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Thread: How are Claymores created?

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    How are Claymores created?

    With all these other ABs showing up and Priscilla forming her shape from the blob, it brings back the question of how Claymores are created again.

    Fact: Combining ADOD( Awakened DOD) and DOD flesh = parasite that turn human into Yoma
    Fact: ADOD and DOD literally vanish if dead. -> Conjecture: ADOD and DOD flesh decays fast as well.
    Fact: Yoma do not turn into ABs, but Claymores do.
    Fact: Claymore, Yoma, AB, all their power are originated from ADOD and DOD. -> Conjecture: ADOD and DOD are Youki users.
    Fact: Abyssal Eaters are created from AO Flesh (Isley's)
    Fact: Pris Arm was able to resurrect and allow 3 No.1 to awaken into AO class.

    It is hinted that Claymore were created from Yoma flesh. It's strange that Yoma derive their power from the ADOD/DOD parasite and is able to transform and use youki while Claymore imbued with their flesh became far stronger. Conjecture -> possibly claymore are created from DOD or ADOD flesh, with the single digits using ADOD flesh.

    If yoma flesh was the source for Claymore's creation, it's odd that the Org have a certain degree of control over how strong a warrior they can create. But if DOD and ADOD flesh are used, it at least allows them to separate the average and strong warriors during creation.

    Another possibility is Yoma flesh vs AB flesh. Yoma flesh generate average Claymores while AB flesh generate stronger ones. The stronger the AB flesh source is, the stronger the claymore created. Although it does somewhat conflict with how Abyssal Eaters are created unless they are just a special case scenerio using Isley's flash in a specific way.

    Another interesting and yet unexplored question is how are Rimuto, Rubel, Dae and co able to live so long. It might be related somewhat to their ability to manipulate bio science but they certainly lack combat prowess nor possess youki, which begs to question how they are able to keep the ABs in check on the Mainland.

    If DODs have a life span of 200 years and they can continue to grow stronger, (seems Claymore/AB model is almost exactly the same except Claymores generally do not get to live nearly as long) an fairly long live DOD would make an extraordinarily strong ADOD. How were the org side able to hold off some of these older DOD turned into ADOD?

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    With all these other ABs showing up and Priscilla forming her shape from the blob, it brings back the question of how Claymores are created again.

    Fact: Combining ADOD( Awakened DOD) and DOD flesh = parasite that turn human into Yoma
    Fact: ADOD and DOD literally vanish if dead. -> Conjecture: ADOD and DOD flesh decays fast as well.
    Fact: Yoma do not turn into ABs, but Claymores do.
    Fact: Claymore, Yoma, AB, all their power are originated from ADOD and DOD. -> Conjecture: ADOD and DOD are Youki users.
    Fact: Abyssal Eaters are created from AO Flesh (Isley's)
    Fact: Pris Arm was able to resurrect and allow 3 No.1 to awaken into AO class.


    It is hinted that Claymore were created from Yoma flesh. It's strange that Yoma derive their power from the ADOD/DOD parasite and is able to transform and use youki while Claymore imbued with their flesh became far stronger. Conjecture -> possibly claymore are created from DOD or ADOD flesh, with the single digits using ADOD flesh.

    If yoma flesh was the source for Claymore's creation, it's odd that the Org have a certain degree of control over how strong a warrior they can create. But if DOD and ADOD flesh are used, it at least allows them to separate the average and strong warriors during creation.

    Another possibility is Yoma flesh vs AB flesh. Yoma flesh generate average Claymores while AB flesh generate stronger ones. The stronger the AB flesh source is, the stronger the claymore created. Although it does somewhat conflict with how Abyssal Eaters are created unless they are just a special case scenerio using Isley's flash in a specific way.

    Another interesting and yet unexplored question is how are Rimuto, Rubel, Dae and co able to live so long. It might be related somewhat to their ability to manipulate bio science but they certainly lack combat prowess nor possess youki, which begs to question how they are able to keep the ABs in check on the Mainland.

