One Piece 673 Discussion

[k-dom]

So does anyone else think the VP in chapter 594 is Vergo?

No his name his Brandnew, he is always the one making big speeches and was introduced for Luffy first bounty

[Ero-Sanji]

I don't think flamingo would be behind the medicine. The whole reason for that is that flamingo's sign is a crossed over smiley. In all likelihood whatever person was behind the sign of WB's medicine was unrelated to flamingo.

This could be a way to deviate himself against the smiley trend, which he himself said was a growing trend. What I'm trying to say is that while "Joker", a nickname which suits a smiley, has started the symbol of the new era(the smiley) Doflamingo has opposed himself toward it by making an anti-smiley campaign to erase him as much as possible from the "Joker".

[Finale]

I'm beginning to wonder what role Kinemon's son plays in all this. He wasn't with the other children and as far as test subjects go why would you kidnap someone that has a renowned father? I believe that Momonosuke is special in some way beyond just being Kinemon's son.

[ukimix]

I'm beginning to wonder what role Kinemon's son plays in all this. He wasn't with the other children and as far as test subjects go why would you kidnap someone that has a renowned father? I believe that Momonosuke is special in some way beyond just being Kinemon's son.

This, one possible role for Momo. In the plot, final happiest scene could be kinemo and momo encounter. It fits perfectly, since the plot begins with a call from someone attacked by a crazy swordsman that later was found bravely fighting for recover his beloved son.

[BlackHair]

Beck
The weakness in you theory is AoKiji himself. He is too big of a character to appear right now. By just appearing in the story, he would devalue the already established characters in this arc. Thus he would end up damaging the plot. I mean by appearing as a good guy he would outshine Law, Kinemon and the SHs themselves. Likewise, by appearing as a bad guy he would easily overshadow Ceaser, Mone, Virgo and probably even Doflamingo. For the sake of the plot, it is rly better off letting him not appear. Not to mention it is more wise to let him appear later to play a centre figure on his own, rather than a support character.

Furthermore I disagree with ur character profile on AoKiji. He is certainly often described as lazy, but he will act if his justice requires for it. I mean he is the man who stepped up to fight Akainu, in order to avoid leadership by a war hungry and bloodthirsty marine. As a soldier who fights for his sense of justice, there is no way he will disappear from the world for two whole years. As to his sleeping behaviour, that is nothing more than a joke. It's not like he would hibernate for two years on a forsaken island.

Not that I have anything against AoKiji or ur theory, I just think the build-up is not solid enough. But more importantly. I just don't want him to appear. I think he would just bring chaos to the current plot. I also think it would be more wise, to have him later in a plot dedicated for his own arc. I believe he deservers that much.

matzik1212
I'm sry. I had to post my thoughts on the AoKiji discussion. It is my first and last one. xD

Finale
I don't think his son is on PH. Therefore I believe in order to search for his son, Kinemon will temporarily join the SHs. Like Vivi once did.

[chess4]

I'm beginning to wonder what role Kinemon's son plays in all this. He wasn't with the other children and as far as test subjects go why would you kidnap someone that has a renowned father? I believe that Momonosuke is special in some way beyond just being Kinemon's son.

i think momonosake is dead and the son that kinemon is talking about is some type of toy or object that was his sons' at one point. I say that because if he were alive we would have seen him once, even if only for a split second.

I think kinemon cant handle the pain of losing his son and is always on these wild goose chases. Oda hasnt given a strawhat the backstory of his wife and kid dying, so maybe kinemon is the next nakama

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

am also interested in kinemon's son.am beginning to believe he could possibly dictate the narrative in PH for a while...what if some of ceasar's gigantification experiments have actually become successful as in non-reversible...maybe ceasar then sent the completes to dress rossa to recruit for doflamingo's army or something...at that point the strawhats would definitely have to go there and confront doflamingo.

[ukimix]

Some chapters ago, we were exchanging ideas about how, in that time, the mysterious guy could beat Law. Three theories, as far as I remember, were in the run:

1. Using haki,

2. Heart theory

3 Using DF power

Heart theory went more or less this way:

But heart theory needs some more revision, because the removing of Law's heart should happen several years ago, and not recently. So there is confilct with your bet on WG new policy towards shishibukay, since that would have to happen recently.

