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Thread: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

  1. #31
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Probably Madara would laugh at a rikudou-sennin wannabe, and then kill nagato effortlesly.

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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Quote Quote:
    Exactly what I said, Amaterasu burn regardless of fuel.
    Also to call a S rank Katon a "casual" katon really does you justice. Prove to me that fire indeed stops burning when it has fuel to mantain the flames, guess you can't since, you know, you would go against physics
    Yes because people have never got hit by fire did not got burned, nobody ever put out fire by rolling on the floor and so on.

    The fur would get burned but you have no posible evidence to provide that the best flesh can be burned the way you sugest. Not all materials can be burned by any fire...
    Amaterasu burns hot enough to go trough fireproof material, its SPECIAL fire...
    Quote Quote:
    Because its the maximum Nagato can do, ST one giant root at a time.
    More he can't do, unless he uses the City Buster
    You need the link of him busting that forest again? If Nagato was Naruto's place he would just ST the mall back at the same time. Oh and before you state that Roots are stronger then that ST you would defenetly need to provide evidence.

    Quote Quote:
    Moron or not, its how the manga works, if he is not suspicious then why oh why would he activate his Rin'negan?
    He automatically knows Madara can use KB? He knew Naruto could use them, yet he never took it into account. Even more if Madara hides in his blind spot
    Because PIS is not used here. Its like making Superman not use his speed in a fight because some idiot showed that somewhere to make a story. Or like stating Sasuke is not going to look at X chakra because he does not have the ability constantly active.

    Quote Quote:
    One punch before Nagato is speared by spikes.
    That is what the manga shows ( let's concede you this point, I guess the fact that breaking the ground is more easily done by breaking it with a fist, and not with an open hand, remember Naruto vs Neji? ), I'm sure Nagato will become incapacitated for that single, precious punch.

    Satisfy my curiosity, if Nagato had access to actual Gedo Mazo, why didn't Kabuto used him to summon the statue and gaining control of the 7 Bijuus?
    Nagato is only hit by them spikes to summon the dragon. Its for the jutsu. We can go on and on on why Naruto decided to use that, perhaps the GM can't move much with no bijus or whatever, its not really relevant. Now the GM with the bijus inside showed to be able to move a lot. This is not a feat for the summoner but the summon. Anybody that can summon means the GM can do that. Also the ground was not ripped with the hands, it just pops out with his entire body close at the same time.

    As for the last part:

    1-Plot. Why has kabuto not summon Madara back?
    2-Tobi can also control it and Tobi is way better at it.
    3-Tobi is curently sinked with the statue and perhaps Nagato can't take control because of it.

    Look its irrelevant how what where, Nagato showed:

    1-He can summon the GM.
    2-He can make it move and even summon a huge dragon.

    Then the GM showed what it showed it can do with the Biju's chakra. Perhaps it did not had the chakra to move a lot with no bijus BUT it can do that now.

    Nagato was completly in control of it, summoning it, making it spit a dragon, making it suck biju chakra out, sink it with other aka to give it chakra and so on.

    To state that he can't control it the way Madara showed because he aparently only made it punch one its absurd. Its like stating Gama can't shoot water balls for Minato because it only did that for Naruto... I mean come on ...

    Quote Quote:
    I'm sure
    Unless you can provide durability feats that would show it survive that ....

    Quote Quote:
    Not, since given the occasion he never did it, and that was Nagato, not Kabuto controlling Nagato
    He is not limited by the plot here.. You don't see people arguing that Sasuke is not going to fly into the sky with his bird, prep kirin and shoot it down...

    Quote Quote:
    We saw against the fodders how Madara's katons are like "any others Katon".
    Going from that to compare it to Amaterasu is a LONG way. You can't posibly belive his regual (yes high rank) could do what Amaterasu can do. Fire does not burn you down to nothing unless its some insane fire, Amaterasu can do that. You would need to provide the amounth of damage a fire can do.

