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Thread: Survivor tournament (preparations)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Survivor tournament (preparations)

    What do you think of creating a thread called Survivor where the most popular character would be chosen but unlike in the current threads where we point at most liked characters we eliminate the ones we like the least.

    Rules of the game:
    - We shoot only once during every round
    - We shoot to the character that takes part in a current pool
    - It's irrelavant that someone has already hit the person we wanted to shoot, we shoot her without scruples
    - The round wins character with least numbers of hits
    - The round lasts 2/4/7, etc. days (to the discussion, I suggest 2), after that the master of the game starts next round

    For example, let's say that in our version these characters would take part in tournament:

    On the left side:
    Clare vs. Ophelia
    Rubel vs. Theresa
    Irene vs. Miria
    Galatea vs. Duff


    On the right side:
    Rafaela vs. Jean
    Riful vs. Flora
    Rigald vs Cynthia
    Helen vs. Deneve


    First round:
    1st duel: Clare vs. Ophelia, Clare wins (i.e. Ophelia has received more head shots) and goes to the next round
    2nd duel: Rafaela vs. Jean, Jean wins (Rafaela is stabbed more times)
    3rd: Rubel vs. Teresa, Teresa wins
    4th: Riful vs. Flora, Riful wins
    5th: Irene vs. Miria, Irene wins
    6th: Rigald vs Cynthia, Cynthia wins
    7th: Galatea vs. Dauff, Galatea wins
    8th: Helen vs. Deneve, Helen wins

    Second round (quarterfinals):
    9th duel: Clare vs. Teresa, Teresa wins
    10th: Jean vs. Riful, Jean wins
    11th: Irene vs. Galatea, Galatea wins
    12th: Cynthia vs. Helen, Helen wins

    Third round (semifinals):
    13th duel: Teresa vs. Jean, Teresa wins
    14th duel: Galatea vs. Helen, Galatea wins

    Final round: Teresa vs. Galatea, Teresa wins (I've written to this point so Teresa could triumph :P).

    For aesthetic reasons there should be a board which would be updated after every duel. Something like the one below but not that lame. The one who makes the best board and knows the rules of the game should become the master of the game and creator of the thread. That won't be me, so if there are no volunteers, there will be no survivor.


    So it's like this, in the first round Ophelia's name appears 30 times, Clare's 3 times - Clare wins and the master of the game starts next round, updates the board, i.e. Ophelia's portrait becomes monochromatic/crossed out (that's why the master of the game should be the person who made the game and do necessary remaking). After that you can't shoot to Ophelia anymore. I hope it's clear.
    Because of the rules in survivor even very interesting character can drop out early, especially if someone doesn't read the rules and puts the name of a character he wants to go to the next round :].

    I suggest that in our version we would choose 32 characters so it would last longer (remember that if we want 1 vs 1 duels, than there can't be any number of characters but 2^x, which brings us to 16 or 32, but we can have 1 vs. 1 vs. 1 and then we can have 18 characters, or we can start at 1 vs. 1 vs 1 in the first round and 1 vs. 1 in the next). We can choose as well characters that appeared in anime and in the next edition if there would be interest, survivor would have more characters.
    So we have to decide which characters we want and more importantly who faces who in the first round. Completely random might not be a good idea, Galatea vs. Teresa, Clare vs. Miria should be left for the later.
    Please state your opinions, questions, etc.

    The idea taken from http://forum.azunime.net/viewtopic.p...t=1294&start=0. You can see there how this works in practice.
    Last edited by Goral; October 10, 2011 at 03:00 AM.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: An idea to make this subforum more lively

    It's a possibility. Plenty of forums offer a character battle system.

    For example, MH currently has one. OMF has one...

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: An idea to make this subforum more lively

    We could make survivor for most favorite character, hottest Claymore, best villain, etc. There are many possibilities. The chart/board is not absolutely necessary but it would certainly make this game better aesthetically. But the most crucial is that we do not vote on a character we want to win, we eliminate the character we do not want to win. Often, people who don't read the rules make a mistake and eliminate a character they wanted to go further which makes things more interesting and adds unpredictable element to it.

