Fairy Tail 287 Discussion/ 288 Predictions

[haegar]

^I am almost certain he gave us a red herring with Chelia's magic and the implication it might be Zeref related. As for Laxus pwning all too easily and quickly, true, I was likewise set for cheering him on as he struggles the next two weeks ...still, nice to see he grows into gramps shoes more and more ... he reminds of the pics we had of young Makarov...

About the powerups for 2nd row characters compared to the strongest team, I have a feeling this arc's endfight enemies will be much more badass, so if Natsu doesn't get his moment against Sting he'll probably shine all the more against whatever Arkadios brings to the fight...not to mention atm it really begins to look like Zeref might make some appearance in some way ...

edit: on the Lumen Histoire meaning, I lean towards something related to "the history of the light side of magic" - not in the sense that is a recording of said history but something that can actively "shape" it - there is this saying about "whose version of history, or history being written by the victor" - normally that has to do with how something is defined in an intellectual or political/social discourse, but even in the real world the power to enforce this or that version of history is "power" over the presence and future in some way ... I expect it to somehow have power over how strong or weak the light side of magic in general is ...

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c241/

Gildartz isn't that strong. You can't even say he won the fight because here he can't even move. I stand by my previous posts.

[MechR]

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c241/

Gildartz isn't that strong. You can't even say he won the fight because here he can't even move. I stand by my previous posts.

You're forgetting he was depowered halfway through the fight until Erza could beat Azuma.

[Freid]

I have a strong feeling that there will be a FT A vs. FT B match-up that takes place before this is all said and done, and it'll probably be the best match we see. This possibility was strongly hinted at when FT B was shown to have qualified. My money is on it being Natsu vs. Gajeel. I just don't see everyone getting to fight everyone they "want to or should " fight in such a neat and orderly fashion. I think some of those match-ups may be saved for outside of the Grand Magic Games.

Had the same thought. I was initially hoping for a Mirajane vs Erza fight but that probably won't happen. As old rivals, I've always been obsessed with who was more powerful. Mashima just doesn't give Mirajane enough credit. I'd like to see her really let loose again, which means no shackles or handicaps like in the fight against Azuma and no turning the fight into a silly swimsuit contest.....Since Mirajane vs Erza doesn't seem to be on the cards any more, I'd be satisfied with a Mirajane vs Minerva match up though. In fact, I predict this

[lawlett-kun]

am i the only one who actually wants to see juvia fight?

[haegar]

^you kidding? I am eagerly waiting for powerup v2 of her rage mode against Meredy

Though I have to admit I don't mind if she fights in the tournament or later in whatever else the arc brings, in fact, in a later fight where she protects something dear to her or gets ticked off emotionally chances of her pwning badass are much higher

Then again, come to think of it, while I wouldn't mind Gray getting his moment against Rufus ... maybe there is something to be said for Gray loosing and lateron Juvia rage-handling the guy who beat up HER Gray - I didn't pay much attention to all the speculations on possible tournament line-ups for the next days, is that concievable that she can get lined up against whoever beats Gray?

Anyways, I trust in Hiro not having forgotten about her...

[Kauia]

I really love Juvia all the more especially if its Gray related. The way that girl reacts when it's Gray could become either so comical yet so amazing at the same time. I loved her match against Meredy. I bet if it was a woman she's fighting, she'd think that person is into Gray so I expect her to go nutty on that person. Besides, Juvia has yet to join a one on one battle so I think we should expect it to happen.

If a fairy tail A or Fairy tail B match up happens, I feel like it's going to turn out to some comical fight that Fairy Tail members would have funny reactions with betting or not really caring who wins with the whole arena questioning their sanity.

[matzik1212]

Yeah a FT A vs. FT B would be awesome . That match wouldn't be just amazing 'cause of the guys participating in it but also comical and it will let everyone with their mouths wide open .

It would resemble the usual mess they always do in the guild when they are hyped over certain things Hmm now i have to say that it kinda sucks Natsu and Gray both are part of FT A . Their match would have been the best to see

[Kauia]

Oh I just had an idea. A team fight wouldn't be so bad. It'd be great if you had Ft team A and FT team B fights each other. It'd be really much comical! The crowd would be left hanging open and the guild would be laughing and betting money who to win. I bet Cana would go around the audience for asking to bet which team would win. The judges wouldn't even know how to describe the scene. Hell, the fight might almost destroy the stadium. I think some few others like Laxus might just watch them from afar though he should be fighting.

[BlackHair]

I apologize for my late reply, I had some stuff on my hands. Even though the discussion seemed to have moved on, I need to bring this up again, as I have some unwritten thoughts.

