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Thread: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

  1. #61
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    Sigh. That seems to be the consensus all the time.

    "Who's better between Minato and random ninja? Minato of course! What's that? You want me to explain why? Dunno. He's just... better?"

    Overall a better shinobi? He's shown more abilities than Sandaime Raikage, but out of the limited showings they've had Raikage has shown to be leagues superior in pure destructive power aswell as stamina and defense. So no, he's not overall better, since these are 3 aspects of combat Raikage dwarfs him in.

    Minato is faster (only with Hiraishin)... and has access to more jutsu. That's literally it. Hardly makes him greater overall. Just greater in limited areas.

  2. #62
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Yes casual speed. You are free to provide me with Bee's starting point but i am sure you can't as it was off panel. Not only that Suigetsu was able to move faster meterts before Raikage could swing down. Again not full speed and its irrelevant.

    Now why would be Bee get ripped in half? Because of this:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/13
    Then you add the fact that its going in combo with the 3'ths ultimate weapon thing.

    Now you can provide me with feats from Bee's shield (BEE'S) that can take that.

    Kisame was on death's door from Bee's charge. He was FINISHED. What i showed you above would ripp samehada, Bee, Bee's lvl 2 shield in half. Then Samehada can try to heal both of them when its in half (it and Bee).

    Of course as i said if you have feats from BEE that can take the above... Well you are free to provide them but full form aparently got a huge, HUGE hole in his chest or shoulder from a stupid horn and we have the 4'th cutting move >>>>>>>> 8 tails (not that biju who is lower in power) in cutting power... Now imagine the 3'th move + tsuck...
    There's a difference between the two. Ee was stationary when Suigetsu came in, while Kirabi came in when both Ee and Naruto were in the middle of acting. His appearance even surprised both of them, despite their enhanced reflexes. In addition, Kirabi hasn't had any trouble keeping up alongside Naruto in battle and moving the same distances as Ee against Kisame.

    How does that mean Kirabi would be ripped in half? A broken riblet does not equal being cut in half. Ee broke Sasuke's riblet Susanoo on his own, yet Naruto with his cloak had little trouble enduring a blow. And considering the Raikage's attack could be endured by rubber, I see nothing suggesting Kirabi's cloak would fail. Heck, Kirabi without any defensive abilities took a Lariat from a cloaked Ee without an injury. We already know a lesser cloak can block a similar attack without a dent, and the secondary cloaks are more defensive then the complete transformations. So Onoki's upgrade probably would allow it to do some damage, but not to the point of ripping Kirabi in half.

  3. #63
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    @Impossibility

    Quote Quote:
    I'm going to point out Bee's skirmish with A, as well as his brief skirmish with Minato, to show his speed and how he handles the speed of others. You're going to suggest that that is insufficient to support my argument. I'm going to disagree, and then you're going to disagree, and so I'm just going to skip ahead and say that we probably disagree on this matter and are unlikely to agree anytime in the near future.
    It is insufficient you are comparing (example) me walking but not with me running.
    Vs Minato.
    He never MOVED. He grew a tentacle. That is not speed.

    Do you have 1 instance where Raikage is going full speed? You know the move that he, himself stated nobody but Minato ever dodged? I am sure Bee and Raikage had a LOT of small training fights...
    Again not relevant if he is not using his full speed.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't really see how little Oonoki is going to hold on with his legs. Raikage holding on to Oonoki seems immensely awkward and wholly unfeasible as an actual strategy in the middle of this battle. And to be honest, the fact that we've reached a point at which we're now discussing Raikage cradling Oonoki in his arm is, to me, really ridiculous, and so I'm going to say that our discussion has definitely reached a dead-end.
    Simple.. You just need leg muscles. Not sure if he has those at his age but we have other ways.
    4'th Raikage is curently fighting with -1 hand so the 3'th using 1 hand to hold him there makes perfect sense especialy when he needs to hold him only when Tsuck needs to do handseals.
    Not only that but the team has prep here... A LOT OF IT. They could just tie Tsuck to Raikage's back and be done with it.

    You think that is absurd to debate Raikage holding Tsuck on his back as Tsuck blasts the entire area? What is the diference from Tsuck holding himself there and Raikage doing it? It matters not how 'baby like" or whatever a move looks in a life or death situation. Anything to win. Tactis are VALID expesial when they did something close on the manga.

    @Rikudou King

    Quote Quote:
    There's a difference between the two. Ee was stationary when Suigetsu came in, while Kirabi came in when both Ee and Naruto were in the middle of acting. His appearance even surprised both of them, despite their enhanced reflexes. In addition, Kirabi hasn't had any trouble keeping up alongside Naruto in battle and moving the same distances as Ee against Kisame.
    How is that even relevant? Raikage just SWINGED DOWN. Like in moving his hand some 30-50 cm's.... If Suigetsu can move and intercept before that... NOT IMPRESIVE. Raikage would defenetly move his hand 30 cm's (or whatever) faster then running 1-2m and then swinging or whatever.
    Now Bee was doing what you state there when they where not going at full speed... I don't care for casual speed with no shunshin. Sasuke was DODGING Bee going at full speed but he is not dodging Raikage now is he? He can dodge Raikage but on CASUAL SPEED, top speed Sasuke is a statue.

    Again only full speed thing matters. Then add to this Tsuck INCREASING HIS SPEED like in the manga. Not sure if Bee can even see him...