    If DODs have a life span of 200 years and they can continue to grow stronger, (seems Claymore/AB model is almost exactly the same except Claymores generally do not get to live nearly as long) an fairly long live DOD would make an extraordinarily strong ADOD. How were the org side able to hold off some of these older DOD turned into ADOD?
    Ok first of all the "DOD" are called the "Asarakam"
    Second your lats two facts are not really true at all.
    1) there is no proof in the manga that the Abyssal feeders were CREATED with Iselys flesh....the Org. used Iselys flesh to program the feeders there target. Abyssal feeders are Humans who had the flesh of a dead awakened being put into them instead of yoma flesh( so the could have used isely but theres no proof so its not a fact)
    2) you should just rephrase that " Pris Arm was able to resurrect and allow 3 No.1 to awaken into AO class." you should replace "able" with "used" her arm was used to resurrect 3 number ones.....And Abyssal class??????. "Abyssal one" is just the name of a number one who has awakened....it is not a "power class".


    Edit: I am pretty sure that they used the bodys of 11 Awakened beings that were sent to the Org and killed by Alicia
    Last edited by number12michael; July 05, 2012 at 06:02 AM.
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    @Brother Coa

    Hmmmm.......your theory is indeed possible but tbh it sounds not very probable (but you surely already know).
    The reason why imo it's not very probable is because those ABs refer to the "unknown" monster as someone more powerful than abyssals......and since they refer to a singular entity and we know for a fact that Prissy is indeed stronger than abyssals, i'd say that they probaby are talking about Prissy........BUT there is instead another possibility that has a very good chance to be true: maybe those ABs don't know that there is more than one "monster" inside that blob, so maybe what they feel is just the yoki coming out of that blob "in general" (in the sense that it doesn't belong only to one of 3 monster in particular).

    Thinking about it, the second hypothesis seems even more probable since we already know FOR SURE that there is at least one other monster inside there that is stronger than abyssal level (the destroyer) and the fact that those ABs talk as if there is only a monster seems to indicate that they don't feel the presence of multiple entities inside the blob.

    There is also the possibility that Priscilla absorbed the destroyer's power (or the contrary), but tbh i really doubt that's the case since it would create a monster, well.....even more monster! (LoL)

    @number12michael

    I agree with your first note about the AFs, but your second note is not actually true.
    It's true that technically the abyssals are simple awakened n.1s, but it's a fact that in reality in the manga both warriors and ABs refer to abyssal even as a power class (probably because all the abyssals are more or less at the same level......or at least in a power class of their own compared to normal ABs).

    The fact that the abyssal is seen as a power class is confirmed everytime that in the manga it's used the expression "power of an abyssal" (or similar) in a generic way........so yes, abyssal is actually also used to indicate a "power class".
    Last edited by MalakTawus; July 05, 2012 at 07:07 AM.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
    @Brother Coa

    Hmmmm.......your theory is indeed possible but tbh it sounds not very probable (but you surely already know).
    The reason why imo it's not very probable is because those ABs refer to the "unknown" monster as someone more powerful than abyssals......and since they refer to a singular entity and we know for a fact that Prissy is indeed stronger than abyssals, i'd say that they probaby are talking about Prissy........BUT there is instead another possibility that has a very good chance to be true: maybe those ABs don't know that there is more than one "monster" inside that blob, so maybe what they feel is just the yoki coming out of that blob "in general" (in the sense that it doesn't belong only to one of 3 monster in particular).

    Thinking about it, the second hypothesis seems even more probable since we already know FOR SURE that there is at least one other monster inside there that is stronger than abyssal level (the destroyer) and the fact that those ABs talk as if there is only a monster seems to indicate that they don't feel the presence of multiple entities inside the blob.

    There is also the possibility that Priscilla absorbed the destroyer's power (or the contrary), but tbh i really doubt that's the case since it would create a monster, well.....even more monster! (LoL)

    @number12michael

    I agree with your first note about the AFs, but your second note is not actually true.
    It's true that technically the abyssals are simple awakened n.1s, but it's a fact that in reality in the manga both warriors and ABs refer to abyssal even as a power class (probably because all the abyssals are more or less at the same level......or at least in a power class of their own compared to normal ABs).

    The fact that the abyssal is seen as a power class is confirmed everytime that in the manga it's used the expression "power of an abyssal" (or similar) in a generic way........so yes, abyssal is actually also used to indicate a "power class".
    So when Miria called Roxanne the "Other abyssal one" that proves that Roxanne has strength to carry the tittle, ohh i love Roxanne ^_^

    But i can understand that how it has turned into a "power level".

