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Thread: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

  1. #61
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    sasuke did not need time to perfect it

    he merely needed time to bring his body stats (strength, speed, stamina) up to a level where he could finally use it with ease. there was nothing mentioned about him being unable to perfect the skill, there was only mention by kakashi of him using it to raise his speed

    how else could sasuke have copied the writing in the chuunin exam if the record+playback wasn't accurate? we're talking about writing, something that requires great dexterity. if record+playback was off and required perfection, like u said, sasuke woudl have merely drawn curly lines all over his paper like he was having a seizure

    all you need is the appropriate bodily stats to execute a recorded move. having insufficient bodily stats merely means being unable to execute the move yet. and as long as you have the required body stats, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the record+playback is extremely accurate

    bodily stats carry over from skill to skill. an established ninja like any 16-20 year old trained uchiha ninja with sharingan would be able to copy most skills on the spot
    We saw him practicing with Chidori, during the point when he asked Kakashi how many could he preform. So it wasn't as if he knew how to use it prefect after copying it. He was still getting the feel for it, gauging how to use it best. Like I pointed out, Pre-Sharingan Sasuke was also able to see his father preform the Great Fireball and preform it right after. The only problem was that his Fireball was measly and he needed to practice to get it up to size. But he was still capable of preforming the technique after seeing it once, without needing the Sharingan. Naruto has done the same too.

    The incident during the Chuunin Exam was done with the prediction ability of the Sharingan, seeing what movement one was gonna make before they made it. He wasn't "recording" anything. And would be capable doesn't mean they did. We have three examples of Uchihas in battle, with Sasuke's the only one to bother copying anything, and even that was a while ago for only techniques. Everything else has been his own techniques, either learnt beforehand, created, or gained in the case of MS/EMS. If the copying ability was so important, surely we would see it put to more use, right?

  2. #62
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    We saw him practicing with Chidori, during the point when he asked Kakashi how many could he preform. So it wasn't as if he knew how to use it prefect after copying it. He was still getting the feel for it, gauging how to use it best. Like I pointed out, Pre-Sharingan Sasuke was also able to see his father preform the Great Fireball and preform it right after. The only problem was that his Fireball was measly and he needed to practice to get it up to size. But he was still capable of preforming the technique after seeing it once, without needing the Sharingan. Naruto has done the same too.

    The incident during the Chuunin Exam was done with the prediction ability of the Sharingan, seeing what movement one was gonna make before they made it. He wasn't "recording" anything. And would be capable doesn't mean they did. We have three examples of Uchihas in battle, with Sasuke's the only one to bother copying anything, and even that was a while ago for only techniques. Everything else has been his own techniques, either learnt beforehand, created, or gained in the case of MS/EMS. If the copying ability was so important, surely we would see it put to more use, right?
    1) like i said, the sharingan seems to only copy physical movement. if he had to practice with the chidori, it was probably for chakra moulding and expulsion. in this regard, i think any ninja with enough experience in executing ninjutsu would have far less trouble in moulding an operational amount of chakra on the spot after seeing it once. it's another body stat that could probably be carried from skill to skill, chakra dexterity.

    2) regarding your gokakyu no jutsu "instant copy" allegation, let me bring out evidence to the contrary:

    "you were taught the seals a while ago"
    I don't think that implies sasuke copying the seals on the spot

    3) prediction only comes with level 3 sharingan. sasuke was surprised by this ability when he unlocked lvl 3 fighting naruto at the valley of the end

    4) how do you know it's not being used? not every ninja must spam every skill in his arsenal until the appropriate situation calls for a relevant skill. kakashi's copied over 1000 techniques, he's barely been shown using any at all. not everyone's naruto who must spam every single skill he knows regardless of relevance and help everytime he meets someone new.
    if anything, the ability to copy these skills would greatly increase the sharingan user's adaptability without much training, as he has greater access to a greater variety of skills for variou situations

  3. #63
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    If the Uchiha is better than the Senju, then how did Senju ever rival them in power? There's no way they could have been equal of Uchiha was really haxxed like people pretend they are. In fact, I'm not sure most of you know what hax means.