    Anyway, depending on the form this game would take this could require whole subforum. After initial preparations in this thread we would need a thread where we would nominate candidates we would like to see (it could be even this thread after changing the title) and then a thread for a survivor. But if there would be no chart/board and there would be groups similar to previous Claymore tournament subforum would be necessary.

    I recommend visiting Azunime forum to see some more examples (Archiwum = archive, where are old tournaments). You don't need to know Polish to know what's going on and to see different variants of this "game". Personally I like the variant with a chart/board the most:

    Last edited by Goral; October 09, 2011 at 01:10 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: An idea to make this subforum more lively

    Would you guys/girls like to set this up and run it on your own, with me only helping as needed, or would you rather the staff does this for you guys/girls?

    (it would be a lot of work for just me to do, and I'd have to ask the staff if they would want to help with this, if you want us-staff to do it for you)

    the idea sounds good/interesting, and I don't see any problems with it, as it's great to see members being interested in increasing this forum's activity/popularity hehe

    ---------

    let me know here in this thread what you wanna do, or via pm to me.

    and you can use this thread, for all the planning/brainstorming/preparing stuff, and then make a new thread for the actual contest when you're ready to do so. If you guys/girls wanna do this on your own.

    and I of course can help out with whatever you need as well.

    --------

    P.S.

    we also had the Claymore Tournament for those who knew of it/participated in it, that you can use for ideas or whatever, as well. The threads for it are still here to look at, if you can't find them, let me know and I'll give the links for them.

    Please feel free to use the Claymore Tournament that we had done previously:

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...cussion-Thread

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...-Fights-Thread

    P.S.S.

    let me know which type of contest you wnana do first

    P.S.S.S.

    (and your use of "shooting" the losers, sounds like the Top Shot TV show that I love, lol, where they shoot two of their team members' targets who are to go to the elimination round when their team losses against the other team, hehe)

    ---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

    One final comment by me:

    Due to procrastinating on my school work, this is going to be a bit bad of a month, as I'll be a bit busy, but I'll certainly try to do all that I can to help you guys/girls, as best as I can.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 09, 2011 at 02:53 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    So I bumped this thread, because it is a good idea, and we can even make several tournaments, for different categories, or decide different types of matches for the different rounds...
    Also with this possible "ending" hovering above out heads, we can definitely use some hanging out, until we get something official...

    I would again ask what Hege asked...should the staff take care of the organization? Making the threads, editing posts and such, you name it, or would you like to do it yourselves...we would still help of course...

    But until we decide that, let's talk about the format of the tournament...what's the preference here?

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    I'll need some time to think about it before getting back to you, but restarting the thread does sound like a good idea.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member haegar's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    This post is still unfinished and not thought through to the end, feel free to pick out any useful aspect and discard the rest... be back l8rz for morz maybe edit: also, the points I suggest don't rly fit well into the modus opperandi Goral suggested, but maybe there is some way to get some of them into goral's survivor modus? It's the notion with the three different kills and describing the fights for fun that I personally think has most merrit amongst the points I raise...

    Being lazy I would like it if the "lineup" for the fight/shootout rounds would be predetermined and somebody goes to the trouble of keeping that stuructured somehow. I am too lazy to get myself involved in that and not reliable enough with being online regularly anyways, but I'll be a stinge regardless of that and suggest makeing things yet more complicated for whoever handles this:

    I think it would do fine to go with the general tournament layout known from many shounen tournament arcs like i.e. Yu Yu Hakushu:
    • First make a list of all the characters entering the tournament.
    • Second, devide these characters into a number of preliminary groups of say around a dozen contestants per group (I never counted but I would assume if we list both warriors and ABs and MIBs we ought to get to somewhere between roughly 50 and 70 characters or so?) It would add to the thrill if the groups are determined by random chance btw
    • Third, the remaining two or three of each group enter the "finals" Now, why make groups? Just gets more complicated... yes, BUT: let's say we devide the pool into at least six groups(or maybe 4 would do as well). In each "phase" each group has one fight. users participating can vote on all six group fights whom they want to loose in each - ah, but maybe there are sometimes some characters you want to die MORE than others? For this, I suggest:
    • Forth, 3 Kill-modes:
      1. [Strike down] (the standard kill)
      2. [Impale] A more devious way of bringing down the opponent, reserved for deserving victims only counts double as vote
      3. [DECACIPATE]the most devious and decisive kill, reserved only for truly abhored and hated characters counts as tripple vote
      To make that more dynamic, participants can vote as many [Strike down]s as they like, however they can only vote ONE [Impale] per phase and only ONE [DECACIPATE] during preliminaries as a whole.
      (So that would mean, if we have six groups (as example) six fights go down per phase, so per phase one has to choose, which one do I want impaled? And you could reserve your DECACIPATE vote not only for the most hated character but also place it so that you have him decacipated by the opponent of your choice (i.e. save vote for [Clare] [DECACIPATE] [Raki] for the haters )
    • Fifth Rallying support for your vote (To further spice things up, every user can choose to write a short paragraph,say 3 to 10lines or sentences, or maybe 150 words max or whatever to try to gain support for his or her vote. In order for this to not detoriate into character bashing, people have to formulate a plot for the fight that amounts to the result they hope for. Example: You want Raki decacipated by Clare? Well "script" "draft" "choreograph" that fight with that result. you have 10 lines max. The more funny and entertaining you write your little piece, the higher the chance somebody gets a smile or laugh out of it and grants you a support vote for your efforts. Come to think of it we could add [support vote] as a fourth category. This way, each phase you can use the three above kill categories as described, but have one support vote to give out to whoever built a good case ....

    short excample what a mod/gamemaster post could look like:
    Quote Quote:
    PHASE 1 LINEUP
    Group A - Galatea vs. Rigardo
    Group B - Elena vs. Teresa
    Group C - Helen vs. Deneve
    Group D - Rimuto vs. Raki
    Group E - Isley vs. Miata
    Group F - Priscilla vs. Raphaella

    Vote to [Strike down] the looser for each fight.
    You may choose to [Impale] one especially poor looser for a double weight vote.
    You may choose to [DECACIPATE] one victim during preliminaries for tripple vote
    If you wish to rally support for your choices, draft out an entertaining fight description with your desired result, NO LONGER THAN 10 LINES for each fight you wish to do so.
    You may give ONE [Support Vote] per PHASE to any other user that has convinced you with his or her fight-draft. The support vote is intended to give credit to another user's efforts in writing up a fight draft, it is not merely an extra vote - you may only give [support vote] to a vote that comes with a fight-draft.

    And a reply by user:

    Quote Quote:
    [Group A] [Strike down] [Rigardo]
    [Group B] [Strike down] [Elena]
    [Group C] [Strike down] [Helen]
    [Group D] [Impale] [Rimuto]
    [Group E] [Strike down] [Isley]
    [Group F] [Strike down] [Priscilla]

    ---
    [Group D] [FIGHT-DRAFT] [Raki vs. Rimuto] [Rimuto Impaled]
    Spoiler show

    [Support Vote] to [Group E][FIGHT-DRAFT][i.e. Miata impaled] by [userX]
    Last edited by haegar; May 03, 2012 at 11:27 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    I love the idea and all but I think the staff can organize it to get the best results but after we collect all the ideas possible from everyone and since Goral made the first proposal I think he gets the right to choose a 1 vs. 1 battle and the rest should be like a specialty vs a specialty or a character vs. a character like Roxanne vs. Ophelia both the demons and the most evil characters in the manga so for them to be on 1 vs. 1 is something interesting and the voting would be on who you find more evil other than who you like the most like if it were Elena vs. Teresa since Teresa has more fans she will definitely win. So I think we can group them like this (I believe from those are the top 32 character with most fans):
    I will explain why for some but the rest you can guess them as it will be for a certain character that they have in common.

