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Thread: UEFA Euro 2012

  1. #196
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    While England was pretty bad, plus there was the controversy, France didn't even manage to score. What was that display by them? Laurent Blanc made some more terrible managerial decisions. He didn't really make any changes until about the 78th minute. It was clear to me, at least. If Benzema wants to play as a No. 10, play him there and just put Giroud up top. When Giroud actually came on, he made France's best chance all day off of that corner. I don't understand what the fuck Ben Arfa was doing on the field. Mexes sucked as usual.

    For the QF against Spain, which clearly looks to be Spain's win at the moment, I'd like to see Giroud up top supported by Ribery, Benzema, and Nasri. I'd like to see Del Bosque start Jesus Navas and Torres and freaking ditch Busquets. How does he manage to start Busquets but bench Fabregas?

  2. #197
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    My only guess is that they don't play the same position. Cesc is more of a natural attacker while Busquets is more of a defensive/box to box player. It's obvious who the better player is, so I don't know.

  3. #198
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    My only guess is that they don't play the same position. Cesc is more of a natural attacker while Busquets is more of a defensive/box to box player. It's obvious who the better player is, so I don't know.
    Yeah, but what exactly does Busquets give you even as a defensive/box to box player? He's not that quick and it's not like the rest of the midfielders aren't good at possession or dispossession/intercepting passes. I know, Del Bosque plays a 4-2-3-1, where Xabi Alonso and Busquets are your holding midfielders, but couldn't you just drop Xavi or Iniesta a spec down the pitch? Admittedly, this might hurt Spain's offense, but they don't really need two holding midfielders. Use Torres up top, and support him with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, and Jesus Navas, and then just have Xabi Alonso a little behind them supporting the back line. Although, Spain's back line is questionable...I don't know.

  4. #199
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Hah, I guess you sort of answered your own question . Del Bosque could be fixated on having those two mids playing back to keep possession and smothering the opponents box to box. I do think a Spanish side playing two strikers would be a bit odd though, at least without Villa in there.

  5. #200
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Hah, I guess you sort of answered your own question . Del Bosque could be fixated on having those two mids playing back to keep possession and smothering the opponents box to box. I do think a Spanish side playing two strikers would be a bit odd though, at least without Villa in there.
    Yeah, I know, that's the problem. While I like the idea of 4-2-3-1, I don't think it works perfectly with the players the Spanish have at their disposal. It leads to better players being out of the squad.

    You could do a basic 4-4-2 with Fabregas as the No. 10 and Torres as the No. 9. However, Del Bosque doesn't do a straight up 4-4-2. As you said, without Villa, a 4-4-2 has no chance of working for the Spanish.

    While FIFA games aren't real life, for a long time, in a bunch of iterations in the series, I did a 3-5-2, which was really a 3-2-2-1-2 if you want to be technical. It gave me two holding midfielders, as well as a pair of wingers and a CAM, plus two strikers. It was really an attacking minded 5-3-2, as my holding midfielders dropped back a little more, but could still go forward. Obviously that's problematic in real life, as it leaves you really open to counter attacks, such as what Barca encountered in the CL SF against Chelsea. Although, Barca doesn't play as wide as that in the same way. The point is that three in the back is really questionable in real life situations, so while I'd like Spain to just load up their talented offensive players, I feel like it would just go badly, regardless of whether there were three or four at the back.

    I just think Del Bosque needs to do something different. While Jesus Navas is ostensibly a winger these days, he was more or less playing as a second striker for a while during some of the games, so it's not like Del Bosque didn't experiment with having two strikers on the pitch, although Jesus Navas isn't a great goalscorer. Here's what I'd like to see in reality.

    Torres
    Mata-Fabregas-Jesus Navas
    Xavi-Iniesta
    Back Four

    The problem there is that you don't have any holding midfielders and have to rely on a questionable back four. Doesn't Spain have anyone else who could fix the problem?