    If Uchiha was haxxed, Senju would have been wiped out a long time ago. Otherwise you'll have to admit Senju are haxxed as well.


    And before using lack of Senju but Tsunade as an argument, can you prove that they haven't assimilated with other clans?

    Manga shows that either Senju is just as haxxed or Uchiha isn't as haxxed as people make it out to be.

  4. #64
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    I've been trying to locate this skill you alleged naruto copied on the spot early on

    what skill is this? I can't find anything to this effect

    ---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    If the Uchiha is better than the Senju, then how did Senju ever rival them in power? There's no way they could have been equal of Uchiha was really haxxed like people pretend they are. In fact, I'm not sure most of you know what hax means.

    If Uchiha was haxxed, Senju would have been wiped out a long time ago. Otherwise you'll have to admit Senju are haxxed as well.


    And before using lack of Senju but Tsunade as an argument, can you prove that they haven't assimilated with other clans?

    Manga shows that either Senju is just as haxxed or Uchiha isn't as haxxed as people make it out to be.
    yup the senju are just as haxed, just not as flashy or dramatic as the uchiha

    in fairness, they were probably stamina gods. they were also possibly gifted users of chakra (chakra geniuses), but that has yet to be shown in canon yet beyond hashirama and tobirama.

    but to bring it back to the topic, it just gives them greater endurance to outlast the sharingan users, matching the world's sharpest sword against the world's sturdiest shield. it's an ass of a situation if all you have is a shield, and all you can do is to keep blocking and shield bashing while the sword user chooses when he feels like swinging at you until he finally gets tired out. the sword user dominates the entire fight even though he can't injure u

    further, arguably, they still have to keep working to gain all those skills, which were nowhere near as flashy or instnatly useful as the sharingan ones, which are automatically given on sharingan unlocking. the ability to cut a mountain in half on unlocking MS? the ability to record+playback a skill just by looking at it once?


    granted, the increased godly stamina probably makes it easier to work harder. but in any case, it still doesn't make the sharingan any less of an asspull. ultimately they're all asspulls
    Last edited by hyper_megaman; June 20, 2012 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    1) like i said, the sharingan seems to only copy physical movement. if he had to practice with the chidori, it was probably for chakra moulding and expulsion. in this regard, i think any ninja with enough experience in executing ninjutsu would have far less trouble in moulding an operational amount of chakra on the spot after seeing it once. it's another body stat that could probably be carried from skill to skill, chakra dexterity.

    2) regarding your gokakyu no jutsu "instant copy" allegation, let me bring out evidence to the contrary:

    "you were taught the seals a while ago"
    I don't think that implies sasuke copying the seals on the spot

    3) prediction only comes with level 3 sharingan. sasuke was surprised by this ability when he unlocked lvl 3 fighting naruto at the valley of the end

    4) how do you know it's not being used? not every ninja must spam every skill in his arsenal until the appropriate situation calls for a relevant skill. kakashi's copied over 1000 techniques, he's barely been shown using any at all. not everyone's naruto who must spam every single skill he knows regardless of relevance and help everytime he meets someone new.
    if anything, the ability to copy these skills would greatly increase the sharingan user's adaptability without much training, as he has greater access to a greater variety of skills for variou situations
    1) Considering that the Sharingan can see chakra and the way it moves within the body, that's unlikely. And he was clearly physically practicing with it, not merely figuring out how to mold the chakra needed.

    2) That was still by all indications, his first time actually preforming the technique. It's not as if we have any reason that Kakahsi didn't teach Sasuke the seals to Chidori either, especially since it's usage required time to activate.

    3) No, the two tomoe can predict too. The three tomoe merely made it better. That's how he was able to see Lee's movements. It's also the bases for the copying ability, so unless you're saying he didn't have that, then he had to be able to predict.