    Quote Quote:
    Are you aware that Mokuton users are pretty much immune to it, otherwise Hashirama and Madara would've collapsed alongside their enemies, right?
    That or they where not inside the polen?!?!?!? Do you have them INSIDE the danger area and not having a problem? If you do please post it.
    You do need to provide something to back up the above argument as mine is just as logical. Not stating its not posible but first it needs to be proven. Hell Mei is immune to her acid mist but she showed that.
    If i missed something when it is stated for them to be immune i am going to chanse my premise.

    Quote Quote:
    For what, wood not being obliterated by Naruto? Look it up, is when Kyuubi gives Naruto's clone chakra.
    If you mean how a giant root can crush someone, look on the dictionary or the internet what "weight", "accelleration" and "Newton's laws" are
    What am i suposed to see from Naruto? Please provide links as i don't get it. Show me where those roots showed to be able to take ST.

    Oh please not that again.... You telling me to look at whatever you posted above does not help. If something the size of 1 of them roots would fall on your head from high up yes i gues it would kill you, but someone who does not die from buildings falling on him or surviving forces that ripp buildings appart is not going to (kakashi from Pein's ST). Then how hard can Madara make his roots crush a dude? They don't have muscles. Grow and around you to hold you there yes, but once they are there how hard can he make them apply presure? You see your real life things don't exacly apply to roots moving like that.

    Quote Quote:
    Considering he can travel through Mokuton's wood, he can't teleport, but he damn well can travel undetected
    Travel undetected and moving so fast to pop from the front to his back is completly diferent things. Nagato can just ST stuff away from him before Madara get's there.

    Quote Quote:
    Niidaime Mizukage was pretty beat up and tired when using Jokey Boy, same with Muu after splitting
    It sure did not look to me that way but perhaps i missed something. Can you provide me the links to the panels in reference?

    Quote Quote:
    It isn't a smug post, is being ironic
    Its just about the same thing.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Tobi said Sasuke could become even stronger than NAGATO and we saw the true power of an Susanoo user , so IMO this isn't big deal to sayin Madara is stronger than Nagato .... aside his Prefect Susanoo , he has his EMS genjutsu and his clone showed he could almost defeat a Kage ( a though Kage ) with his Genjutsu and in other hand , Nagato didn't show any defence or any potential to stand against genjutsu .... about absorbing techiniqe , Marada cleary said his clone couldn't use absorbing ability because they activated Susanoo , so Susanoo can't be absorb - at least it can't be absorb easily ,

    so IMO even EMS Madara is stronger than Nagato ....

    in the end :

    EMS MADARA >>>>>>>>>>>> RINEGAN NAGATO
    خداحافظ

  4. #34
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    Tobi said Sasuke could become even stronger than NAGATO and we saw the true power of an Susanoo user , so IMO this isn't big deal to sayin Madara is stronger than Nagato .... aside his Prefect Susanoo , he has his EMS genjutsu and his clone showed he could almost defeat a Kage ( a though Kage ) with his Genjutsu and in other hand , Nagato didn't show any defence or any potential to stand against genjutsu .... about absorbing techiniqe , Marada cleary said his clone couldn't use absorbing ability because they activated Susanoo , so Susanoo can't be absorb - at least it can't be absorb easily ,

    so IMO even EMS Madara is stronger than Nagato ....

    in the end :

    EMS MADARA >>>>>>>>>>>> RINEGAN NAGATO
    You do realize that Madara has no way to defeat the Rinnegan's powers no matter how much you put it, his Susanoo is useless, his Mokuton is useless too, nothing can stand in front of the abilities of the Rinnegan. Absorbing Ninjutsu, Gravity powers, Summons, using the 5 elements, I can list whatever you want.

    About the Genjutsu, why do you assume Nagato needs to rely on his " eyes " to beat Madara ? Thanks to the Rinnegan shared vision, his summons can do it for him and he doesn't need to look directly to his eyes.

    The only weakness of Nagato was mobility, in this fight, he's at 100% health, mobility and everything...

    I'm sorry but Rinnegan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The other Dojutsus

  5. #35
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    If I was sure Hungry Ghost Realm could absorb Mokuton, I'd give Nagato the win... but I'm not sure it can do that. And since Madara has Mokuton here even without his Rinnegan, he gets near instant walls of offensive or defensive roots aswell as the ability to make clones, all of which can use Susanoo. Even with his jutsu being absorbed by Nagato, he can bait him into absorbing an offensive attack before attacking from below with roots...