The theory could be fixed this way (sorry to quote myself):

1. Law was a child when he ate ope ope no mi fruit, (like Luffy)

2. Being a child, Law met a not very nice guy like shanks (as happens to luffy), but a really ugly guy that played with and humiliated him, and ultimately forced Law to use his own powers in himself and to remove his own heart. Reasons to do that: it could be only for this ugly guy pleasure, and the heart could be kept only as a bizarre treasure. (and that is just one of many possibilities)

3. Law grew and recruit a crew. He called his crew: 'heart pirates' because of his heart incident on his childhood.

... then it would comes, already known events summarized by resgia here.

the heart childhood incident lead/take Law to some kind of actions involving heart of enemies... And, of course, still there would be mysteries to solve...

Now that we know about Wergo and Dofla, I would say that Wergo must have been using DF power to beat Law. (I don't see him taking Law's heart and using in the last 2 chapter to fight Law).

But also, Dofla has precisely the kind of power to make Law to remove his own heart. So heart theory could still be right, but not about how Wergo beat Law, but about what Law wants to get back, and possibly about why he can't kidnap CC.

[Kaiten]

Why does everyone assume Momonosake is a child? He was not in Biscuit's room with the other kidnapped kids. Kinemon said he needed to rescue his son, not that his son was kidnapped. I can not deny that Momonosake is probably a kidnapped child, that is the most logical conclusion to draw. The longer it takes for them to find him, the more suspicious I get, the more it seems there is a surprise coming. I do agree that Kinemon and Momonosake are the key to this arc. If nothing else Kinemon will help free Luffy and Law, and help them fight Vergo.

No more Aokiji predictions. Whether proven right or wrong it is completely random, and has nothing to do with the events of this chapter. Anybody whowants to predict Aokiji will return to Punk Hazard can start a new thread in the Tree of Knowledge, or post in Aokiji's thread.

[BlackHair]

I think Vergo has something up to his sleeve to force Law down. Some advantage he acquired in their earlier days. If it is related to his df, then he has something (df-ability) implanted in Laws body. If its his heart, Law as no chance fighting back. Either way, Vergo has a advantage on Law.

Im strictly against CoC theory. Because kings haki should only serve as a advantage facing fodders, but not against strong/equal opponents. I don't want this ability to be portrayed as some random "god skill", which could serve in any though situation as a ass-pull technique. I would very much dislike that. CoC should stay as it is. A ability to over power weak opponent's will.

I'm supporting the heart theory. I think to demonstrate their loyalty towards the organisation and Flamingo, all members had to cut out their heart. Most likely it was Law who did the surgery, or perhaps it was Doflamingo himself. Either way I believe the organisation has Law's heart and I think Joker has Vergo's heart... This is pretty much a long shot of a theory, I admit that, but well I give it a shot.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I believe Vergo must have used DF ability as it seemed to easy for him to overpower Law without doing practically anything, especially as we know that Law is very powerful as he managed to take down Smoker who is low-tier, but still Vice Admiral and that's not a joke. Also we've seen that it was pointed that he had a part of steak attached to his face. I doubt it was just for joke. I believe it was in order to foreshadow his DF ability and I know that there are many people who also suggested such a thought, so I believe we might see this ability later in the Arc.
I believe Vergo might be one of the strongest among Do Flamingo's subordinates. Though I don't know if he is the strongest. It would be quite interesting if it happens that he is only the second or even the third strongest in Do Flamingo's organisation. Still, no doubt that after this Arc we will undoubtly see confrontation between Do Flamingo and Luffy's crew.
Also it's quite a good parralel with Crocodile and his Baroque Works. Robin even commented on this by making a parralel with Smokey and Luffy sitting again in the cage together.

[Page356]

Not to incur the wrath of the moderators or anything, but how come nobody can talk about Aokiji? The thread clearly states it's a 674 prediction thread. I don't neccessarily want to talk about him anymore myself, but despite what some may think he would do to the plot (you know, like exactly what Vergo did by being a new, really powerful character who overshadowed others) , there's a small chance he could actually show up and/or be the key Law is looking for and with Oda's magical storytelling ability be a perfect plot twist. Even if he isn't, sometimes listening to these crazy theories and arguing about them provides the insight to figure out what will really happen.

[jamarTheDem]

I think Vergo has a Magnetic ability. Why? Because the burger was on his face is clearly showing us that it was "contracted" to his face, there no way a big piece of burger can just stick to a normal person face without fall. Its make me think that, that's why Law was on the ground coughing up blood, because he used the magnetic powers to force Law on the ground hard, maybe even used it on one of his organs, and when he knocked out Law he used Busoshoku Haki on his weapon..Vergo is amazingly strong Character if im right

I wanna say something about Luffy: I think Luffy got a new Tattoo covering the 3D 2Y symbol, I can't prove nothing yet, but Oda did put sleeves covering the tattoo mark on his arm. (I think he added sleeves on purpose) But if luffy do have a new tattoo, thats go be cool

[Kaiten]

I think Vergo has something up to his sleeve to force Law down. Some advantage he acquired in their earlier days. If it is related to his df, then he has something (df-ability) implanted in Laws body. If its his heart, Law as no chance fighting back. Either way, Vergo has a advantage on Law.

