Naruto 591 Discussion

[toussaintac]

Pls, prove those mentioned 'facts' of yours. Tobi said that he was the one that gave Nagato those eyes, but this guy also claimed that he is Madara. He isn't who he claimed to be, so it's not far fetched that he didn't do what he claimed to have done.

Well, the thing about that is, if Madara died with Rinnegan then Tobi should've had the Rinnegan since they were working together. I guess it's possible that Madara hadn't awakened the Rinnegan before he died. Maybe they needed someone that could awaken it at some point. So they chose Nagato for whatever reason. Not sure why Tobi wouldn't have been able to do it though. Too many open ends to piece together a better theory. Hopefully, Madara and Tobi do some talking. I wish Nagato could've told us something before dying.

[chilibun]

Pls, prove those mentioned 'facts' of yours. Tobi said that he was the one that gave Nagato those eyes, but this guy also claimed that he is Madara. He isn't who he claimed to be, so it's not far fetched that he didn't do what he claimed to have done.

Because Tobi has no reason to lie to Konan, who he is about to kill. Madara's knowledge of Nagato further proves that he and Tobi had a hand in Nagato's acquisition of the Rinnegan. Whether its a direct eye implantation, genetic manipulation, etc. are still left to be confirmed, but they definitely had something to do with it.

[Murdock]

I would love to know how Tobi implanted those eyes in the short amount of time it took Jiraiya to reach Nagato's and the others' location. Jiraiya had to have seen Nagato's eyes before then and the way he rected to his eyes after coming to their rescue, he had never seen his eyes like that before.

We don't know if J-Man saw those eyes ... as far as we know first time he saw them was the same time we saw them ... He could have them since the beginning ...

Pls, prove those mentioned 'facts' of yours. Tobi said that he was the one that gave Nagato those eyes, but this guy also claimed that he is Madara. He isn't who he claimed to be, so it's not far fetched that he didn't do what he claimed to have done.

In my opinion he is partialy Madara ...

Well, the thing about that is, if Madara died with Rinnegan then Tobi should've had the Rinnegan since they were working together. I guess it's possible that Madara hadn't awakened the Rinnegan before he died. Maybe they needed someone that could awaken it at some point. So they chose Nagato for whatever reason. Not sure why Tobi wouldn't have been able to do it though. Too many open ends to piece together a better theory. Hopefully, Madara and Tobi do some talking. I wish Nagato could've told us something before dying.

Tobi indeed is Madara in some sence ... My theory and from other various groups is something like this ... Madara after VotE fight went into hiding and did some experimenting - created Zetsu, Tobi and that Hashirama root or what ever you wanna call it ... then he developed Rinnegan, after that he inserted some memories, or just taught Tobi (his creation - Madara's and Hashirama's cells) everything he wanted him to know (but more likely they share some memories and part of the personality), they developed a plan to do whatever they wanted before Madara died... Told him that after his death to give his eyes to Nagato and when he is strong enough to revive him - that didn't happened thus plan B - Eye of the mood or what ever

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6mjoalKCoI&feature=plcp basically I think the same ... Tobi Madara and Zetsu's are all connected and most likely Created by Madara ...

[toussaintac]

We don't know if J-Man saw those eyes ... as far as we know first time he saw them was the same time we saw them ... He could have them since the beginning ...



In my opinion he is partialy Madara ...



Tobi indeed is Madara in some sence ... My theory and from other various groups is something like this ... Madara after VotE fight went into hiding and did some experimenting - created Zetsu, Tobi and that Hashirama root or what ever you wanna call it ... then he developed Rinnegan, after that he inserted some memories, or just taught Tobi (his creation - Madara's and Hashirama's cells) everything he wanted him to know (but more likely they share some memories and part of the personality), they developed a plan to do whatever they wanted before Madara died... Told him that after his death to give his eyes to Nagato and when he is strong enough to revive him - that didn't happened thus plan B - Eye of the mood or what ever

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6mjoalKCoI&feature=plcp basically I think the same ... Tobi Madara and Zetsu's are all connected and most likely Created by Madara ...

I don't understand why they would choose Nagato, though. Why not just let Tobi use the Rinnegan if he already had part of Madara and hashirama inside of him? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Invader]

i want to see sasuke beat madara, itachi say if he get sasuke eyes, he was going to surpass madara, and be the strongest uchiha.