    1- Riful vs. Isley (the endless fight of who is stronger)
    2- Lucilla vs. Raphilla (a twist I loved to make; a fight between sisters)
    3- Irena vs. Galatea (both were N.3 when they left the organization)
    4- Hysteria vs. Flora (a fight for beauty and style)
    5- Alicia vs. Rosemary (both AOs but we barely know anything about those two)
    6- Roxanne vs. Ophelia (who is the most evil character in the manga)
    7- Noel vs. Sophia (settle the fight)
    8- Helen vs. Deneve
    9- Teresa vs. Priscilla
    10- Dietrich vs. Jean (both repay the debt in full)
    11- Rigardo vs. Agatha
    12- Yuma vs. Cynthia
    13- Tabitha vs. Duff (both fellow without asking questions)
    14- Undine vs. Rachel
    15- Clare vs. Clarice
    16- Miria vs. Renee
    17- Anastasia vs. Audrey (they both have that b*tch side)
    18- Nina vs. Raftela
    19- Miaata vs. Cassandra
    20- Nike vs. Elena (just if there are fans of those)

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member haegar's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    I didn't mean to take over goral's idea. In any case as stated I am a)to lazy b) to unreliable and c) to unexperienced with these kinda games to do anything but give in a few pointers, what becomes of them is up to goral and whoever else gets seriously invovled here For those that care btw the notion of game phase and the voting on what others write I kinda took over from Mafia style games but I only read over some of those on NF, never went to the trouble to stick through with one...

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    Heh, it feels great that all your resilience paid off Gooral -- and your idea is bringing much more excitement here then somewhere else

    What I like about this idea is how much it will pave the way for all sorts of explanation and analysis; it's more then just a popularity poll since you have to explain your votes....and this is good because it will let people revisit why they like something in the first place, why they think the way they do....and quite often, after so long, we sort of forget why ourselves.

    It could pave the way for all sorts of new deep-thinking and pretty exciting discussion about why we think the way we do
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    @haegar
    IMO you're complicating things unnecessarily. The rules should be simple and short so that people wouldn't have to read a wall of text and to avoid any bloopers/mistakes because someone didn't understand them. The way I see it survivor tournament would bring more fun than your standard tournament because of the unpredictability element to it and making users to actually write down their choice instead of click on it (so it will be definitely more thought-out decision) and hopefully will spark some interesting discussions (plus there are clear and short rules). I don't see the point of limiting the user in how much effort he can put into justifying his decision, IMO if someone would like to write a wall of text - let him. Probably no one besides few people (like me) will read it but still, it could have some interesting insight in it and trigger some more interesting replies. The same goes if someone doesn't want to justify his reasoning (which would probably mean he just likes the person he eliminates - less). Rules like these tend to scare away potential participants.

    As for your 3 kill-modes that is the over-complication I've mentioned above. I don't see a point of doing it, at least not now. I would suggest that we would see first if a simpler version would be successful and people would accept the reverse of what you usually do in the tournaments (i.e.vote on your favourite). Furthermore, nothing prevents you from making your decision more colourful (in fact it's one of the great things about this kind of tournament). You don't have to necessarily write only "strike down" or "impale" or "decapitate" (BTW, I would argue that death by being impaled is less pleasant than by decapitation. Oh and it's decapitate not decacipate), you can write for example:
    Spoiler: long list of possible descriptions show
    There are endless possibilities. In fact there could be a (symbolic) reward for someone making the most colorful comment.

    So I propose that the rules would look as follows (alpha version):

    - We shoot only once during every round
    - We shoot to the character that takes part in a current pool
    - It's irrelevant that someone has already hit the person we wanted to shoot, we shoot her without scruples
    - The round wins character with least numbers of hits
    - Justifying your decision is recommended (but not mandatory)

    Contrary to what I've written in my initial post, I think that the sequence of the matches/duels should be completely RANDOM. Otherwise the creator could abuse his power and make the end result more obvious. If we'll have Galatea vs. Teresa match at the start - tough luck but someone has to go. Anyway, randomizing is crucial IMO.

