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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Amaterasu can't just be avoided by speed. It requires reflexes to move at the right time as well. Well, if one dodges it like Raikage, reflexes are required first. Whereas if one does it the way Sasuke did, it's just speed that's needed.
I'm pretty sure part of that was Itachi being 85% blind.
When i first seen this i thought that it had a very low chance to happen in the Manga,but after reading this guy research it makes perfect sense. What do you guys think? It could very well be whats in the scroll and could make Sasuke compete with top tier without making him a copy of Madara or Nagato.
The guy explanation.
Now, we know that Naruto is a manga about ninjas, ie: Ninpo. We know about all shinto references used by Kishi, specially when its about Uchihas, to the point where Uchihas have a shinto temple inside of the manga.
And now, we have a scroll that has lead suigetsu to believe that can allow them to rule the world. If we take into account the kind of information that the amatsutatara scrolls are supposed to have, we can kind of understand why suigetsu would think this.
After all, it would make complete sense if Kishi inserted something based on Amatsutatara in Sasuke's storyline.
Now, what kind of information the Amatsutatara is supposed to have?
By this text, we can get:
- the philosophies of the martial arts;
- include all special techniques;
- stuff about heaven and earth;
- the secrets of Shugendo and Mikkyo;
if you still dont know what Shugendo is:
Shugendō (修験道?) is a highly syncretic Buddhic religion or sect and mystical-spiritual tradition which originated in pre-Feudal Japan, in which enlightenment is equated with attaining oneness with the kami (神?). This perception of experiential "awakening" is obtained through the understanding of the relationship between humanity and nature, centered on an ascetic, mountain-dwelling practice. The focus or goal of Shugendō is the development of spiritual experience and power. Having backgrounds in mountain worship, Shugendō incorporated beliefs or philosophies from Old Shinto as well as folk animism, and further developed as Taoism and esoteric Buddhism arrived in Japan. The 7th century ascetic and mystic En no Gyōja is often considered as having first organized Shugendō as a doctrine. Shugendō literally means "the path of training and testing" or "the way to spiritual power through discipline."
Shugendo is the closest thing to Sage Mode.
"The teaching of the Amatsutatara is of the highest level of Martial Arts and Spiritual training. It contains the secret to be a Martial artist."
think of Sasuke's questions. He has made questions regarding the ninja philosophy, and seemed to somehow believe that whatever the scroll gives access to, has the answer for his questions. The same scroll that has made suigetsu believe that they can rule the world, how could this be associated?
"When one can decode the amatsutatara and organize it one can manage universal power with freedom."
It fits perfectly what Suigetsu told Sasuke about believing that he could do it with some time, since he was Orochimaru's "highest disciple".
"It is divided up three types as the following; History, secret miracle religion (spiritual teaching) and Martial Arts. They say that if you use the secrets written in them, the universal Mysterious power will respond to five natural main elements (Chi, Sui, Ka, Fu, Ku)."
See how all this information could relate to what regards Rikudou and his secrets. The scroll would have the access to the ninja and samurai story and their origin, the spiritual teaching that relates to Shinto(and perhaps buddhism depending on what kishi is aiming here), probably giving us a better perspective about why we have shinto shrines in Naruto and why the MS powers have shinto gods names(and explanation about rinnegan). It could be all the answers to the questions that we have been making, and finally the secrets about the martial arts, how the ninjutsu was created? "the universal mysterious power will respond to five natural main elements", doesnt it ring a bell?. And the fact that the Amatsutatara scroll also includes information about Shugendo, makes it come full circle, because it would be about Sage Mode, that if we consider all the hints, totally has something to do with Rikudou.
Stop to think about Kabuto's and Orochimaru's goals. Both of them are after Sasuke.
"what do you want in return?"
"what are you plotting?"
"...nothing at all...i am simply interested in discovering the truth behind ninjutsus.And for that, I need Sasuke-kun, that's all. I want a live, young Uchiha."
"the only thing that i am interested, is that young body of yours...sasuke-kun."