I think you'll get your wish, because (IMO) that is where this is going. ET Madara will fight Sauske and Sauske will win - possibly picking up the Rinnegan on the way - thereby proving himself the best 'Uchiha' that ever lived. I don't say I agree with it, or that it makes any sense. That's just where (thematically) I think it is inevitably headed.

[Kisame Hoshigaki]

Because Tobi has no reason to lie to Konan, who he is about to kill. Madara's knowledge of Nagato further proves that he and Tobi had a hand in Nagato's acquisition of the Rinnegan. Whether its a direct eye implantation, genetic manipulation, etc. are still left to be confirmed, but they definitely had something to do with it.

i agree at this point it is obvious that tobi had something to do with nagato obtaining the rinnegan
i really hope tobi doesnt kick the bucket before all of his mysteries are revealed

[narengan]

Perhaps Tobi told Konan all that to break her will. He's eloquent and knows what to say in the right moments. We don't know for sure.
Nagato, Madara, Tobi - all of them are connected in an unknown way, so it's all just speculiation.

In addition, there's one thing troubling me. As Nagato fully awakened the Rinnegan he never switched them off on purpose, like the Uchiha did with their Sharingan - rather we never saw him doing it. But before he awakened it to it's full potential, it sometimes triggered by certain actions - but wasn't permament from the beginning. To me, it kinda seems like a development. That wouldn't have been the case, when he got those eyes - let's say transplanted, I guess there's no other way to actually 'give' someone eyes like that.

Just a thought.

[mattiaildivino]

I think you'll get your wish, because (IMO) that is where this is going. ET Madara will fight Sauske and Sauske will win - possibly picking up the Rinnegan on the way - thereby proving himself the best 'Uchiha' that ever lived. I don't say I agree with it, or that it makes any sense. That's just where (thematically) I think it is inevitably headed.

I doubt sasuke wil fight madara,but maybe he will be forced because of the latter,who will want to kill him. Btw,itachi didn't expect madara to possess the rinnegan,hence there is no way sasuke will surpass him with his current ems.
On a side note,why do you always call him "sauske" rather than "sasuke"?

[Murdock]

I don't understand why they would choose Nagato, though. Why not just let Tobi use the Rinnegan if he already had part of Madara and hashirama inside of him? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

A lot of things doesn't make sence in this Manga... Why didn't Nagato revive Yahiko instead making Pain from his body... also who knows? Maybe Tobi had to grow (like a plant before taking those eyes) no idea ... but there are many things that doesn't make sence in this manga you can't put too much thought into it - you'll go mad - believe I tried

for instance: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/432/5 - why that Pain grabbed the summoning one instead of both jumping up? ... a plot developement ... you gotta live with it ...

Why FRS didn't killed 3rd Raikage when it should have based on affinities and strengths of jutsus ... it was said that Fuuton was the strongest not it is lighting...

Also he may not have any DNA of madara but just his consciousness/memories/built in plan what ever

Also who knows at that time maybe Tobi was in all actuality Madara but Kishi decided to change that thus whole Nagato persona had changed too

I don't believe Kishi's storytelling one bit ... I think he had no clue how is it gonna end when he started this manga...

[Invader]

On a side note,why do you always call him "sauske" rather than "sasuke"?

Because I'm misspelling it. My brain for some reason just spells it that way. Maybe its because the word is pronounced "SAUCE-KAY" and the correct spelling makes it look like it should be pronounced "SASS-OOK-AY", at least in English. Not saying that's why, but that's how my brain wants to do it every time I type it.

How about I just call him my usual standby? Captain Emo...

[jalix]

I doubt sasuke wil fight madara,but maybe he will be forced because of the latter,who will want to kill him. Btw,itachi didn't expect madara to possess the rinnegan,hence there is no way sasuke will surpass him with his current ems.
On a side note,why do you always call him "sauske" rather than "sasuke"?

I actually think Sasuke was meant to be Madara's 'host'. Not sure how, or if it makes sense, but really do. It may not be what Itachi knew, but Itachi wasn't supposed to know everything, as Tobi hinted when he got out of Amaterasu. The rinnegan RT was supposed to be for Tobi, but not sure if it was meant to be Tobi or Madara. So A lot goes into the mystery of Tobi. It might go with the Tobi=Zetsu goo theory.

