingly important. More so, an invasion of strong individuals is happening right now and the captains need bankai NOW. There is no way around fighting so basically sending a few of them to figure things out is actually a good move. More people have a better chance of figuring this out than just one. The problem the captains have right now is that they could not have imagined the quincy would just be able to steal the bankai rather than sealing it as the thing itself makes no sense. Bankai is supposed to be a part of their souls after all.

    Now, the guys that just went ahead and used their bankai are perhaps the better choices for the little experiment. Soifon does not generally fight with bankai so her using it in this scenario is mostly coherent. Even if she cannot get it back she will be able to fight the way she personally prefers. Byakuya is an all around fighter. Even without bankai he has swordsmanship, a ranged zampakuto, high level kido and his wits. Hitsugaya without bankai is grossly understimated after all. Remember when he fought gin? At that time he did something which he has not done ever since, he used his weather control with his shikai. Hitsugaya's shikai with his weather control hold a decent bit of power to say the least. Even without bankai he should manage more than what we have seen before. After all, it is one matter to control the heavens in karakura town and another completely different one to do it in the sereitei when it is completely overrun by enemies. Komamura is fucked though.

    ________________________

    On another note, I have been thinking about the blood cloth or whatnot. Is the blood cloth that thing we saw with nodt? If it is it seems kinda similar to hierro to say the least. Hierro basically takes reiatsu and concentrates it on the skin of arrancar to make it incredibly resistant. What if a similar principle applies to the quincy's blood? They use the reishi they absord to harden their blood or something to increase their strength? The interesting part is that quincy and arrancar would have such a similar technique. The quincy seem to have engaged in some research so perhaps this is a bit of a new development? Perhaps the quincy thought of it because arrancar are also capable of absorbing power from the air, they just adapted the process into something which suited them.

    ---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SQuiZeR View Post
    I wonder before Gotei 13 who were protecting the King against such dangers?After all, we all know that Gotei 13 has been around for 1000 years. And it is too naive to think souls without bankai or dangerous enemies like VR didn't exist before Gotei 13. And also wanna see what might make the royal guards so special. I mean Kyoraku and Ukitake are badass and still not the royal guards. I don't ignore the fact that they might not have wanted to be royal guards but still can't help wondering the royal guards. Hope Kubo will be able to make it proper for squad 0 to be awesome enough, though
    The squads have been around far longer than 1000 years. Heck, we know for a fact that the academy which was founded by yamamoto has been around for over 2000 years. Yamamoto was not even the first captain commander. Heck, there have been 11 kenpachi as far as we know which makes up for a few millennium at least lol.

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  8. #231
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by FetherMan View Post
    I think besides, Zaraki Kenpachi that Shunsui, Unohana, Ukitake and Yamamoto are the main captains to give the Sternritter a run for their money. But, most likely Mayuri has found a way to deal with the Quincy by now, plus, Yamamoto will most likely be saved for the Vandenreich leader.
    mayuri shouldn't be ready either,since these quincies are different from the quincies,as are their techniques. Imo,mayuri will have some troubles this time,and that's okay,since he is the bastard who killed the biggest number of quincies. it'd be cool if they killed him for revenge.

  9. #232
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal View Post
    I was actually disappointed by this chapter. The move SS captains made made absolutely no sense, and devalues them greatly. For all their military might and tactics (even previously displayed ones) this felt like a decision an 8 year old would make.

    First off: Soi fon didn't even like using her bankai as it totally inhibits her usual fighting style. She only used it in an exceptional case after her shikai proved uneffective (only due to not being able to touch barragan). It makes no sense to me for her to open up to an opponent of unknown strengths/abilities/weaknesses! with her bankai, while in FULL knowledge that it will most likely be 'sealed'; however having no idea of possible side effects. Say sealing bankai also inhibits shikai in the process, or perhaps converting some of that power for own use (Yeah nobody saw this one coming? come on man..)

