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Thread: Miata Discussion Thread

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaphG1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    You do realize we're talking about a potentially adult and fully trained Miata and not the child version, yes? I just want to make sure because no one is saying child Miata is going to beat adult Teresa in any way. That would be like saying child Teresa can beat her adult counterpart, which is of course is not going to happen.

    As to the points, I just got the numbering wrong,my bad there ^^

    P.1 The skill was explained in it's complete form by Yagi via the Org member (don't know all there names) to imply that it does anything less then exactly what he says it does is actually rather silly. it's a passive skill much like the PYSA and i doubt highly that it ever 'turns off'. So then where has it been shown at any time to impede her combat ability? If anything its likely the key to her strength. Provide and example rather then a speculation.

    P.2(3) You can say things like "Every single digit warrior should have been able to do the same" and I'll say, show me proof. Show me an example of anyone else doing the same, at any time in the manga. What has been shown is that except for a very few rare instances single digits like other Claymores rely on their Yoki.

    p.3(4) Correct just Yoma which is why I separated the two points. However, saying "I'm pretty sure even Sophia could do something like this (not to mention Isley/Riful/Luciella as Claymores)" doesn't make it any more true. Every other no.1 Claymore that we have seen in actual combat used their swords, never ANY difference aside from what techniques they used with the swords. The Claymore is an integral part of combat for a warrior. If Yagi is going out of his way to show a warrior doing damage without it, then it's because he's trying to show you something.

    As for the platform not moving look again at the frame, how could she be moving the tiny body atop the platform alone when the tendrils she's pulling are attached to the platform itself? Even the angle of the platform, the sound effects and the snapping tendrils are meant to show resistance from two forces pulling in opposite directions. Agatha then made it a priority to stop Miata from pulling again after expressing surprise at her strength on the very next page. There would be no reason to bother doing that unless Miata had moved her. She would have been no more threat then either Clarice or Galatea.

    P.4(5) Not repeating myself. Fighting awakened beings is in no way nor has it ever been shown to be the same as fighting a group of Yoma. I think Yagi has gone well out of his way to show by now that even a realtively weak AB is FAR beyond a pack of Yoma. To say they are the same would be like comparing the group of Yoma Clare fought in the the beginning of CHP 25 to the weak to mid level AB in CHP 27. Just being able to handle a group of yoma does not compare to taking on a AB at any level. I think we both know this by now so there's no point in considering them the same.

    It was not that Miata didn't notice the attacks striking her, she was simply completely focused on her goal of defeating Galatea. She ignored the attacks from Agatha, its implied heavily in the text. That goes back to the reasons of why she can't be number one, Ala her mental instability. Galatea was hoping that Miata would change her target to Agatha and help defeat her. Sadly no matter what the stimulus, even being attacked and cut up by Agatha, she wasn't going to do anything but go for Galatea.


    Again not saying that ATM Miata is Teresa level (said that like a million times by now) but im saying the trends being shown are indicting her full potential will be around that level. Thanks for debating without being jerkish btw
    Last edited by Miyagi; July 13, 2012 at 03:00 AM.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    Wow, I go to sleep, spend the day going to Walmart to do some errands, and I miss a war that apparently involved Gooral and I......why does that seem so familiar? XD

    Quote Originally Posted by SaphG1
    You know usually i don't get annoyed by discussion because i know people are passionate to defense their opinions but I don't know whether to use the words pompous or pretentious when I read your posts sometimes. where on earth do you get the gall to come off to other people with your rotten core attitude of better then thou? where does THAT come from? Try to tone it a bit friendlier next time champ, we'll get along swimmingly if you do, I'm sure.

    But I digress

    I wasn't comparing Miata to Priscella at all, why are you jumping to that conclusion? I didn't compare them at all to one another in fact. I said she paralleled Teresa heavily which she does. Priscella as a CLAYMORE wasn't even mentally unstable, she was a spoiled brat who saw in black and white. Her instability comes later and has nothing to do with her latent power. As to Teresa vs Miata I DID NOT say that they were exactly the same but the similarities have been shown many times.
    Roflmao....SaphG1, I have no idea what you're talking about.

    I'm acting pretty casual, as I normally am, so I don't know where or why you think I'm being cheeky - I even said "I'm sorry..." in the beginning, since I'm not used to debating you too much or understand your reactions all that well (i certainly do now) so I don't know where you get the impression I'm deliberately trying to make fun of you or something.