A lot of things doesn't make sence in this Manga... Why didn't Nagato revive Yahiko instead making Pain from his body... also who knows? Maybe Tobi had to grow (like a plant before taking those eyes) no idea ... but there are many things that doesn't make sence in this manga you can't put too much thought into it - you'll go mad - believe I tried

for instance: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/432/5 - why that Pain grabbed the summoning one instead of both jumping up? ... a plot developement ... you gotta live with it ...

Why FRS didn't killed 3rd Raikage when it should have based on affinities and strengths of jutsus ... it was said that Fuuton was the strongest not it is lighting...

Also he may not have any DNA of madara but just his consciousness/memories/built in plan what ever

Also who knows at that time maybe Tobi was in all actuality Madara but Kishi decided to change that thus whole Nagato persona had changed too

I don't believe Kishi's storytelling one bit ... I think he had no clue how is it gonna end when he started this manga...

TBH I didn't quite understand all of the post, but one thing that you are dead on about was Nagato and Yahiko. The only explanation I can think of is that maybe at the time, Yahiko didn't know he could do it and/or, maybe he couldn't do it because it had to be someone killed because of him. Of course that adds a wrinkle into the 'Nagato was supposed to revive Madara with the RT' theory'... unless somehow, maybe unkowingly, Nagato actually was the one who 'killed' Madara.

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------

Because I'm misspelling it. My brain for some reason just spells it that way. Maybe its because the word is pronounced "SAUCE-KAY" and the correct spelling makes it look like it should be pronounced "SASS-OOK-AY", at least in English. Not saying that's why, but that's how my brain wants to do it every time I type it.

How about I just call him my usual standby? Captain Emo...

heh... I thought you were just doing it because he seems to get a little extra 'special sauce' from Kishi in the manga.

[Murdock]

TBH I didn't quite understand all of the post, but one thing that you are dead on about was Nagato and Yahiko. The only explanation I can think of is that maybe at the time, Yahiko didn't know he could do it and/or, maybe he couldn't do it because it had to be someone killed because of him. Of course that adds a wrinkle into the 'Nagato was supposed to revive Madara with the RT' theory'... unless somehow, maybe unkowingly, Nagato actually was the one who 'killed' Madara.
)

It's just the flow of my thoughts, and what-ifs and possible scenarios ...

The main idea behind it is that Tobi is most likely Madara's creation (most likely from Hashirama's DNA, possibly Madara's too), and that those two are connected - sharing memories and a plan instructed by Madara

[Rikudou King]

I don't understand why they would choose Nagato, though. Why not just let Tobi use the Rinnegan if he already had part of Madara and hashirama inside of him? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

They wanted someone sync with the Gedo Mazo and we saw that connecting with the Gedo Mazo had some major drawbacks. So they likely didn't want to limit Tobi when there was other options available.

Perhaps Tobi told Konan all that to break her will. He's eloquent and knows what to say in the right moments. We don't know for sure.
Nagato, Madara, Tobi - all of them are connected in an unknown way, so it's all just speculiation.

In addition, there's one thing troubling me. As Nagato fully awakened the Rinnegan he never switched them off on purpose, like the Uchiha did with their Sharingan - rather we never saw him doing it. But before he awakened it to it's full potential, it sometimes triggered by certain actions - but wasn't permament from the beginning. To me, it kinda seems like a development. That wouldn't have been the case, when he got those eyes - let's say transplanted, I guess there's no other way to actually 'give' someone eyes like that.

Just a thought.

We never saw Nagato switch off the Rinnegan at all, his eyes were hidden by his hair.

[toussaintac]

They wanted someone sync with the Gedo Mazo and we saw that connecting with the Gedo Mazo had some major drawbacks. So they likely didn't want to limit Tobi when there was other options available.

We never saw Nagato switch off the Rinnegan at all, his eyes were hidden by his hair.

That would make some sense except we see Tobi is using Gedo Mazo as we speak. What's happened to him since he got Rinnegan and started using Gedo that would be considered negative?

[narengan]

But Jirayja noticed the Rinnegan later, not from the very start. But to that moment, Nagato had already killed the guys that killed his parents and awakened the Rinnegan the first time.