    Xavi, Iniesta, and Xabi Alonso could be in a slightly deeper role supporting Fabregas and Jesus Navas, who would be behind Torres, for a 4-3-3. I'd like to see that, for example, but Del Bosque seems to want the two holding midfielders. I think Spain needs to shore up its back four, and then some of the problems could be fixed. Of course missing David Villa doesn't help, but...

    _________________

    In terms of managers fixated on playing one way or the other, look at Laurent Blanc. Even though Benzema's more of a No. 10 than a No. 9, he insisted on trying to make him play up top and not giving him Giroud to supply balls to. A perfect French squad should be some form of a 4-4-2 with the players that they have, but Blanc claimed that the 4-4-2 is outdated and playing with two strikers no longer works in the modern game. Today, he put Giroud up top late on, and changes were seen.
    Last edited by FrostyMouse; June 20, 2012 at 01:13 AM.

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  7. #201
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    I'm not sure if the back 4 can be shore up in this tournament. Ramos really shouldn't have cut his hair, he doesn't look like the same player (). Plus it's pretty much a known fact that Ramos and Pique don't have much use for one another. While I think they're all more than professional enough to not let any of that get in the way, it doesn't help chemistry. Ramos has always been the type of player to want to be involved offensively and I find it odd that he plays Right Back for RM but is now slotted in at Center Back for Spain because Tarzan is out. I guess he's played both but I'm used to him being on the outside for some reason.

    In any case I think putting Alonso in at a lone back mid position won't do much. I like the idea of a 4-3-3, though they've sort of done that without a true striker against Italy. I don't think Mata would fit well in that formation as he always struck me as more of a Winger but who knows. Like anything else it becomes about who you sit in that case.

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  9. #202
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    I'm not sure if the back 4 can be shore up in this tournament. Ramos really shouldn't have cut his hair, he doesn't look like the same player (). Plus it's pretty much a known fact that Ramos and Pique don't have much use for one another. While I think they're all more than professional enough to not let any of that get in the way, it doesn't help chemistry. Ramos has always been the type of player to want to be involved offensively and I find it odd that he plays Right Back for RM but is now slotted in at Center Back for Spain because Tarzan is out. I guess he's played both but I'm used to him being on the outside for some reason.

    In any case I think putting Alonso in at a lone back mid position won't do much. I like the idea of a 4-3-3, though they've sort of done that without a true striker against Italy. I don't think Mata would fit well in that formation as he always struck me as more of a Winger but who knows. Like anything else it becomes about who you sit in that case.
    I meant shoring up the back four for WC 14. :P

    Yeah, I know. It's the same thing that was present with the England squad up until this year's Euros. You would think that people would be professional enough to get past club rivalries, but they're really not. Ramos is only a CB for Spain because they have no other capable defenders at the moment. Will Tarzan ever play again, or are his injuries not that severe? I don't like Arbeloa at all, nor that Alba (I think?) fellow. I'd prefer Ramos as the RB as he's an attacking minded player, and being a CB stifles a lot of that.

    I can agree with that. Having a single holding midfielder doesn't do anything. A 4-3-3 without an actual striker is really more like some screwy 4-6-0 though, which we saw was the problem. When Torres came on and made it an actual 4-3-3, the squad livened up completely. He did miss two quite easy chances, but that's not to say that the formation didn't work out. Mata doesn't work in a 4-3-3 at all, which is why I didn't mention him for that. Mata really only works for Spain if they're completely focused on offense and have a respectable back four, something which isn't true at all. Mata works in a 4-2-3-1, such as what Chelsea have, but even Chelsea doesn't really have two dedicated holding midfielders. Lampard's become a holding midfielder as he no longer possesses the pace to be a CAM and then, for next season, we'll use Mikel/Ramires as a second holding midfielder and/or in a slightly more advanced position.

    I think Spain's problem in general is that a lot of their skill players are smaller and aren't versatile players who can be used around the pitch. Del Bosque's gone to relying on Busquets, not because he's that good of a player, but because the rest are too offensive and won't sit at all. While Spain's midfielders are more skilled than Germany's overall, Germany's are more versatile and you can move them around more easily.