    ..or simply surround him with roots, fire a jutsu at him, and as he absorbs it, walk THROUGH the roots and attack him stealthily on his blindside.

    Only problem with all of this is he can simply ST away the roots that surround him. But if they are placed under the ground it's likely he won't notice any hidden roots. Ontop of that, ST still has it's time limit.

  6. #36
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    If I was sure Hungry Ghost Realm could absorb Mokuton, I'd give Nagato the win... but I'm not sure it can do that. And since Madara has Mokuton here even without his Rinnegan, he gets near instant walls of offensive or defensive roots aswell as the ability to make clones, all of which can use Susanoo. Even with his jutsu being absorbed by Nagato, he can bait him into absorbing an offensive attack before attacking from below with roots...

    ..or simply surround him with roots, fire a jutsu at him, and as he absorbs it, walk THROUGH the roots and attack him stealthily on his blindside.

    Only problem with all of this is he can simply ST away the roots that surround him. But if they are placed under the ground it's likely he won't notice any hidden roots. Ontop of that, ST still has it's time limit.
    Well, if Nagato through Hungry Ghost was able to absorb " oil/fire " combination from Jiraiya and Pa/Ma, why not Mokuton too ? For me, it seems the Rinnegan can absorb anything that is born from Chakra

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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    I was under the impression that the oil was in a gasious, vapor like state because it was already burning when it touched Hungry Ghost, and because wind was added aswell, which would further evaporate the oil since the flames were now even hotter.

    But maybe you're right. The most I'm willing to believe though is that the chakra can be absorbed from the Mokuton without making the wood itself disappear. I imagine the same would work with earth jutsu.

  8. #38
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I was under the impression that the oil was in a gasious, vapor like state because it was already burning when it touched Hungry Ghost, and because wind was added aswell, which would further evaporate the oil since the flames were now even hotter.

    But maybe you're right. The most I'm willing to believe though is that the chakra can be absorbed from the Mokuton without making the wood itself disappear. I imagine the same would work with earth jutsu.
    In the anime, it was clearly " oil " totally absorbed by Hungry Ghost tho... So that's why I assumed that anything born from Chakra can be sucked

  9. #39
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    I think Nagato has a higher chance of winning based on his Rinnegan to render every chakra based attack useless. That means Susanoo, Amaterasu, Mokuton, Fire jutsus, Tuijustu, Ninjutsu and wow pretty much everything Madara has displayed through EMS(excluding genjutsu). Rinnegan is truly OP O_O. And considering the Fact that Rinnegan is the father of all justus, the improved Sharingan, I have my doubts on genjustu being that effective.

    Then again it's not always about who has more power but how a power is used but nevertheless I'll still say Nagato's chances are much bigger ^_^

  10. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    You do realize that Madara has no way to defeat the Rinnegan's powers no matter how much you put it, his Susanoo is useless, his Mokuton is useless too, nothing can stand in front of the abilities of the Rinnegan. Absorbing Ninjutsu, Gravity powers, Summons, using the 5 elements, I can list whatever you want.

    About the Genjutsu, why do you assume Nagato needs to rely on his " eyes " to beat Madara ? Thanks to the Rinnegan shared vision, his summons can do it for him and he doesn't need to look directly to his eyes.

    The only weakness of Nagato was mobility, in this fight, he's at 100% health, mobility and everything...