Why after having such scroll in hands, Orochimaru still goes after Sasuke's body? Someway, whatever might be there, requires an Uchiha body.
Taking into account the shinto references used by Kishi, it would make so much sense if that scroll was based in the Amatsutatara scroll. The history behind the ninja and the samurai, the origin of ninjutsu. What are the shinto temples in Naruto and how they relate to ninjas. What is sage mode and how it relates to the origin of modern ninjutsu and the shinto. And finally, the power to rule the world: The amatsutatara scroll, after decoded, can allow one to manage universal power with freedom. "The universal mysterious power will respond to five natural main elements.", doesnt it feel like the answer that Kabuto was after?
edit: also, take into account what was orochimaru's goal from the start, he wanted to learn all jutsus, but now we know that he was not after the sharingan to copy. What would have information on "all jutsus" in the first place?
edit 2: also, if you have time, read about Mikkyo.
i dont have enough knowledge about this and i am tired, but its interesting and might be as important as shugendo here.
Just food for thought.
btw, add in everything that we have already discussed over and over again about tengus(origin of the ninja, practitioners of shugendo), and this image finally makes complete sense
Last edited by Prince Sasuke; August 20, 2012 at 10:23 PM.
But the question is, does suigetsu knows all about that? if your so called amatsutatara do really exist and suigetsu got it from oro's hideout, then why kabuto left that scroll to that hideout? if it holds a power to control the ninja world, then don't you think kabuto already decode that scroll? or orochimaru himself already use that to control the ninja world?
Orochimaru's goal is to know all jutsus in the ninja world. He needs sasuke's body and sharingan for a very simple reason, he needs sasuke's sharingan to evolve into rinnegan. So from the start, he never wants the sharingan but rather than the rinnegan to master all the jutsus in the world.
Honestly, for me, suigetsu just found the scroll of oro's ET ninjas. Because it hard to imagine that suigetsu from the village of the mist, who locked by orochimaru in the aquarium, knows something like that.
Sasuke could've just snap Kabuto out of the genjutsu if the only thing on the scroll is for ET. I'm not saying its going to happen but it is part of the Japanese mythology that makes perfect sense.
The scroll definitely had nothing to do with Edo Tensei. You can't "change the tide of the war" with Edo Tensei that are already sealed away. Especially if there's a war going on where every ninja worth reviving is already revived. Anyone Sasuke brought back with ET that's not Hashirama (who can't be brought back anyway) would be worthless in a fight.
But does suigetsu knows that there's a bunch of ET in the current war? No. He knows nothing. In fact, maybe that's the reason why sasuke doesn't have any interest in the war/scroll. And even if that scroll is indeed the amatsutatara, how come suigetsu knows that power in an instant? whereas he was in the aquaruim for almost 5 or 10 years.
Well, i'm not saying it's not going to happen either. I know it's part of Japanese Mythology but it doesn't make any sense that it's fits perfectly to sasuke. Because sasuke has already bunch of power/jutsus in his arsenal. And soon, he will gain the next stage of susanoo, the perfect susanoo and the rinnegan. Sasuke is destined to be a ninja that had the most powerful eyes in the ninja world. But if he gain a some sort of a sage mode or that amatsutatara, then what would he become?
If orochimaru knows about the history of the descendants of the sage, or the rikudou himself or that amatsutatara, why would he needs sasuke's body or an uchiha's body? whereas there's a senju or the uzumaki who had the most powerful body than the uchiha?
Suigetsu doesn't know?Originally Posted by marshall313
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/592/11 He just told them not moments after they arrived. I never said he knows it's the Amatsutatara scroll. Just that it can be used to change the tide of war, and that it's most likely NOT Edo Tensei.
After looking at the scroll Sasuke says "This is it. The one who knows everything." It's about knowledge, or rather a way he can gain knowledge. It's not about a single ninjutsu, especially one with such a singular use (revive the dead).