My issue in this discussion are those posts defending Mashimas hype, saying RT was never hyped. Its somewhat funny though, prior to this arc no one (rly nobody!) expected Ivan to be weak. Now since he turned out to be weak, its interesting to read ppl saying he was never expected to be strong, or his strength was never foreshadowed. Im not sure whether those posts are to defend Mashima or to mock our intelligence, but well let me re-explain.

• Ivans introduction

Fairy Tail is a shounen story. If it comes to shounen plot important character there are two kinds. The one being physically capable, the other who are not. Ivan is the father of a beast and the son of a ten wizards saint. Evidentially he had to be strong. This is a freaking shounen manga, not some real life drama.

If he would have been a doctor, a rich dude, a king or anything other than a fighting character, we might have rightfully questioned his strength. However he was presented as a dark mage and as one of the Dreyar, as such he had to be strong.

• Dark guild diagram -> RT

While every weak guild is painted into a small box, the stronger guilds are painted in bigger circle. RT along with GH, O6 and Tartarus are painted into a big circle. Since we witnessed the strength of O6 and GH, the expectation of Raven Tail were comparable great.

• Gildartz info card

He is one of the guilds strongest character. Usually the strong ones don't bother with the weak. As such if a guy like Gildartz hates Ivan, there has to be more to it, than just disliking someone u hate.

Ultimately it is because of ALL pieces of information many expected great from him. This is like a puzzle, several piece of information served to hype him and his guild. However it is disappointing and sad to learn that Mashima used RT to build the Lumiere secret and consequently decided to trash the RT plot for definite. They deserved a arc (main plot) on their own, but they were killed off as a side plot.


1337 haxor
No need to wry, I wasn't wasting my time. As I like writing and polishing my English skills. Regarding ur post, u concluded and stated RT as the fourth strongest. Words such as "probably" were never used. I wouldn't have responded if it wasn't for ur seemingly sure opinion, with what I disagreed. That aside, I agree it seems like a Mafia system.

Ifrit
This is not about Laxux. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Gildartz, Makarov or even Mavis who defeated Ivan. This is about Mashima trashing Ivan and his guild. The way they were defeated was just pathetic. He was not able to push Laxus to be even remotely serious. On top of that his top fighters of his guild were defeated along side him. They were weak, despite the long build-up.

exacta
I rly have to agree. Charles vision is of no importance or excitement for me, as I know nothing will happen. Just like the indications of Makarov dying, he won't.. he is plot immortal. Even if he would die, I wouldn't care anymore as Mashima killed my care for him.

This arc was rly only about the Zodiac keys. RT was not needed, they deserved a arc on their own, not a miserable end as a side plot. Heck, they were not even a side plot, as they were used to hype the Lumière business.

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

Depowered?? How exactly was Gildartz depowered? Can you make a link to the prove of that?

[Marche]

^you kidding? I am eagerly waiting for powerup v2 of her rage mode against Meredy

Though I have to admit I don't mind if she fights in the tournament or later in whatever else the arc brings, in fact, in a later fight where she protects something dear to her or gets ticked off emotionally chances of her pwning badass are much higher

Then again, come to think of it, while I wouldn't mind Gray getting his moment against Rufus ... maybe there is something to be said for Gray loosing and lateron Juvia rage-handling the guy who beat up HER Gray - I didn't pay much attention to all the speculations on possible tournament line-ups for the next days, is that concievable that she can get lined up against whoever beats Gray?

Anyways, I trust in Hiro not having forgotten about her...

Even I would really like this scenarios.
To tell the truth I thought that Gray would have win against Rufus (or at least a draw, they would both not able to fight anymore), but then after he was pretty injured he would be knocking out by a member of Raven Tail (I thought Kurohebi).
Kurohebi would have even tried to hurt him even if he would be knocking out, but Lluvia would be able to save Gray in time.

Or at least Rufus would have be able to defeat Gray, and then Lluvia would be pissed and would be able to defeat Rufus, even because Rufus would have memorized Lluvia's power when she was not pissed.
I thought this because I believe this would happened in the fifth day, which would be made by 5 battle royal to elimination (as a royal rumble) made by a member of each team (and the choice would be made by the team itself, not by Arcadias).

Anyways what I wrote above was to say my thought about Lluvia, now I post the second part of my comment of this chapter (I posted the first part some days ago):
Anyways perhaps Makarov could go to met him in prison (Raven Tail will be put in prison only for this tournament, after its end they will be released, and anyways with them in prison Fairy Tail will put down their attention, so Lucy will be kidnapped) and so they would chat.
So perhaps we will know what happened to them and why Ivan was expelled.
Who knows perhaps in someway he discovered the information of Lumen Histoire and then he fall in the darkness for this, or perhaps for the fact that his father did not said anything to him about this, he could have thought that Makarov had not faith in him, that he did not considered him worthy of his trust.
I thought about this after this lastest chapter, after this lastest chapter I don’t think that Ivan is so evil how he seemed previously.
If this will be the case then perhaps at the end of this arc there will be a reconciliation.