Im strictly against CoC theory. Because kings haki should only serve as a advantage facing fodders, but not against strong/equal opponents. I don't want this ability to be portrayed as some random "god skill", which could serve in any though situation as a ass-pull technique. I would very much dislike that. CoC should stay as it is. A ability to over power weak opponent's will.

I'm supporting the heart theory. I think to demonstrate their loyalty towards the organisation and Flamingo, all members had to cut out their heart. Most likely it was Law who did the surgery, or perhaps it was Doflamingo himself. Either way I believe the organisation has Law's heart and I think Joker has Vergo's heart... This is pretty much a long shot of a theory, I admit that, but well I give it a shot.

The heart theory is so fucking ridiculous

After Vergo knocked Law senseless with one strike from a bamboo staff, why is a theory even necessary? Vergo clearly used an unknown power, unrelated to Law's heart, to harden the staff. If his heart was stolen, why is Oda still keeping such it a secret after Vergo imprisoned Law? With the plot progressing past Law's defeat, how is it even relevant anymore? Why would Law reveal that he is a former member of Doflamingo's crew, that Doflamingo is Joker, but not mention that Doflamingo forced him to steal his own heart as a child? If that is how Vergo defeated him, wouldn't it be relevant to the immediate plot, due immediate explanation? Why would a character as ruthless as Doflamingo control someone's heart but not use it? Law clearly is not a pawn of Doflamingo, nor is there any reason to predict he is.

Sadly, your opinion about conqueror's haki contradicts what the manga tells us. We know how conqueror's haki works, there are no mysteries to left to unravel. We know that it is an expression of a characters resolve, used to overwhelm the opponents will, and that it can be strengthened by personal growth. The effect of conqueror's haki depends on the discrepancy between the users inner strength and the opponents will power. No upper limit was placed on this ability. A characters conqueror's haki can grow as their resolve grows. The greater the difference between the users inner strength and their opponents will, the greater the effect the haki will have. This was reinforced as recently as chapter 672. CC was identified as to close in power to Luffy for conqueror's haki to knock him out. All but the most biased should understand the implication of that statement. If Luffy had been weaker than CC, a knock out would have been possible. Conversely, CC would have been able to knock Luffy out if he were stronger. A strong enough character (Roger, Shanks) would be able to use conqueror's haki to knock out stronger opponents than Luffy could. We also know that haki can be used for more than knocking characters out. When Rayleigh first explains conqueror's haki (link above), he even states that it is often found in the famous who make a global name for themselves. This ability to influence people has been demonstrated by Hancock, who uses conqueror's haki to make men do her bidding.

Knowing all of this, why put a lower limit on conqueror's haki? Claiming it is only good against fodder is akin to saying conqueror's haki has no lower limit, useless unless a one hit knock out can be delivered. That would be completely ridiculous and ignore everything we already know about haki. Based on what we know it is possible that a Vice Admiral could be strong enough to immobilize Law, but the difference in strength is not enough to knock him unconscious. That would be well within the limits Oda has written, and establish conqueror's haki being used at a lower level, something not yet seen. It certainly would be a more believable plot twist than Law forced to use own his signature attack (Heart Pirates ) on himself.

[McNuss]

But also, Dofla has precisely the kind of power to make Law to remove his own heart.

Does he? We don't know exactly what Doflamingos power is, but the manga gives evidence that he controlls people with invisible strings, just like puppets. If that's the case, his fruits power would most likely be limited to movement control. It clearly is not brain control, because all subjects he controlled were seen trying to resist the control.

So I don't see how he could force Law to use his devil fruit power on himself.

When Rayleigh first explains conqueror's haki (link above), he even states that it is often found in the famous who make a global name for themselves. This ability to influence people has been demonstrated by Hancock, who uses conqueror's haki to make men do her bidding.

I don't think that was Haki usage. Rayleigh said that conquerors haki is often found in the famous who make a global name for themselves. This doesn't really imply that CoC can be used to make people obey your biddings. It was just a comment that many of the big shots have it.