Naruto was supposed to be the ninja with the most powerful body in the world. Not only is he that but he has abilities that have absolutely no bearing on a strong body. Seeing the future? Sensing chakra? What do either of these have to do with physicality? If he can have both the strongest body aswell as things that have nothing to do with his power orientations, why can't Sasuke?Quote:
Sasuke's eventual access of the Rinnegan will give him the ability to use EVERY chakra path in existance. If he doesn't show us dozens of new jutsu it'll be because Kishimoto forgot how his own manga works.
Knowing about it doesn't give you the capacity to master if you lack the source required to even start. Orochimaru knew about Ryuuichi Do, and still couldn't become a perfect sage because he lacked the body. Not to mention he can't gain the Rinnegan, or use it to it's full potential, without Sasuke's eyes. This is why he needs Sasuke's body. Not because it's one of the strongest bodies, but because he needs it to use the Sharingan to it's full potential.Quote:
Last edited by ninjabot; August 21, 2012 at 09:19 PM.
That scroll can't be ET, why?
Naruto soloed that shit with his clones.
Seriously though, Kishi will not use a thing that was used for more or less the whole war again, so soon too.
No, it will be some power that will enable Sasuke to stand above all, and I believe it will be the Rin'negan.
Or, maybe a way for Sasuke to obtain all the chakra inside the Gedo Mazo/Juubi, thus becoming basically a Rikudou Sennin-wannabe without the body power, so being able to match a Rikudou Sennin-wannabe without the eyes, Naruto.
While the scroll thing Prince Sasuke reposted would be the coolest thing ever, I doubt Kishi would do something like that
Yeah, in fact, i hope that the amatsutatara do really exist in kishi's manga. But if that power is some sort of a sage mode then it perfectly fits to naruto. I don't want sasuke to have another amazing power whereas naruto was stuck to his rasengan variations.
For one Sasuke has all but lost his individuality after he got his MS. Its literally a weaker(debatable) version of Itachi's. Him and Itachi are almost identical fighters with one focusing on Genjutsu and the other on Ninjutsu. He really needs something new. Even if its a HAWK version there were still 3 sages before him(i guess four if you include oro??). He needs something original imo.
I know you don't particularly care about Naruto but im pretty sure you are aware(actually i think you have pointed it out a few times) that Naruto doesn't have much going for him. He is Rasengan and bigger rasengan varients. Some clones. Barely any wind fuuton. a toad contract he doesn't use. Sage mode(which really needs to be explored more for him). And Kurama. All the stuff he has involves massive chakra. My point being is that he needs everything he can to be unique. If Sasuke got a sage mode Naruto would have one less going for him.
Oh and the last problem with it is that if Sasuke got it he would possibly be too overpowered. I know that Naruto is overpowered now because of his destructive power and his MASSIVE chakra reserves but its fine because he is the pinnacle of Senju power. The one thing stopping Sasuke from being a god is his above average chakra reserves. It keeps him in check. It makes him balanced in that for every super advantage he has there is also a disadvantage too. A sage mode would also take away from Naruto indirectly. Narutos one huge major advantage over everyone is that he can outlast them. If it every comes down to a battle of stamina he will not lose. You take away Naruto's chakra advantage and he becomes less of a threat(almost none existent). If Sasuke had Senjutsu or access to the "universe's energy" he would have unlimited chakra(as long as he can keep finding a way to gather it). It goes too much against the whole older son/younger son thing imo.
Oh and everybody in MH would bash him(save for maybe like 8 other people).
I agree. He shouldn't get a Sage Mode. The Amatsutatara theorem speculates about achieving more than Sage Mode. It mentions spiritual power (aka, the lynchpin in the Uchiha clan's power. What gives them their strength. The gift recieved from Rikudo Sennin) THIS is what he needs. When I speak of him gaining "a type of Sage Mode", I literally meant a TYPE of Sage Mode. Call it Spirit Mode if you want, but it would be a mode that allows him access to a large amount of spiritual resources so that the abilities he starts using make sense. It mentions universal power/mastery of the 5 powers aswell as understanding of everything. The 5 paths would obviously be access to Rinnegan... most likely.