    Then Byakuya, okay, he might have popped his bankai normally. But with his usually strategic and calm mind, I find it unfitting for him to use it whilst knowing the enemy will seal it. Sure the idea is ok, but I'll come back to that later.
    Now what I don't feel is that he even needed to use his bankai at this moment; and maybe not even against these particular opponents at all. He utterly pwnt 2 of them at once, with his shikai. (ok mostly on a tactics level) He caught the scary b* off guard and punctured her blood skin stuff. It didn't look like he put all of his power into that, so I'm assuming he can dish out more damage. And the other guy (or both even) was completely oblivious to the damage byakuya did to the floor, paying no attention to it. Now I'm not saying he could have defeated them like this, but it sure didn't look like he couldn't hold out for a while either. Never mind renji being there as well.


    Now for the real kicker. Ok, their reasoning as to let a bankai get sealed in the presence of more people to observe is fairly sound. But did they really have to pop it all at the same time..? I remember in the SS arc, they used butterflies and kidou to communicate important data quickly. Now how about they would have let ONE or maybe TWO people use bankai and get it sealed (yea I'm looking at you hitsu-bankai-happy-gaya). Observe what happens (and oh dear they had an ace up their sleeve who would have thought!) and relay that to the others.

    It's like suddenly SS lost its tactical view and became like HM arc ichigo: 'fighting = bankai'. Whatever happened to kidou, or shikai, or using wits..


    No this wasn't a good chapter for SS. It makes them look like a juvenile bunch of power happy kids that don't know how to control their new toys, instead of the multi-thousand year old law-institute it's supposed to be.
    The captains are stronger then the vice captains so while losing their bankai does cause them to lose some of their ability it's better than the vice captains losing their bankai which would give them uneven strength. Their actions showed that they were all working under the same mindset of trying to figure out what's causing them to seal their bankai's by releasing their and relying on their vice captains to figure out the secret behind it. However they were stolen and not sealed which does make things tougher it seems.

    You might think it dumb that Soi Fon released her Bankai but it makes complete sense, she hates her bankai so what does she care if it gets sealed, she can at least make use of her bankai by seeing if it reveals anything about the enemies ability to seal/steal them and then relay it to the other captains so that they can use their bankais.

    It's an all out war, do you really think it's smart to say ok, I'll release bankai first Renji you relay the info if you see anything, if you don't see anything then Soi Fon you release and see if you notice anything, if that doesn't work then the next captain try. No that's just stupid they don't have the luxury of waiting out for each person to release their bankai to see if they notice anything. The only thing they can do in war time is act with aggression and relay on their teammates to back them up. Even if that means all of them having their bankais sealed in the process. They already know that them being sealed/stolen is inevitable regardless of when or how they release it so they are better off releasing it right off the bat rather than taking their time with everything.

    They have to act fast the slower they react the more they think about it the greater risk they put everyone in the Gotei 13 in. They are captains and it's their duty to protect their comrades and it's the duty of the vice captain to back them up. It's like a captain going down with their ship, you don't ask the second in command to go down with the ship as you escape you are the one who takes on the responsibility of testing out your bankai on the enemy it's to show that you are the leader and your confidence in being able to hold your own when even without your bankai. The leader is the one who should handicap themselves it shouldn't be the vice captains responsibility to go bankai and limiting their strength by doing that you show lack of confidence and fear of taking one for the team.

    The 4 captains acted as captains should they acted without fear and believe in the support of their vice captains. There's nothing dumb about what they did and hopefully now that they know it gets stolen they may be able to find a way to take it back. if just one of them can figure it out then they can relay the information to the others in the Gotei 13 to prevent them from having their bankais stolen or get it back if it's already been stolen.

  10. #233
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    After reading the chapter, I didn't analyze the situation about the bankai. I was actually one of the people here who thought the release of 4 consecutive bankais was kind of strange. However, after reading posts from everyone explaining their ideas, I start to comprehend the captains' actions more. So thank you.