    I'm sorry but Rinnegan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The other Dojutsus
    I said EMS MADARRA >>>>>>>>> NAGATO

    and NAgato won't absorb prefect susanoo slash .... unless you gave him extra ability ....
    خداحافظ

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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    I said EMS MADARRA >>>>>>>>> NAGATO

    and NAgato won't absorb prefect susanoo slash .... unless you gave him extra ability ....
    Pls enlighten us. Why do u think Nagato can't absorb perfect Susano?
    He absorb Killerbee tailed beast form on impact(Intantly) and do not be deceived but it has more chakra than Susanoo
    He can absorb Fuuton rasen shuriken and repel it

    In fact not only can he absorb that Susanoo but he can probably repel it too with ST ^_^

  12. #42
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Pls enlighten us. Why do u think Nagato can't absorb perfect Susano?
    He absorb Killerbee tailed beast form on impact(Intantly) and do not be deceived but it has more chakra than Susanoo
    He can absorb Fuuton rasen shuriken and repel it

    In fact not only can he absorb that Susanoo but he can probably repel it too with ST ^_^
    I don't think totsuka no tsurugi can be swallowed. We saw Itachi piercing nagato after all.

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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by metalia View Post
    I don't think totsuka no tsurugi can be swallowed. We saw Itachi piercing nagato after all.
    Pierced Nagato when he had his vision obstructed u might want to add ^_^

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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Pierced Nagato when he had his vision obstructed u might want to add ^_^
    What obstructed vision? You mean that cloud of dust that any capable shinobi can create by simply smashing the ground? Heck, that dust cloud certainly didn't stop Itachi from stabbing him in the chest. Frankly, despite all of Nagato's Rinnegan powers, the guy has been a complete noob when it comes to actual combat skills. He has been consistently troubled by lesser opponents from Kakashi to even Konohamaru. He was even somewhat reluctant to face Jiraiya in a direct head on confrontation. Someone as skilled and experienced as Madara would surely find ways to take advantage of his inept combat skills especially since he's probably more knowledgeable about the Rinnegan than Nagato himself. Madara can simply shoot a Katon with shurikens hidden in it and it would stab Nagato right in the head while he's busy trying to absorb the ninjutsu. That is how crappy I think Nagato's actual skills are if you disregard his Riinnegan powers.

    Nagato also lacks an offensive jutsu capable of actually busting through Madara's Susanoo's defense, especially it's perfect form. The only thing that can remotely threaten it is CT, super ST, and maybe chakra absorption. Madara's Susanoo's magatamas needed the combined powers of Gaara's sand and Oonoki's stone Golem to stop it. That is arguably enough to blowup the CT orb and even if it doesn't, I'm not convinced that it can even hold the perfect Susanoo indefinitely. Nagato's base ST at best can only knock Susanoo back a short distance, and I doubt it can even do that as a six-tailed Naruto completely turned its power right back at Deva path. Madara's Susanoo has the power to hold up against multiple attacks from the Naruto and the Kages, so it shouldn't have any problems against base ST. The super ST can potentially harm Madara through his Susanoo, but its mostly knockback damage that won't actually cause any lethal penetrating damage. And since using super ST would leave Nagato ST-less, he is basically easy pickings. And lastly, lets just say I doubt Nagato has the time to get in close range to completely absorb Susanoo without getting killed while he is doing so.

    So with Nagato having so much difficulty to even harm Madara, I'm pretty certain Madara will be able to find an opening to kill Nagato. Madara is faster, more experienced and skilled, and have more explosive offensive jutsus. Not much of a fight if you ask me.
    Last edited by chilibun; July 04, 2012 at 08:22 PM.

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  16. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato VS Madara (no Rinnengan)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Pls enlighten us. Why do u think Nagato can't absorb perfect Susano?
    He absorb Killerbee tailed beast form on impact(Intantly) and do not be deceived but it has more chakra than Susanoo
    He can absorb Fuuton rasen shuriken and repel it

    In fact not only can he absorb that Susanoo but he can probably repel it too with ST ^_^
    Madara said his clone couldn't use absorbing thecnique because they had Susanoo , even Madara himself only using absorbing jutsu after deactive his susanoo ...

    so that mean he couldn't absorb Susanoo ... if he could absorb Susanoo , he simply could do it and absorb both Susanoo and jinton in the same time ... after all he can active his susanoo in blink of an eye .... and he won't loss any chakra by absorbing Susanoo ....

    beside , Susanoo made from Spiritual energy not only chakra ( It use user live ) .... Are you think Both Sasuke and Itachi had enough chakra to create a monster from nowhere !?
    خداحافظ

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