It's all just thoughts on this theory anyway. Just saying, this Amatsutatara stuff gives Sasuke the chance to have something completely new, completely off the wall. I'm not asking for Sage Mode. I'm asking for a MODE... that gives Sasuke SAGE knowledge and 100% original techniques. And yes, his chakra reserve keeps him in check, but he does need more. It doesn't have to equal Naruto's. It just has to be enough so that he can actually use the jutsu that'll put him as Naruto's equal. Remember: Both Nagato and Madara are blessed with godly chakra reserves inorder to make their Rinnegan usage a non-issue during the fight. Plus... I'd be alot happier if he found a way to access the Rinnegan a natural way. Through actual Understanding Of All Things and assending to a sage-like level. Like the Dali Lama or something.
Well i do like what you said about him naturally gaining the Rinnegan as opposed to him being a science project but im still kinda against the Rinnegan period. I don't like the fact that Sasuke has to go out of his "branch" and gain power from the other branch to achieve a power that makes him equal to said other branch(Naruto). I hope that it turns out that you don't need senju/uzumaki dna to achieve it or this scroll somehow finds a loophole. The other reason im against it is that it would make him go from a Itachi copy to a Madara copy. I demand that Sasuke become original once again!!! But unfortunately i don't see Sasuke moving up the to the next level and once again being Naruto's equal without it.
When it says "5 powers" does it mean 5 elements or the paths of pain? And why only 5? if its the former why doesn't include yin, yang, or yin-yang? and if its the latter why doesn't it include the last 2 paths? If Sasuke could somehow learn to use all elements(and actually use them unlike the other Rinnegan users) i would be pretty happy but they would have to be very very very powerful attacks(or supplementary abilities).
I guess the last two reasons im against the scroll are this:
1) Sasuke becoming some kind of transcendental being is just TOOOO out of character for me. I understand Sasuke is going through some sort of emotional journey and that he has been through the most personallity changes throughout the show but no matter how hard i try i can't make Sasuke becoming some sort of monk/"Dali Lama" badass. It just doesn't fit him. And it would make Sasuke's inevitable change back to the good side even more unrealistic.
2) The scroll sounds too over powered(which isn't the problem). Like theoretically he will become some sort of god. The power he gets from this scroll will be greater than the power he received from the sharingan and all related abilities. It would be Scroll>EMS>Sharingan>Base. It would mean Sasuke didn't reach the pinnacle of the Uchiha and had to use some sort of other power to compete with Naruto's ace. From the very beginning it was always shown that the Sharingan and Kurama were Sasuke's and Naruto's great equalizer. No matter how powerful one of them got using their trump card the other would eventually catch up if not surpass them all together. I think Kishi made Naruto too strong too soon. It seems like Sasuke can't keep up now with what he has and that makes me sad lol. Im still hoping Sasuke gets that "new" ability from EMS(which turns out super HAXXX) or because he has always been said to have more potential then Itachi and on the level of Madara he does something nobody has ever seen before(even if it is an asspull i will still love it). Though i don't want it to be something like perfect Susanoo(because i don't want a zoid vs gundam fight) i want something unique to him and it makes him just as difficult of a fight as Tobi if not more so.
Something like Spirit mode would be cool its just that all it would do is strengthen his already weaker than Kurama(IMO) Sharigan abilities. That might make him as strong as Buji Naruto but it took two things to get him there(EMS and Spirit mode). Whats stopping Naruto from just combining Sage mode with Kurama(besides the plot) and once again regaining superiority? Idk man maybe this is just flying over my head or im looking at it wrong. I keep reading it over and over again and im just not seeing it right now.
Last edited by NinjaStar; August 24, 2012 at 03:55 AM.
Hmm...well considering that Naruto has his Jinchurrki power-ups, Sage power-ups and his own super-wind techniques these are the things I think Sasuke should be able to get!
Sasuke should get like the ULTIMATE Sharingan power-up, (somehow, don't ask me how) become a Hawk-sage, and have his own super-lightning techniques.
To be honest, I think he's falling behind everyone else in skill and strength...even Naruto. But that's just my opinion.