    Maybe i just didn't give the captains enough benefit of the doubt

    I have a feeling that the VC of someone like Koma will discover something important. Koma will risk his life to let his VC escape and relay the information.

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  12. #234
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Yami no Serena's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    I wont criticize the captain using bankai. What else they could have done against an enemy so strong?
    1) Well, for starters, why the hell did they decide to waste 4 captains' bankai to just see how the enemy steals it?! One person should be enough! Well, ok, let it be 2 - just to be sure. They have means of sharing information - they could have just trasnfered what they found out and not let 4 of the best fighters go to waste!

    2) The most obvious one:
    Why in the world could it have not been lieutenants that used bankai for this get-the-precise-information idea?! Are they completelly stupid?! Strategically it would be much more clever:

    a) captains would be more capabale of handling the intruders after they got the information of what quincies do to bankai
    b) captains would be more likely to spot correctly what exactly the quincies do, if they were to observe from the sidelines, than lieutenants. It was already explained in Bleach, you're more likely to see what you need in your opponent if your reatsu matches or exceeds his.

    ---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

    Also, the whole chapter felt like a badly written internet role-play. So, talking about plot composition, the chapter was utter crap, as well.
    Last edited by Yami no Serena; June 18, 2012 at 03:28 PM.
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  13. #235
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Yami no Serena View Post
    1) Well, for starters, why the hell did they decide to waste 4 captains' bankai to just see how the enemy steals it?! One person should be enough! Well, ok, let it be 2 - just to be sure. They have means of sharing information - they could have just trasnfered what they found out and not let 4 of the best fighters go to waste!

    2) The most obvious one:
    Why in the world could it have not been lieutenants that used bankai for this get-the-precise-information idea?! Are they completelly stupid?! Strategically it would be much more clever:

    a) captains would be more capabale of handling the intruders after they got the information of what quincies do to bankai
    b) captains would be more likely to spot correctly what exactly the quincies do, if they were to observe from the sidelines, than lieutenants. It was already explained in Bleach, you're more likely to see what you need in your opponent if your reatsu matches or exceeds his.

    ---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

    Also, the whole chapter felt like a badly written internet role-play. So, talking about plot composition, the chapter was utter crap, as well.
    Well, the difference is that they have 4 people trying to figure this out against just 1. probabilities would favor the alternative with 4 peole finding out. And whats the difference between not using your bankai willingly and losing against someone you can't win against without bankai? Not a damn one, you die in either.

    They only have 1 leuthenant and 1 third seat with bankai. And neither is worth much in the grand scheme of things.

  14. #236
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SaitoSpike's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    imho even if they could have used one Captain losing their Bankai for research purposes, i still have to commend Kubo for fast forwarding something we've seen over and over...namely those Captains Bankais who were taken....to add to that it gives him a chance to make them legitimitate again if they can demonstrate what they can do without Bankai....which is perfect since for ppl who are supposed to be prodigies like Byakuya and Toshiro we certainly havent seen prodigious things from them in a long time

    all in all it works for several reasons (that im sure many of you have named already)

    Only one thing stirs my emotion. Aku. Soku. Zan. For the sake of my justice alone!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Let's be honest kibo showing us these four captain's losing their bankai, does not automatically mean this is a bad chapter, its a progressive chapter. It also gave the reader an insight on possibly, they either know what their doing or think they do

    I have to admit though i suddenly became uninterested and thought well none these sucka's are the war potential
    Spoiler show

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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    kubo probably wanted to show the captains lose the bankai and on purpose choose byakuya and the other show this chapter because we have seen their bankais already. he wanted to make the quincys seem even more unstoppable which i agree with. the only way i would not liked was if he had one of the captains who has not shown their bankais lose it in an instant. i think he choose the right ones because we have seen them already

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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    I think Kubo made them lose their bankai so that they fight against these STernritters, they fail, then the other captains step in, shikai isn't enough, so they Bankai and barely win.

  18. #240
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Regardless of the reason, we should be happy at the chance that some new bankai will be appearing, instead of the ones we always see.

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