    4) Because we've seen them in several battles, and it not being used. We also know all of his techniques, and so far all the new techniques that Itachi displays have been either unique to him or Sharingan-based. That again brings up the point, that if it was so useful, why is it that it's barely been shown? Why does Sasuke stick with his own techniques instead of "adapting without having to train"? Why would he train in the first place if he could just copy things? Why, when he was with Orochimaru, did Sasuke talk about training, if he could have just had Orochimaru preform a bunch of techniques and instantly copy them? He clearly has no issue with copying, yet he chooses to train instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    I've been trying to locate this skill you alleged naruto copied on the spot early on

    what skill is this? I can't find anything to this effect
    The Uzumaki Naruto Combo, which he copied from Sasuke's Lion Combo. Technically the Rasengan too.

  6. #66
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Problem is, Hashirama, Tobirama, and Tsunade are the only Senju we have been shown in detail, so that's a moot point. It doesn't matter what abilities the Uchiha have been given retroactively. Even with the introduction of MS and EMS some time ago, we were still told that the Senju were the Uchiha's lifelong rivals.

    Why wouldn't they have been able to stage their coup with only a few possessing Sharingans? It's not as if only the Uchiha's with the Sharingan would be fighting. They would have had an entire clan of fighters to assist in the coup. Not to mention the very nature of a coup is more of a blitz tactic then an outright war. Being the police force, the Uchiha clan would have been aware of the weak spots they would need to hit to succeed in their revolution. Regardless, a clear point as been made that the entire clan couldn't have gained the majority of these abilities nor did they have them.

    Both Sasuke before he awoke his Sharingan and Naruto have been shown learning to use a technique after merely seeing it used once and being capable of somewhat using it, though not perfectly. So such a feat is not unique to merely those with the Sharingan. And despite copying Lee's speed and the Chidori, Sasuke still needed to take out time to prefect them, so just copying a technique doesn't mean being able to use it instantly any more then a regular person copying a technique could do. That is by far the least used or even mention of the Sharingan's ability for a reason. Also, the Sharingan can see the flow of chakra.

    And so? The point remains that gaining MS and EMS hasn't given Sasuke the ability to instantly win a battle anymore then it has any other strong ninja. So how can they be called haxed if he still has to work at winning?And Sasuke's a prodigy, meaning he would have been strong then a regular Sharingan user.
    k let me get this straight, youre saying that a handful of uchiha and fodder nin can take on an entire village? lets say there were like 15 sharigan users and like 20 fodder nin youre saying that they could take on the entire village? youre saying that they could take on the third, kakashi, asuma, all of the other jounin, the parents of the 11, the hyuuga, the abarame, akimichi clan, inos clan, not to mention the other chunnin that would join in to, itachi, danzo and the entire root with say 30-40 people? are you serious? it doesnt matter if they know the villages weak points they wouldnt have enough power to take over the whole village. there is just no way, not to mention if all of them couldnt unlock the sharigan they would get focused and picked off easily by the other experienced jounin and then the sharigan users would get ganged up on and killed. if you think one clan of 30-40 people could take on the village your sadly mistaken. if itachi and tobi killed all of them themselves than how can they take on a village? yes they may have been killed at night but they are ninja and if it was that easy to get rid of them than how could they take a full village of experienced nin head on? you said it yourself not all of them can unlock the powers of the uchiha so how can you claim that they could take on the village when most cant even reach full potential or be deemed a threat? if they have no sharigan than they are fodder. fact. an uchiha with no eyes is no threat. fact. their power comes from their eyes so if they can use them they are USELESS! yes they may have skills but they would only be on the level of an average jounin so say they came across the third or kakashi lol and do you think people like jiraya and the monks that asuma was part of would let the village get attacked? they would have reinforcements out the ass so no, no they wouldnt be able to take over the village, they could do damage but for them to overthrow it would be ridiculous

  7. #67
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Naruto copied Uzumaki Naruto barrage, it's how he finished his fight with Kiba. Kakashi states Naruto copied Sasuke, though.


    It's still an assumption that the chakra is the only reason they were able to last. Even that wouldn't help them last against Uchiha, some who could predict movements, read seals, and move fast enough. Uchiha were still equal to Senju in terms of combat, regardless of how. THe only explanation that exists is either both were haxxed or neither was haxxed. Hell, you could even say Senju was haxxed since they were able to fight Uchiha without a doujutsu of their own.