    And what i noticed we(as in all posters including myself) make large generalizations and say things as absolute fact like when we are comparing who is stronger ......when if we look in the manga..the characters dont even do that..for example....Miria did not say that Cassandra IS the strongest of the revived , she said that Cassandra PROBABLY IS the strongest of the revived.(based on the fact that she killed the other two...but that in itself dose not mean that she is stronger...because as we all know the weak can kill the strong..*Cough* Priscilla killing Teresa *cough*)
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Ok first of all the "DOD" are called the "Asarakam"
    Second your lats two facts are not really true at all.
    1) there is no proof in the manga that the Abyssal feeders were CREATED with Iselys flesh....the Org. used Iselys flesh to program the feeders there target. Abyssal feeders are Humans who had the flesh of a dead awakened being put into them instead of yoma flesh( so the could have used isely but theres no proof so its not a fact)
    2) you should just rephrase that " Pris Arm was able to resurrect and allow 3 No.1 to awaken into AO class." you should replace "able" with "used" her arm was used to resurrect 3 number ones.....And Abyssal class??????. "Abyssal one" is just the name of a number one who has awakened....it is not a "power class".


    Edit: I am pretty sure that they used the bodys of 11 Awakened beings that were sent to the Org and killed by Alicia
    1. You are right. There are no explicit proof that they are from Isley's flesh. Let's just change the fact to 'they used AB flesh' and my conjecture is that they were created from Isley's flesh. I disagree about them being used from the flesh of the 11 AB that was killed by Alicia. The Org has no shortage of normal AB fleshes. If that's all it took to create AEs, they could have created them long ago. It was due to having access to Isley's flesh after the fight between Isley and Luciella that the org manage to create the AEs, which tends to point to the possibility of Isley's flesh being used more heavily.

    2. That's an old argument that should have been clarified from recent chapters. Abyssal one is not simply awakened No.1s. Abyssal ones are awakened No.1 that achieved certain power level. Otherwise, Dae would have not asked what past no.1s could possibly awaken into AO class. Out of all the no.1s, only 8 were given that the MIBs thought could have awaken into AO class. It's clear from that chapter that not all No.1 are equal and only the strongest ones can awaken into an AO.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Hmmm, i don't think that AFs are created from Isley's flash, i'm quite convinced that the best speculation is that they are simply "programmed" with Isley's flash.
    Think about it:

    -AFs detect their target thanx to their sense of smell
    -they are created with the same flash of their target
    => Don't you think that if that was the case the AFs could attack themselves?

    Also, i doubt that the org was able to take A LOT of Isley's flash, so i doubt that they have enough to create tons of AFs (not to mention that they also need to spare some of Isley's flash to "program" them).
    Honestly, it's A LOT more probable that AFs are created with flash from normal ABs, not Isley.
    Last edited by MalakTawus; July 05, 2012 at 11:24 AM.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    1. You are right. There are no explicit proof that they are from Isley's flesh. Let's just change the fact to 'they used AB flesh' and my conjecture is that they were created from Isley's flesh. I disagree about them being used from the flesh of the 11 AB that was killed by Alicia. The Org has no shortage of normal AB fleshes. If that's all it took to create AEs, they could have created them long ago. It was due to having access to Isley's flesh after the fight between Isley and Luciella that the org manage to create the AEs, which tends to point to the possibility of Isley's flesh being used more heavily.

    2. That's an old argument that should have been clarified from recent chapters. Abyssal one is not simply awakened No.1s. Abyssal ones are awakened No.1 that achieved certain power level. Otherwise, Dae would have not asked what past no.1s could possibly awaken into AO class. Out of all the no.1s, only 8 were given that the MIBs thought could have awaken into AO class. It's clear from that chapter that not all No.1 are equal and only the strongest ones can awaken into an AO.
    Malak: I Agree with Miria, Cassandra is Probably the strongest. and she did beat Roxanne fair and square., but i do got a feeling that had it been Cassandra vs Hysteria that Hysterias speed might give her the advantage. hahaha and yeah it is a dangerous topic but i agree prissy took a cheep shot to kill Teresa as Prissy had already lost that fight.

    Sagara: if you go back and read that chapter the MIB say "Regardless if they surpass them(them being the old AO), the number ones who died without awakening are Hysteria the elegant, Three-Armed licht, Heavy bladed Chole, Sistina the Divine Oracle, Roxanne of love and hate who was rather troublesome to control, Teresa of the faint smile, Lutecia the Universal, and aside from those there was Cassandra the dust eater and so on, we can give names to no end but that probably covers the ones who were particularly strong".....and the only ones who use "Abyssal one" as a power level are other Awakened beings and Warriors....to the MiB Abyssal one is just a name for number 1's who awaken......(they say that in the same chapter as naming warriors)


    ADIIT: WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW PAUSE THE F-ING BOAT!... in that same chapter after they name all the strong number ones....on the next page dae says "and what of those who killed them" with a smirk on his face... that to me sounds like he had a hunch on who the arm belonged to. lol
    Last edited by number12michael; July 05, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
    Hmmm, i don't think that AFs are created from Isley's flash, i'm quite convinced that the best speculation is that they are simply "programmed" with Isley's flash.
    Think about it:

    -AFs detect their target thanx to their sense of smell
    -they are created with the same flash of their target
    => Don't you think that if that was the case the AFs could attack themselves?