    One of those usual moments where it's difficult to gauge how a person is through the internet, I guess - that's nothing new - I'm a recurring victim of that. Another user even said I was being "passive-aggressive" because I sometimes use emocons alongside my post and they got annoyed by that, and, good god, I remember Elandyl from AS who was the master of hyperbole and treated everything I said as if it was a personal attack and he responded as such. Maybe I should change my avatar to avoid people from constantly interpreting me the wrong way.

    (That was a joke, by the way)

    As for your actual post, I really wasn't even sure what you were getting at...why you say you wasn't intending to relate Miata and Priscilla, I don't know...that seemed to be what you were trying to get at, and if nothing else, I did went and tried to express how one could see their were similarities between them and Teresa as well, and how it's wrong to take them too far.

    You mentioned about her raw power and that Miata had the ability to, potentially, surpass Abyssal Ones and reach the same plateau as Teresa and Priscilla, and my argument was that their was nothing to really say that -- thus far, that's what we've been talking about.

    Now, if you're telling me that you never had any attention of comparing Miata to Priscilla....well, that is a bit weird -- again, that seemed to be what you've been getting at till now, and when you mention this supposed raw-power that can get to her and Teresa's level, well...obviously I'm gonna bring her up. Saying that you never had any attention of comparing Miata and Priscilla, I'm sorry....that just feels weird.

    Now, when it comes to Teresa and Miata, leaving out the third girl in this equation....while I can see, again, similarities between Teresa and Miata's ability, it still goes too far again to take that as a sign that Miata has Teresa-potential within her....even the comparison that Clarice and Miata resemble Claire and Teresa is personal opinion -- for the longest time, we've wondered what connections Claire and Clarice have had, and over the years, the answers seem to be nothing at all except a similar-sounding name perhaps....I still have no idea what future Yagi has in store for the two of them, if any yet, but you're taking things to the next level to compare her to someone as potentially strong as Teresa...

    Priscilla had that kind of power - though she didn't exhibit at the time, she had that potential as well, so you should be able to agree that Claymore-Priscilla and Miata are not that different side-by-side....Irene recognized her power for what it was, and Teresa as well....terrifying power that, on their level would make anyone tremble, even an Abyssal and especially an Eye like Renee...wouldn't Galatea have made a much bigger reaction when Miata released her yoki? That she would see what Miata was capable of in time, if not right now?

    After all, later on she would go on to sense Isley and understand his power as an Abyssal just before he died...if Miata were capable of, in the future, squashing him like a bug...wouldn't Galatea have sensed that kind of potential? Even if she didn't have that power right now, she would become frightened and concerned enough that she would see what she would be capable of in the future?

    Perhaps you could argue that Irene knew Teresa's power and that's how she made such a remark...but, when Teresa beaten all the Slayers, naturally that changes because she really didn't know how much Teresa was capable of at all.

    you can argue that it all became moot in the end, but Irene nevertheless was incorrect about her assessment of both their powers (hugely), even if she was correct about the outcome (sort of - Priscilla killed Teresa in such a way that time was irrelevant), and she's not an Eye by the way.

    My point is, if we're arguing raw-power, which you did...even if potentially, Miata didn't have the kind of power that Teresa did, wouldn't we have seen more reactions and evidence from others, including and especially Eyes like Galatea and Tabitha, of what Miata would be truly capable of? Even if she was wrong in her assessment of her power, whether she undershot her estimations like Irene did, or overshot them and went too far....Miata still should be a woman of incredible power who would grow to have more power then essentially anybody else....that we haven't see any such concerns assessments at all about what she may or may not be capable of in the future, even if they end up not being relatively correct? In the case of them hugely undershooting assessing her power, like Irene did with Priscilla and Teresa, then Miata should still grow to be a woman of incredible power and one capable of incredible feats right here and now....it's only in the case of hugely, and I mean hugely, overshooting assessing her power that Miata would be less then what you say she would be.

    The fact that their have been no assessments by Galatea, a superb Eye, that neither scans her out of concern for what she could do in the future, or even just to learn more of what she could be capable of because she put up a good fight, is what makes this so questionable....the only words that have been said that expresses how strong Miata could be in time, was what the MiB said that she was a No.1-potential warrior...that's all.

    Even if we look at something like, say, Miata's incredible physical strength, shouldn't we have seen more of a reaction from Galatea, or perhaps Agatha? Miata used her bare hands against Agatha, which gave her a little surprise, but her reaction as a whole was nothing too jarring...simply that she made her sweat a little, if I recall correctly...nothing that really suggests that, what she did, was so shocking that, in time, she would be among the very highest echelons of power that anybody had ever seen.