    No, Uchiha also has to work on gaining the skills. It's why Sasuke was training with Kakashi for a month, to work on his taijutsu, elemental nature, and chidori. We even saw Itachi train to be accurate with kunai throwing. We've seen at least two instance of Uchiha training, three if you count Madara and his brother fighting each other. I don't see how Sharingan is flashy, or any flashier than growing trees out of nowhere or shortening 43 required handseals to 1.

    Sasuke used Sharingan for hte first time on Haku. He still lost. He used it on Rock Lee. Still lost. Against Rock Lee, it's been proven that Sharingan is basically useless if you can't react fast enough despite seeing. And the ability to cut a mountain in half only comes with perfect Susano'o, which only Madara has shown to be able to use. Even then, it's been said that only very few Uchiha could unlock Susano'o.

    The ability to copy jutsu or record and playback is useless if the Sharingan holder isn't able to do anything. Sasuke can't master Tsuchikage's Jinton despite Sharingan because he doesn't have the required elements. Itachi can't use chidori because he doesn't have raiton. Kakashi can't use any katon because he has no affinity with such.

    Sharingan isn't as much of an asspull as people like to pretend it is. EMS can be considered an asspull, but it requires chakra to use. MS is not an asspull as usage causes blindness. Sharingan isn't an asspull since as we saw, it's still up to the users. If Sharingan was an asspulll, or Uchiha was as haxxed, they'd be dominating and would have even wiped out Senju.

    In fact, Kishi established Senju to be stronger by giving Uchiha Izanagi, MS jutsu, and etc but still making both clans equal in power to each other. So without SHaringan or MS, Uchiha might have been wiped out for all we know.

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  9. #68
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    k let me get this straight, youre saying that a handful of uchiha and fodder nin can take on an entire village? lets say there were like 15 sharigan users and like 20 fodder nin youre saying that they could take on the entire village? youre saying that they could take on the third, kakashi, asuma, all of the other jounin, the parents of the 11, the hyuuga, the abarame, akimichi clan, inos clan, not to mention the other chunnin that would join in to, itachi, danzo and the entire root with say 30-40 people? are you serious? it doesnt matter if they know the villages weak points they wouldnt have enough power to take over the whole village. there is just no way, not to mention if all of them couldnt unlock the sharigan they would get focused and picked off easily by the other experienced jounin and then the sharigan users would get ganged up on and killed. if you think one clan of 30-40 people could take on the village your sadly mistaken. if itachi and tobi killed all of them themselves than how can they take on a village? yes they may have been killed at night but they are ninja and if it was that easy to get rid of them than how could they take a full village of experienced nin head on? you said it yourself not all of them can unlock the powers of the uchiha so how can you claim that they could take on the village when most cant even reach full potential or be deemed a threat? if they have no sharigan than they are fodder. fact. an uchiha with no eyes is no threat. fact. their power comes from their eyes so if they can use them they are USELESS! yes they may have skills but they would only be on the level of an average jounin so say they came across the third or kakashi lol and do you think people like jiraya and the monks that asuma was part of would let the village get attacked? they would have reinforcements out the ass so no, no they wouldnt be able to take over the village, they could do damage but for them to overthrow it would be ridiculous
    There would be fewer Sharingan users and more Uchihas then that, but yeah, why wouldn't they? Pain with his six Paths and Konan were able to do plenty of damage to Konoha with a surprise attack and similar tactics? Now imagine ~50 to 100 ninjas, all who know what techniques Konoha ninjas use and the sort of tactics they would employ if the village was assaulted, all attacking like at night when the majority of ninjas were sleeping or during a time when most of the more powerful ones were out on missions. A sudden blitz at the critical spots, before the defenders could mount a real response. Ganging up on the more powerful jounins and saving the weaker ninjas for later. Knowing the villages weak point would easily allow they to take the village.

    You're speaking as if the Uchiha clan would have attacked the village head-on. A coup is usually a surprise blitz, done so it's finished before the opposition can counterattack. And why do you presume that if they hadn't awoken the Sharingan, they wouldn't be able to give a good fight? Sasuke and Obito have shown that this is clearly not true. The Sharingan grants an advantage, but it's not their only means of fighting. The Uchiha members would have gone through the same sort of training as the rest of Konoha, meaning they would have been just as strong as the ninjas they were fighting with the Sharingan/MS users being slightly above the majority of forces.