    Also, i doubt that the org was able to take A LOT of Isley's flash, so i doubt that they have enough to create tons of AFs (not to mention that they also need to spare some of Isley's flash to "program" them).
    Honestly, it's A LOT more probable that AFs are created with flash from normal ABs, not Isley.
    I don't think AFs really detect by smell. It's more likely they detect by youki sensing while they are designed to be youki cloaked. It makes it far easier for them to sense Isley if they share the same youki while all AF are actively cloaking their own Youki. Thus AFs will never attack each other but easily track down Isley. However, it is possible also for them to be trained to recognize Isley's youki. But it seems to me that the AEs are acting on an instinct level and appears to be lacking rational thought for strategy. It'd be difficult to train them in such ways unless it is somehow built in.

    Their ability of knowledge sharing will like be some type of youki sync application among themselves, which requires high level of youki sensing capabilities. Their adaptability also comes from youki sensing. Essentially, they get more and more familiar with how Isley is using his youki and improve their reading of Isley's youki usage. It's an adaptive PYS focused on one specific target youki.

    The Org weren't able to make a ton of AFs, other wise there'd be more when Miria went to the Org. It appears most of what they made was used to hunt down Isley and sent to assist Alicia and Beth, leaving only a small amount to defend the org.

    As for them being made from AB flesh, we still have to answer the questions of why the Org wasn't able to make them earlier and why not make a lot of them, and why not employ them against the DODs? They had access to AB fleshes almost since the male generation awakened. Why wait for a hundred or so years before AFs are created? The only link that was hinted at was it was only possible after the Isley/Luciela fight.
    Last edited by SagaraSouske; July 05, 2012 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    I don't think AFs really detect by smell. It's more likely they detect by youki sensing while they are designed to be youki cloaked. It makes it far easier for them to sense Isley if they share the same youki while all AF are actively cloaking their own Youki.
    The manga itself flat out disproves this. AFs are made to release no yoki/can't release yoki, which also keeps them from being able to sense it. This means that they'd have to track by smell in order to find any claymores/AOs that are hiding their yoki.

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    As for them being made from AB flesh, we still have to answer the questions of why the Org wasn't able to make them earlier and why not make a lot of them, and why not employ them against the DODs? They had access to AB fleshes almost since the male generation awakened. Why wait for a hundred or so years before AFs are created? The only link that was hinted at was it was only possible after the Isley/Luciela fight.
    That's when Alica and Beth had killed a bunch of ABs near the Org, so there'd be an abundance of AB flesh nearby, otherwise they'd probably have a hard time getting all of it there.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyIX View Post
    The manga itself flat out disproves this. AFs are made to release no yoki/can't release yoki, which also keeps them from being able to sense it. This means that they'd have to track by smell in order to find any claymores/AOs that are hiding their yoki.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyIX View Post
    That's when Alica and Beth had killed a bunch of ABs near the Org, so there'd be an abundance of AB flesh nearby, otherwise they'd probably have a hard time getting all of it there.
    I went back to reread chap 88. Looks like it was stated that the AF were created from the 11 ABs that Alicia wiped out and they do sense by smell only, as the explanation given by Renee. I guess I didn't remember the details properly.

    Kinda of somewhat inconsistent with what is shown that the AFs are capable of:

    1. Long Distance Tracking. By smell only it will be hard to stay on Isley's tails for seven years without allowing him to fully heal. If they were able to youki sense, then tracking him from real far would make sense.
    2. Rapid or Instant regeneration of fatal wounds - this require youki usage and massive amounts at it.
    3. AFs attacking Miria and current gen claymores - kinda hard for org to give all their flesh to AFs to target.
    4. How are AFs able to pass knowledge about Isley without some type of youki sync ability?
    5. How do AFs improve their fight against Isley or gain knowledge of how he fights, without most senses? Smell only get you so far. Youki sensing is the only thing that would make sense to allow them to learn and adapt.