Anyways form what seem Ivan serves only because perhaps Lumen Hisotoire will be used in this arc.
If this is the arc I believe that this would not needed, even because I already thought this, in fact after seeing the “Gateway of darkness”.
In fact I believe that Lumen Histoire will be used against it or at least will be used after it for delete his negative effects.
Or perhaps ghe Gateway of darkness will send Arcadias, Lucy and perhaps even some others in an ancient time, in the past, 400 years ago of the currently time, then Fairy Tail (with his allies) will use Lumen Histoire and will go to reach Lucy.
In fact I believe Lumen Histoire contains all the details of the magic, the story of the magic (perhaps only the light magic, not the dark magic), and then that gateway could open a pathway that could send them in the past, even if some condition must happened for it.

Anyways Ivan even if know of its existence he did not know where it is, so he never saw it.
For this reason I believe that he is wrong when he says that this is Fairy Tail’s darkness, even always for this reason I don’t believe that Lumen Histoire said that Mavis was evil.

Anyways I must say that there is the possibilities that in someway Ivan lose purposely, in fact I believe that he would have know that Luxus even if he knew the location of Lumen Histoire would have never said anything like that, so his goal was that of raise suspicion and intrigue Luxus, so that he would researched about it (or even better he would ask directly to Makarov the location of the guild), so he would have know the location of it because probably he in someway would have spy Luxus (if this will be the case I believe that we will know this at the end of the current arc, so we would wait several chapters).

Infact he could hidden is real strength, perhaps thanks to his paper magic.
In fact as I said in the thread for chapter 286 comments I believed this “…
I infact believed that his magic is very similar to that of Kain Hikaru, except for the fact that Ivan’s doll of paper take the form and the power (just as I said I think only a bit) of the dependent that is copied, while for Hikaru is the opposite, in the dependent that take the properties of the doll http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/226/14 http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/226/15.”
Or perhaps Ivan could have lose purposely while the others for sure, but then we could discover that they are not the strongest mage of Raven Tail.

Anyway in the truth by Ivan’s reaction in this chapter and even by what he thought in the previous chapters I believe that he lose for sure, he did not faked his defeat.
Anyways perhaps Makarov could go to met him in prison (Raven Tail will be put in prison only for this tournament, after its end they will be released, and anyways with them in prison Fairy Tail will put down their attention, so Lucy will be kidnapped) and so they would chat.
So perhaps we will know what happened to them and why Ivan was expelled.
Who knows perhaps in someway he discovered the information of Lumen Histoire and then he fall in the darkness for this, or perhaps for the fact that his father did not said anything to him about this, he could have thought that Makarov had not faith in him, that he did not considered him worthy of his trust.
I thought about this after this lastest chapter, after this lastest chapter I don’t think that Ivan is so evil how he seemed previously.
If this will be the case then perhaps at the end of this arc there will be a reconciliation.

Anyways form what seem Ivan serves only because perhaps Lumen Hisotoire will be used in this arc.
If this is the arc I believe that this would not needed, even because I already thought this, in fact after seeing the “Gateway of darkness”.
In fact I believe that Lumen Histoire will be used against it or at least will be used after it for delete his negative effects.
Or perhaps ghe Gateway of darkness will send Arcadias, Lucy and perhaps even some others in an ancient time, in the past, 400 years ago of the currently time, then Fairy Tail (with his allies) will use Lumen Histoire and will go to reach Lucy.
In fact I believe Lumen Histoire contains all the details of the magic, the story of the magic (perhaps only the light magic, not the dark magic), and then that gateway could open a pathway that could send them in the past, even if some condition must happened for it.

Anyways Ivan even if know of its existence he did not know where it is, so he never saw it.
For this reason I believe that he is wrong when he says that this is Fairy Tail’s darkness, even always for this reason I don’t believe that Lumen Histoire said that Mavis was evil.

Anyways I must say that there is the possibilities that in someway Ivan lose purposely, in fact I believe that he would have know that Luxus even if he knew the location of Lumen Histoire would have never said anything like that, so his goal was that of raise suspicion and intrigue Luxus, so that he would researched about it (or even better he would ask directly to Makarov the location of the guild), so he would have know the location of it because probably he in someway would have spy Luxus (if this will be the case I believe that we will know this at the end of the current arc, so we would wait several chapters).