  10. #69
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    There would be fewer Sharingan users and more Uchihas then that, but yeah, why wouldn't they? Pain with his six Paths and Konan were able to do plenty of damage to Konoha with a surprise attack and similar tactics? Now imagine ~50 to 100 ninjas, all who know what techniques Konoha ninjas use and the sort of tactics they would employ if the village was assaulted, all attacking like at night when the majority of ninjas were sleeping or during a time when most of the more powerful ones were out on missions. A sudden blitz at the critical spots, before the defenders could mount a real response. Ganging up on the more powerful jounins and saving the weaker ninjas for later. Knowing the villages weak point would easily allow they to take the village.

    You're speaking as if the Uchiha clan would have attacked the village head-on. A coup is usually a surprise blitz, done so it's finished before the opposition can counterattack. And why do you presume that if they hadn't awoken the Sharingan, they wouldn't be able to give a good fight? Sasuke and Obito have shown that this is clearly not true. The Sharingan grants an advantage, but it's not their only means of fighting. The Uchiha members would have gone through the same sort of training as the rest of Konoha, meaning they would have been just as strong as the ninjas they were fighting with the Sharingan/MS users being slightly above the majority of forces.
    guy they already knew of the attack. if they knew an attack was coming theyd obviously be prepared for it and they were thats why they sent itachi and you cant compare the pain invasion to the coup. nagato had the power of the sage and 6 bodies he can control from a distance, he caught konoha off guard which is why he could do so much damage. do you really think that if konoha knew pain was coming theyd sit down idly and let their village get destroyed? no they wouldve called back naruyto and every other nin that was out on a mission and fought him head on. the uchiha plan was discovered and if they had carried it out konoha wouldve been prepared, pain came on a random day at a random time theres no way anyone couldve been prepared to fight them off plus the first thing they did was fire off rockets and summoned giant beasts when the village was off guard. if you know an attack is coming the first thing to do is prepare for the worst, in the latest chapeter danzo even said the third wouldve stepped in if needed, if they sat back and let their village be destroyed they wouldnt be worthy of being called one of the five major villages

    ---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

    a coup is a suprise attack but konoha already knew the suprise they coulldve had nin well prepared at each and everyone of the villages weak points

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Senjuu won the war, so Senjuu are stronger. Facts man! FACTS!!

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    there was no war lol they agreed on peace haha facts man! FACTS...

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Gotta remind everyone, the Madara we're seeing now isn't the same as the Madara from the past. He's beefed up on Hashirama's chakra. Yes, he's a beast without it, but now that he has it that could potentially be the reason his jutsu are so large scale and deadly. Also the Senju are praised for being a clan of a thousand jutsu who were masters of all aspects of ninja combat from ninjutsu to genjutsu to taijutsu. Giant chakra reserves plus a versatile array of jutsu equals deadly ass clan.

    Yeah, we didn't see any of it. But it's not fair to complain about Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara's revealed techniques in comparison because again, these are geniuses. All of these ninja are the pinnacle of skill and power within their clan. No average Uchiha can perform the same feats that they do, and it's stated often. Tobi states that eyes that can create Susanoo are particularly rare. That leads me to believe that even among the very, very few who managed to get MS, barely any could use Susanoo except the best of the best.