    Oh well. It's not the first inconsistency in this manga and AF was probably a poorly made plot device anyways.

    ---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Sagara: if you go back and read that chapter the MIB say "Regardless if they surpass them(them being the old AO), the number ones who died without awakening are Hysteria the elegant, Three-Armed licht, Heavy bladed Chole, Sistina the Divine Oracle, Roxanne of love and hate who was rather troublesome to control, Teresa of the faint smile, Lutecia the Universal, and aside from those there was Cassandra the dust eater and so on, we can give names to no end but that probably covers the ones who were particularly strong".....and the only ones who use "Abyssal one" as a power level are other Awakened beings and Warriors....to the MiB Abyssal one is just a name for number 1's who awaken......(they say that in the same chapter as naming warriors)
    If you also read a little before that, when Dae was addressing the group. He was using Abyssal one as a term defining a level of power.

    "He had a projectile ejected from a being possessing power equaling of an abyssal one."
    "As far as I know, there are no one in all of the land who is more powerful then an abyssal one..."

    Here is the quote which may causing confusion. When Dae asked how an abyssal one is defined, an MIB answered:

    "It's a name that is given to a No.1 when they have awakened."

    The translation of this line can be interpret to be:

    "It's a name that is given to certain No.1s when they have awakened."

    The words by Dae follows this line, shows that AO specifically refer to 3 No.1 that awakened, Isley, Riful and Luciella. It was clear in the conversation that follows that no.1 are not all equal and there are stronger ones and weaker ones. Dae asked specifically who has the capability of surpassing the previously mentioned 3 and 8 names were given. Thus it is implied that No.1 besides those 8 are not capable of awaken into being of power close to that of the first three AO. When you put the two together, and given much of the time characters refer to AO as a power level. The notion that AO is simply an awakened No.1 is false.
    Last edited by SagaraSouske; July 05, 2012 at 12:45 PM.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    3. AFs attacking Miria and current gen claymores - kinda hard for org to give all their flesh to AFs to target.
    Actually they were sent out without a target so they just went on a rampage and attacked anything that moved. They never were given a certain target and just started attacking everyone.

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    Actually they were sent out without a target so they just went on a rampage and attacked anything that moved. They never were given a certain target and just started attacking everyone.
    That makes sense. What does not make sense is how they were able to detect movement in the first place if the only sense they have is smell. How does sense of smell allow them to 'see' their target to not only attack but dodge incoming attacks?

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    That makes sense. What does not make sense is how they were able to detect movement in the first place if the only sense they have is smell. How does sense of smell allow them to 'see' their target to not only attack but dodge incoming attacks?
    Well maybe they can hear them move.


    Or it's Magic

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    What does not make sense is how they were able to detect movement in the first place if the only sense they have is smell. How does sense of smell allow them to 'see' their target to not only attack but dodge incoming attacks?
    Just because they are somewhat blind doesn't mean that they are going to hit every tree in their path. It seems that the smell is not the only sense AF have since they can move around without any complications. But why mentioned that at all when the only thing they need to sense is yoki?
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    1. Long Distance Tracking. By smell only it will be hard to stay on Isley's tails for seven years without allowing him to fully heal. If they were able to youki sense, then tracking him from real far would make sense.
    2. Rapid or Instant regeneration of fatal wounds - this require youki usage and massive amounts at it.
    3. AFs attacking Miria and current gen claymores - kinda hard for org to give all their flesh to AFs to target.
    4. How are AFs able to pass knowledge about Isley without some type of youki sync ability?
    5. How do AFs improve their fight against Isley or gain knowledge of how he fights, without most senses? Smell only get you so far. Youki sensing is the only thing that would make sense to allow them to learn and adapt.

    1. Agree, this point is a real mystery,lol

    2.I don't think it's stated that they have no yoki,just that they don't release it (and don't sense it), but i could be wrong

    3.Ehm,this point is wrong. AFs attack only a specific target if they are "programmed"......but those AFs weren't programmed so they basicaly attack everything.Miria and the rebels were there so they attacked,it's not that the rebels were actually thier "programmed" target.

    4.Maybe they share information by contact,this way if they indeed have some sort of "internal yoki" they could synchronize with contact (obviously it's just my speculation)

    5.incredible sense of smell and incredible sense of hearing could be enough imo (especially the second)................and the fact that this is a manga and not reality helps too,lol.

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