    Quote Quote:
    How does that mean Kirabi would be ripped in half? A broken riblet does not equal being cut in half. Ee broke Sasuke's riblet Susanoo on his own, yet Naruto with his cloak had little trouble enduring a blow. And considering the Raikage's attack could be endured by rubber, I see nothing suggesting Kirabi's cloak would fail. Heck, Kirabi without any defensive abilities took a Lariat from a cloaked Ee without an injury. We already know a lesser cloak can block a similar attack without a dent, and the secondary cloaks are more defensive then the complete transformations. So Onoki's upgrade probably would allow it to do some damage, but not to the point of ripping Kirabi in half.
    Just curious but did you cliked on this link?
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/13

    If you did please tell me how can you compare the above to Raikage blasting MADARA's SUSANO and then using the 3'ths move that made a hole in his ultimate body???

    USE THIS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/13
    + THIS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/555/14

    Its going to be the ABOVE combo with Tsuck + Raikage ULTIMATE WEAPON (not the 4'th small punch...).

    What you did above is me stating that X caracter has a nuke but you are telling me he can't use his handgun to take down a tank...

    Yes Bee has no feats to show him not getting cut in half from the above. Shield or not, Samehada or not, full biju form or not. Just aim for the brain... Even the 4'th cut his horn ALONE ... Going trough a skull that is not as tich as a horn is going to be easy as pie.
    Last edited by xXan; June 26, 2012 at 02:34 AM.

  4. #64
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RezzieThaRapper's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    I have a question, is Dust release stronger than a biju dama... because that would be the only way Minato could attempt to win this thing... by making both clones fight Oonoki and deflect his Dust release into Raikage with S/T Barrier...
    I have an opinionDon't hate me for it...

  5. #65
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    He'd need to get a tag on Raigake first so he can make sure he sends the Dust toward Raikage. Which is easier said than done. Not to mention, if Raikage is still running at Ee's level of speed and he runs to Minato while he's sitting still to deflect the Dust release, then when it hits Raikage the resulting explosion would take them both out.

    And even then it's still possible 3rd Raikage could survive the attack if it's not stronger than a Bijuudama.

  6. #66
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    None of that is going to happen if they fight like curently in the manga. Tsuck riding on Raikage's back.

  7. #67
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Oonoki, Jiraya, Third Raikage vs. Minato, Deidara, Killer Bee

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    How is that even relevant? Raikage just SWINGED DOWN. Like in moving his hand some 30-50 cm's.... If Suigetsu can move and intercept before that... NOT IMPRESIVE. Raikage would defenetly move his hand 30 cm's (or whatever) faster then running 1-2m and then swinging or whatever.
    Now Bee was doing what you state there when they where not going at full speed... I don't care for casual speed with no shunshin. Sasuke was DODGING Bee going at full speed but he is not dodging Raikage now is he? He can dodge Raikage but on CASUAL SPEED, top speed Sasuke is a statue.

    Again only full speed thing matters. Then add to this Tsuck INCREASING HIS SPEED like in the manga. Not sure if Bee can even see him...
    Ee didn't drop his arm any faster then Darui dropped his blade, so presuming that it's some speed feat doesn't make sense. Not going full speed? Both Ee and Naruto were seriously fighting against each other and Kirabi intercepted both before they realize it. That's not even getting into the fact that Kirabi has been capable of catching Ee and blocking Minato with the speed of the tentacles. And if Kirabi could see Naruto shunshin against Kisame, then he'll be able to to handle the Raikage's upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Just curious but did you cliked on this link?
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/13

    If you did please tell me how can you compare the above to Raikage blasting MADARA's SUSANO and then using the 3'ths move that made a hole in his ultimate body???

    USE THIS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/13
    + THIS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/555/14

    Its going to be the ABOVE combo with Tsuck + Raikage ULTIMATE WEAPON (not the 4'th small punch...).

    What you did above is me stating that X caracter has a nuke but you are telling me he can't use his handgun to take down a tank...

    Yes Bee has no feats to show him not getting cut in half from the above. Shield or not, Samehada or not, full biju form or not. Just aim for the brain... Even the 4'th cut his horn ALONE ... Going trough a skull that is not as tich as a horn is going to be easy as pie.
    Hole? It was a crack riblet. You're making the wound the Raikage gave himself out bigger then it was. It was still a relatively similar size hole. In addition, it should be pointed out that a good chunk of the Raikage's spear is nothing more then chakra, meaning it shouldn't get pass Samehame. The Raikage's "ultimate attack" on it's own had trouble ripping through rubber and took time to rip through an earthen wall, despite being offensively superior.

    And I pointed out Kirabi's feat. He was tough enough even without his cloak to tank a blow from his cloaked brother, despite the power shown in Ee's blows. That was done without the power of the secondary cloak, which was shown defensively able to handle a piercing attack similar to the Raikage's ultimate one. Between that and the previous mentioned slowest in getting through defenses it held an advantage over, there's nothing suggesting that the Raikage's attack on it's own would be capable of doing any damage to Kirabi in his secondary cloak, much less get through Samehade before it's absorbed. The strength of a piercing attack can't be transferred through like the strength of a blunt force, since you will notice that Kirabi's attack against Kisame didn't go through Samehade, but transfer the power through. Since the Raikage's attack on it's own won't be doing damage, it being enhanced by Onoki will at most will make a similar hole as it did against the Raikage himself. That's assuming the spear of chakra isn't absorbed by Samehade before they get to Kirabi. Reagrdless, the damage isn't gonna be so much that it'll "rip Kirabi in half". If the Raikage's ultimate attack wasn't gonna kill Naruto, it sure as heck isn't gonna kill Kirabi.

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