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    guy they already knew of the attack. if they knew an attack was coming theyd obviously be prepared for it and they were thats why they sent itachi and you cant compare the pain invasion to the coup. nagato had the power of the sage and 6 bodies he can control from a distance, he caught konoha off guard which is why he could do so much damage. do you really think that if konoha knew pain was coming theyd sit down idly and let their village get destroyed? no they wouldve called back naruyto and every other nin that was out on a mission and fought him head on. the uchiha plan was discovered and if they had carried it out konoha wouldve been prepared, pain came on a random day at a random time theres no way anyone couldve been prepared to fight them off plus the first thing they did was fire off rockets and summoned giant beasts when the village was off guard. if you know an attack is coming the first thing to do is prepare for the worst, in the latest chapeter danzo even said the third wouldve stepped in if needed, if they sat back and let their village be destroyed they wouldnt be worthy of being called one of the five major villages
    Knowing that they were planning an attack doesn't mean they knew when it would be going down. Pain's Invasion is a prefect comparison, especially since it's not like all the bodies are powerful. Only Deva Path is overpower. Anyway, you do realize that Konoha expected a confrontation with Pain to eventually happen, which is why Naruto went off to learn Sage Mode in the hopes of becoming strong enough to beat him. They simply didn't know when the attack would go down. The Uchiha plan wasn't discovered, since as far as we've been told they had still be in the process of plotting it, Konoha was merely informed the Uchiha's were plotting a coup. Not to mention, if the Uchiha's attempting a coup wasn't any that to Konoha, why would the council have been so worried. Sarutobi outright states that a civil war with the Uchiha's wouldn't be easy. They clearly were a threat, thus the need to deal with them before the coup started.

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Prove what? That their would have still been plenty of descendants with Senju power? The Uzumaki and Uchiha clans prove that. That bring in a bunch of other clans wouldn't make them Senju? Again, the Uzumaki and Uchiha clans prove that. That the Senju had to be just as good as the Uchiha clan? The series tells us that they had been rivals with the Uchiha since the beginning. That the Uchiha aren't hax? All we have to do is look at Sasuke. Even with all his abilities, he still has trouble in fights. He has never breezed through with a win. And Danzo showed us that Izanagi was hardly a major game changer.
    Link reference to your proof, manga or databook. No mention whatsoever that the Senju as a clan inherited the body. The Senju gathered prodigies, implying inside and outside, all the while maintaining/keeping them intact, thus the clans we see now in Konoha. Doesn't make them Senju but it differs with Uchiha of conquering, implying "join me or die", integrating them into the clan where interbred is almost certain. Yes, they have been rivals, balanced, then came MS Madara and Mokuton Hashirama taking the lead of their respective clans. One awaken his inheritance and one made his personal bloodline. It's even doubtful that Hashirama possessed the inheritance where his own kekkei genkai was involved but that's a moot point. The Senju needed a prodigies even among their masters to confront a single MS Madara.* The Uchiha are hax beyond Sharingan, that's what I'm saying from the start. And you do realize that Sasuke, a 16 year old boy fighting against well equiped and experienced combatants with his half ass doujutsu? Do I need to speculate what prime Sasuke could do?

    Spoiler show

    I thank you Kid Chameleone for this valid point: ... shes a failure of a senju uzumaki mix. That's why I pointed out that it's bias BS to say the Senju didn't go through the same circumstance as the Uchiha. Ungodly stamina Senju Hashiramaa married to super life force Uzumaki Mito. Minus 1 of her parent, we have Tsunade which had to resort to Byakugou/Souzo Saisei in spite her heritage and still be weaker.

    Madara mocks Tsunade of being a weak Senju. Does it imply that there were more powerful Senju around? If so, why is the Shinobi Alliance struggling when it's obvious the Senju were kage level? Why is the Senju absent in the current war when they're needed to uphold the Will of Fire? They were masters, prodigies in the shinobi arts. They would undoubtedly be far better than Maito Gai and Hatake Kakashi, Akimichi Chouza and co., plus other non-Senju characters. So strong were the Senju stamina and mastery of the arts and so big were their clan that none of the Shinobi Alliance even mentions the famed "Senju". Not even a squeak.

    Why did they specifically chose Senju Hashirama's and Uzumaki's cells? Why did Kabuto use cells from Uzumaki Karin to boost his chakra recovery? I could understand if he didn't take Hashirama's cells, but what of Senju Tobirama? Obviously it would be the second best choice instead of Uzumaki Karin. Also if they were so blessed with monstrous fortitude, why in hell didn't Orochimaru switch bodies with a Senju instead going for some random ass outside of Rikudou's genome? Even a lesser Senju outmatch an Uchiha, so strong it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    And what did Sasuke have to do next to be capable of maintaining the same fighting style as Lee? Train in taijutsu for about a month with Kakashi.