    We've seen all sorts of incredible physical strength, Noel I believe was the first, as well as Undine later on....they didn't rip anybody head's off with their bare hands, as you said....still, if we are to use that kind of physical strength, as an indicator that, maybe not now, but later on, they will be more powerful then anyone at all...wouldn't you have expected to see more of an alarming reaction from Agatha? More fear like the kind when she showed when the Ghosts started to rip her to shreds? You could argue her lack of reaction was because she proceeded to cut Miata's arms, but you'd still think she'd show a little more exhaustion, more something, if she really was put of by what Miata just did, which is a sign of what she could be capable of later on.

    And as for Miata's ability....I've explained already how different they are - can they be seen as akin? Sure, I suppose...I can't understand how her sixth-sense alone does anything....what can Teresa, and her "spider-sense" like ability can do, is on a totally different level; enabling her to not, simply hide herself and sense the enemy, but know how exactly they will react and fight, akin to a precognition ability (hence, my comparison to the "spider-sense")....Miata on the other hand, uses the ability to merely detect where the enemy is...it does not help her, from a battle-perspective in better defeating the enemy...if anything, the fact she's suppressing herself contributes more in a battle then her sensing, because the enemy has difficulty tracking her - she has no trouble tracking them, but she cannot predict and sense their yoki to a fine-tuned level that she use that as a precognition-like tool in battle.

    Could she in time? Sure, I guess anything's possible, but they seem to be two totally different things...a passive-type ability used primarily outside of battle, unlike Teresa's which is vice-versa. All and all....while I can understand your parallels, I feel they are just that....parallels - from them, you make the argument of what you feel Miata could be capable of in time, but I don't think their is enough to really say that....you've presented examples of how you feel Teresa and Miata are akin, and with what you've said, I can see how they are similarities...

    On the other hand though, do we have something truly grounded enough that says Miata's potential really extends as far as all that? That she will, as before, climb to the highest peaks of power that have only really be touched by two people at the most? I can't say I see that....you've given me evidence how they parallel eachother, but I do feel their is subjective speculation mixed in....which isn't a bad thing, of course -- I like all the characters to grow into the best that they can be, and I hope Yagi didn't just create Clarice and Miata as fillers (in a literal sense) as he set up the survival of the Ghosts and so on....

    That Miata's destiny however is so profound that she will be among the extreme few to become as powerful as anyone ever did?.....I'm not seeing that -- you've simply shown me evidence how Teresa and Miata are comparable, and indeed, I can see the similarities....it feels far-fetched though as this point to go as far as you are, but that's just my personal opinion. If anything, if Yagi really does go that route, you've set up a pretty good case to explain why their was always evidence from the start....however, especially on the front of raw-power, I don't see enough that really says she's as powerful, or could/will be as powerful, as all that.

    Oh well, I suppose we'll see....your words seem pretty sensible on one hand, but you also seem to take it too far...if Yagi ever bothers to show more of Miata, I wonder how close any of our words will be -- Revan's words on her actually being a Eater-of-sorts also made plenty of sense...time will tell if any of us were even close at all.
    Last edited by Miyagi; July 13, 2012 at 03:01 AM.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  3. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Nixl's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    We had a Miata discussion and I missed it? Damn,

    As much as I like Miata and Clarice, Yagi has made it kind of awkward. I mean, a 9 year old with a 6th sense and the strength/speed to cut Yoma to pieces just with her hands is kind of intense compared to Miria and Deneve, etc. I am not sure how Yagi can make a character like Miata fit with the others when he has made her so damn overpowered.

    I am worried the continued excuse for why this character is not utilized is Clarice.
    Last edited by Miyagi; July 13, 2012 at 03:01 AM.

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 128 Discussion/ 129 Predictions

    In a sense, what I also worry is that they will maybe define eachother...I don't mind if Clarice has grown to love Miata to the point that she know feels she needs her to get through life, but it would be nice for, both of them, to stand on their own two feet...better that they be independent people, then a person who is only special or noticeable because of the other person in their duo - this goes with Noel and Sophia, Helen and Deneve, Audrey and Rachel and all the other duos.

    My biggest worry though about them is that Yagi simply hasn't thought out an actual future for them....that maybe it's like that for all the characters - he makes them up without planning to far ahead and only thinks on what to do with them when he feels they are convenient for the plot at the moment...not too much thinking on the long-term scale.
    Last edited by Miyagi; July 13, 2012 at 03:02 AM.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  5. #20
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
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    Miata Discussion Thread

    You can discuss everything Miata related in this thread.

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