Infact he could hidden is real strength, perhaps thanks to his paper magic.
In fact as I said in the thread for chapter 286 comments I believed this “…
I infact believed that his magic is very similar to that of Kain Hikaru, except for the fact that Ivan’s doll of paper take the form and the power (just as I said I think only a bit) of the dependent that is copied, while for Hikaru is the opposite, in the dependent that take the properties of the doll http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/226/14 http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/226/15.”
Or perhaps Ivan could have lose purposely while the others for sure, but then we could discover that they are not the strongest mage of Raven Tail.

Anyway in the truth by Ivan’s reaction in this chapter and even by what he thought in the previous chapters I believe that he lose for sure, he did not faked his defeat.

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

Nevermind, I found what it is you were talking about. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy...5/c235/17.html
This argument works against you. Being on this island made Gildartz STRONGER than what he normally is for half of the fight. So actually it was fair for this to happen.

When I went back to the beginning of the fight I understand why Bluenote was so shocked that Gildartz could overpower him.

[Ifrit]

@BlackHair Why don't you look at it in another way.

Ivan wasn't weak, but Laxus was simply a beast !

You're talking about Mashima building a character. I can post 100 links for you with Mashima building Laxus character to be among the strongest in Fairy Tail. In fact if there is some1 who will stand against your Gildartz in Fairy Tail it is Laxus.

Ever since Laxus was represented as the strongest, Yet somehow he never won a fight ? if you ask me. I think Laxus is stronger than Makarov in the current time.

You asking for Laxus to take another fall. It means another lost. Mashima will never do this to a good guy character, because he needs to satisfy the fans. If Mashima planing on keeping Ivan in this series, he will give him his time later trust me on that.

@GomuGomu_Getsuga Gildartz power wasn't drained by 50 %. Azuma drained every1 power with 100%, except for Erza.

If you want Mashima to give Gildartz the ability to stand after Bluenote that means he is gonna be on the ship fighting HADES. Mashima wanted Natsu to beat HADES, so it doesn't make any sense to put Gildartz there.

Also I don't see Gildartz saying I'll stay here with Freed n Bixlow to protect the wounded ppl, and send the young ones for the Big fight. !!

If it was Gildartz show. He would have told them to take Makarvo and the rest, and leave the Island while he will take care of HADES.

My favorite scenario the one I hoped to happen. Is the chapter called (Crashing Thunder) I thought Mashima is gonna give us a Gildartz+Laxus Vs HADES. But I still dream about that moment that never happened.


Back to Black Hair post Remember in Fantasia Arc. Gazille said he can't stand the idea of Laxus to be on Fairy Tail side when both sides was fighting (Phantom Vs Fairy Tail). Because he would have 1 shot master Jose with all his guild mates with Fairy Law.

This give Laxus a spot to be among the 10 wizards saint, since Jose was back then. Again you really should give a mage worth to be among the 10 wizards saint some credit.

Just look at him :

[Krono]

Nevermind, I found what it is you were talking about. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy...5/c235/17.html
This argument works against you. Being on this island made Gildartz STRONGER than what he normally is for half of the fight. So actually it was fair for this to happen.

When I went back to the beginning of the fight I understand why Bluenote was so shocked that Gildartz could overpower him.

When the tree went down, they didn't just lose the bonuses it gave them. Azuma also started using their link with the island to drain them of their power.

In other words, Gildarts doesn't go down here because he's lost the minor boost he gets from the island, he goes down because Azuma's draining Gildart's own magic as well. He then got to lay around, unable to use his magic in increased gravity, as Blue Note pummeled him while he was helpless. No surprise he wasn't able to move after. Blue Note got to get in a ton of free hits on him.



On a different note, one thing to consider that I don't think has been mentioned here but I'm too tired to double check; While this chapter quite effectively destroyed Raven Tail's hype, Raven Tail itself has not been destroyed. Think about it. Ivan and his minions just did the equivalent of cheating at a sports event - too many men on the field. For that they got disqualified, banned from participating for three years, and Arcadios's men escorted them off the field.

That's a far cry for Ivan being arrested for extortion, murder, attacks on the council, etc, like OS and Jellal, and the guild membership disbanded (if treated like a legal guild) or arrested (if treated like a dark guild). You don't get arrested and thrown in jail for life on criminal charges by the government for getting caught cheating at football. You get fines and heavy penalties from the league. Now Arcadios may have the authority to hold them for a short time, but they should be either released, or make their escape within days as he launches his own plans.

The bottom line is that while their hype has been deflated, they're hardly guaranteed to be out of the story permanently.