    I think a 4-3-3 without Busquets is Del Bosque's best option, but he's never really done that wholeheartedly. If Tarzan was present, I think he'd be willing to ditch Busquets and trust more in the back four, but this issue will plague Spain for a while. I still think Spain wins the Euros, but I don't think that they have a chance in WC 14 unless they fix their defensive issues. If, and when, Villa returns from the broken leg, what do you do then? A large amount of players who break their legs are never the same as they're just not willing to risk it. By WC 14, Torres will be older and Villa's a question mark, so who will Del Bosque turn to? Llorente or Negredo? He doesn't trust either of them as far as he can throw them. I just see the future of Spain as being more like a 4-6-0 and hoping things work out. You can't get a replacement for Messi and that's the problem. Torres and Navas don't link up perfectly with the Barca players. Now, if Del Bosque could convince Messi to ditch out on Argentina and become a Spanish citizen, he'd be in business. :P

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  11. #203
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    I pretty much agree with all of that analysis

    Just think if Messi did become a Spanish citizen way back when

    There's not chance of that ever happening though, he would be completely trashed by his home country

  12. #204
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    I pretty much agree with all of that analysis

    Just think if Messi did become a Spanish citizen way back when

    There's not chance of that ever happening though, he would be completely trashed by his home country
    Messi moved to Spain at a relatively early age, and as he's lived there for years, he could've done it. Spain would be nigh-on invincible if Messi had become a Spanish citizen.

    Yeah, he would get trashed by Argentina if he'd done that, but it's not like there aren't players who have. There are a bunch of Brazilians floating around Europe who became citizens of various European nations for one reason or another, and some of them because they wanted to play international football and they couldn't do that for Brazil.

  13. #205
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Oh I'm well aware of the story and the narrow miss Spain had.

    Yeah but they're not at the level of Messi

    ---------- Post added at 03:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 AM ----------

    And yeah we've been through the same thing with Giuseppe Rossi here, but it's soccer so it isn't paid attention to like it should. Sure he's free to do what he wants, but come on man

    I actually wasn't that upset to see he didn't make the Italian squad

  14. #206
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Oh I'm well aware of the story and the narrow miss Spain had.

    Yeah but they're not at the level of Messi

    ---------- Post added at 03:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 AM ----------

    And yeah we've been through the same thing with Giuseppe Rossi here, but it's soccer so it isn't paid attention to like it should. Sure he's free to do what he wants, but come on man

    I actually wasn't that upset to see he didn't make the Italian squad
    Yeah, I know. In a way, I wish that he had become a Spanish citizen.

    Of course they're not. A lot of them were sucky players.

    Yeah, he should play for the US as he is an American, but he has more chances to succeed if he plays for Italy. He could have become the star of America though.

    The only reason that he didn't make the Italy squad is that he's injured...He tore his ACL, iirc.

  15. #207
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Ah yeah, I forgot that detail

    In any case I don't think Italy is in horrible shape at FW with Balotelli, Cassano, and Di Natale. Not sure if he was needed anyway...kind of a silly statement as far as FW go but whatever.

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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Ah yeah, I forgot that detail

    In any case I don't think Italy is in horrible shape at FW with Balotelli, Cassano, and Di Natale. Not sure if he was needed anyway...kind of a silly statement as far as FW go but whatever.
    That's a rather large detail to forget.

    No, they're fine without him. Super Mario was even excellent against Ireland, but it was Ireland.

  17. #209
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    Yeah I even saw him on ESPN in the studio for one of Italy's matches and they asked him about the injury

    Still...SCREW 'EM

  18. #210
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    Re: UEFA Euro 2012

    So apparently after last night, Sepp Blatter has come to the conclusion that goal line technology is now a "necessity". Despite the fact that this decision is obvious and should've been implemented a long while ago, his timing could not be worse.

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