    The real question is, what survivor should it be? Hottest Claymore? Favourite character? Something else?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    The real question is, what survivor should it be? Hottest Claymore? Favourite character? Something else?
    As always the favorite character wins which would be either Teresa or Clare.

    ---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

    Just look at the Awards results:
    1- Teresa and Clare got Gold and Bronze in Most Emotional Scene.
    2- Teresa got Gold in Most Overrated Character.
    3- Teresa and Clare got Gold in Best Couple or Friendship and Clare and Raki Bronze
    4- Teresa's death was the Most Dramatic Death (which IMO should've been Jean's but whatever).
    5- Teresa scored Gold and Silver in Favorite Quote.
    6- Teresa's ability got Silver in Best Sword Technique or Yoki-Yoma Ability.
    7- Teresa's battle got Gold in Best Battle or Fight.
    8- Teresa is the Best Claymore Character and Clare is the second.
    9- Clare's got Gold in Best Past or Background of a Character which included Teresa in it!
    10- One of Clare's images won Bronze in the Best Artistic Piece.
    11- Clare has the third most Favorite Emblem in Claymore.
    12- The Best Volume was Volume N.4 which was about Teresa and Clare.

    So at the end it will be one of them and most likely Teresa will be our Queen.
    Last edited by littleangel; May 15, 2012 at 02:05 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    Things like 'hottest character or favorite character' are too subjective and superficial....if this is going to work, whatever topic we pick, we have to explain why we vote the way we do...and even then...

    This shouldn't be a popularity poll, even if that's how it looks like on the surface...you can't just say "I vote for Teresa because she's the hottest because that's what I think".
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
    Things like 'hottest character or favorite character' are too subjective and superficial....if this is going to work, whatever topic we pick, we have to explain why we vote the way we do...and even then...

    This shouldn't be a popularity poll, even if that's how it looks like on the surface...you can't just say "I vote for Teresa because she's the hottest because that's what I think".
    Ok lets be honest it will end up being a popularity contest although the why thing reduces it but trust me Yagi make lots of holes in the story just to make anything possible which now I won't call them holes I will call them safe areas to use like he wants in the story! Just for example you can make Galatea win them all due to the fact she can use Yoki Manipulation which when first used against an opponent it works (no matter who they are the first time it works because they aren't expecting this! Like what happened to Agatha), so by this she can win against anyone maybe Teresa, Clare and the warriors who haven't released their yoki have some kind of immunity due to the fact they either use it so they know how to block it or they can't be controlled by this technique but at the end she could make it to the last round easily if you keep this in mind plus it is all over if she cuts the head of her opponent which she can accomplish using the seconds her ability gives her! But still if it comes to Miria and Galatea I most likely will vote to Miria although Galatea has the highest chances of winning.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Survivor tournament (preparations)

    So as I understood this:
    - we don't use polls, but we count the hits in the threads...
    - there's only 1 hit, but there can be a lengthy discussion around that said hit
    - winner is the one with least hits...

    That's a very interesting idea, and I'm very eager to try out such a format...so the decision is what kind of tournament shall we make...as it was said that tournaments always end up as popularity contests, but there were always polls involved...in the MH Awards, where nominations were involved, people actually tried variety out, and didn't nominate what they thought it as the best...(lemme know if I'm confusing)...

    We can definitely try out something like Favourite Character, and make this tournament a test run, until we can think of something that would be better...or how about Least Favourite Character? It would make things more interesting...people would argue why they like or dislike a certain character, make their hits, and hits would be glorifying their favourite characters....this way, the least hits would go in the next round...



    If this is all, then the next step is to gather all the characters, and make the brackets...we could make group stages if you want, or just take it to elimination rounds directly...this will need discussion and input from everyone, because we need to make the tournament interesting, therefore not tooo long...that means some characters, whom we can't talk about much will have to crossed out...

    We need to gather the characters first...I will try that, but I'm not really that good about this manga, so any help is appreciated...

    ---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

    PS: oh...and this is something, that is not mandatory, but it's always cool to have...collecting artwork for the tournament, or submitting your own stuff...

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