    Just because he used them doesn't mean he copied them. Need I point out that Yamato has used them too, and he could never have copied them. Again, just because Sharingan sees a technique doesn't mean the user will copy it. Otherwise Sasuke should be running around with a bunch of Shadow Clones after all the times he's seen Naruto use them. What exactly do you think the difference between a missile and a rocket is?
    That's about it. Years for Lee, a month for Sasuke and, ... should one find themselves in some kind of dire situation, the Uchiha blood will demonstrate its accumulated experience, and never will those who have inherited it know any limits. And your point is?

    It's ironic when receiving that type of reply and having it directed back at you, although I would post the same quote over and over again, but I won't. Need I point out that Yamato's a Konoha shinobi, an ANBU operative, possessed Hashirama's cells and not to mention having access to Ninjutsu scrolls left by Hashirama. Again, I'll just waste my time re-quoting things that had been posted already. I'm not sure why you even brought in a non-guided munition when the whole example/analogy was about missiles. Not to mention guns and bullets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    there was no war lol they agreed on peace haha facts man! FACTS...
    I laughed so hard, tears came out ... Rofl!!! Although I have I theory on that point but will keep it for later but I assume it's going to brushed off just to the defend the haxxness.
    Last edited by moonshard; June 21, 2012 at 05:54 AM.

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    Re: Madara Vs Hashirama, Uchiha Vs Senju

    I'm not sure you really understand anything, you're just looking for any excuse to whine about Uchiha being haxxed when it's the contrary. If you admit Uchiha is haxxed, you have to admit the Senju are haxxed as well, considering they were able to stand up to Uchiha's "haxxness." Both were considered rivals, and Madara/Tobi even admitted that Hashirama stood on top of the shinobi world, that he was more known and respected than Madara.

    Sasuke trained like Lee, yeah, but he got quickly exhausted, unlike Lee. I think the kick against Yoroi even gave Sasuke some kind of pain, whereas Lee didn't look to have any pain. If the Uchiha/Sharingan were as haxxed, then Madara wouldn't have lost, Sasuke wouldn't have lost, and Obito would have been able to save himself and Kakashi instead of dying. Hell, the Uchiha wouldn't have been wiped out by two or four people.

    Orochimaru wanted an Uchiha body not because it was haxxed, but because of SHaringan's ability to copy and apparently, its ability to unlock Rin'negan. Orochimaru was on a quest to learn as many jutsu as possible, which Sharingan's ability assisted him with. Rin'negan would have enabled him to use any jutsu. Yet despite the upgrade to Rin'negan, only Madara's been able to achieve that, and only shortly before his death.

    And why wouldn't anyone choose Hashirama? You do know about his power, right? He was able to use Mokuton, bring the bijuu under his control, heal almost any injury instantly (Tsunade can do the same, something that no Uchiha can do), and had a powerful chakra that brought life to his Mokuton. Why would Tobirama be better choice than Karin? Uzumaki's known more for their longevity and chakra than Senju, You do know that Senju and Uzumaki, especially Tobirama and Karin, have different powers, right?


    Where did Hashirama lose against MS Madara? He not only beat EMS Madara, but he also fought the Kyuubi controlled by Madara and wrested away control. Even Susano'o didn't stop Hashirama from beating Madara.

    Why complain about Sasuke fighting against experienced opponents? Why not point out Naruto doing the same and actually winning, whereas Sasuke got tricked or had to retreat? Naruto was able to beat Nagato thanks to Kyuubi. Or that because of Kyuubi's chakra, he had enough chakra to use FRS twice on Kakuzu? Or that he was able to take on Third Raikage thanks to Kyuubi's chakra? Or withstand Raikage's speed and even keep up with him thanks to Kyuubi's chakra. You know? The chakra that's not his, that he got from another source of power? that's worse than Sharingan.

    Can you prove Senju are absent from the current war? Can you prove that they didn't change their clan name or mixed with other clans? For all we know, only Hyuuga and Uchiha practiced inter-clan breeding. And I don't see Uchiha being mentioned either,just Madara seeing as how he was revived and how the good guys thought Tobi was Madara.

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