Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/8/14 - 9/14/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 510 (2) , Naruto 692 by aegon-rokudo , Bleach 595 by BadKarma
New Reply
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Flying and Air-Walking

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Flying and Air-Walking

    The thread has such a general title, because I want to discuss a general concept. "Flying"

    Now as we know, Ichigo used Yoruichi's family heirloom that Soi-Fon called(hilariously) the "Sky-Walker" cloak to fly up to Rukia's impending execution and subsequently own the Soukyoku(i spelled it wrong didn't I?)

    But we also knew from early Bleach where Ichigo fights Orihime's brother who had become the hollow Acidwire, that he could float in the air by collecting reishi under his feet. In essence, not flying, but air walking. Shinji literally demonstrated this in his first up-side down appearance, as well when he first fought Ichigo. Then actually running on the air away from Chad and Orihime while carrying Hiyori.

    Now, I said all that because it seems you can only do this air walking in the human world, and not in SS. The question of why Yammy was made to fall by Uryu's bomb back in The Lust arc made a lot question why he didn't just fly and just stupidly fell. It was a good question since back in the living world he was easily floating up in the air sitting on his butt bored while watching Luppi troll Matsumoto, Yumichika, and Ikkaku.

    It seems like I have seen people air walking in Hueco Mundo, but I don't remember. Ulq had wings, and the characters can actually jump to high heights with their reiatsu and agility, but I don't remember actual air-walking. I need to refresh my memory.

    The thing is though, they should be able to do it in SS and Hueco Mundo. I don't see why not? Both places have more reishi than the human world, and reishi is what the shinigami, hollows, and arrancar use to float in the living world. Though one says, because there isn't much of it in the living world this is why they are allowed to float because of the difference in composition and the ratio between spiritrons(reishi) and atoms.

    But if that's true, then why can Uryu still do his Hirenkyaku technique of platform manifestation in Hueco Mundo when he took Orihime up to the dome; a technique which he first used in the garganta going there. Hirenkyaku is basically a more evolved and refined version of the air-walking everyone does in the living world by definition. It gather's the reishi under the feet and uses it for high speed movement on par with shunpo(flash step), and sonido. So if he could do that in HM, then one should be able to air walk there too? So then why can one not do air walk at all in Soul Society which also like HM, has more reishi than the living world? I mean, Yumichika and Ganju almost actually fell into that execution pit.

    The thing is, I know I'm probably getting something very important erroneous and a simple correction will answer all these things at once which will result in a "[/thread]" tag. o_0
    Last edited by Revolation; July 13, 2012 at 01:06 PM.
    Bleach 354-356 spoiler and chapter discussions. Most hilarious ones ever. How hueco mundo and The Lust arc killed "ichihime"
    Spoiler: What happened with Nel and Kenpachi after Ichigo went to Ulqiorra(vol 39 sketches) show

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    19
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    639
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    I've always wondered why they can't air-walk in SS.Maybe it has to do something with the spirit particles themselves(for example,because they're so condensed that they can not be gathered beneath the feet to allow air-walking?anyway this is the only logical and plausible reason I can think of now)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolation
    It seems like I have seen people air walking in Hueco Mundo, but I don't remember.
    I thought of when Ichigo first pulled his masked off against Ulquiorra and blew Ulquiorra out of the dome,that's when both Ulquiorra (unreleased form)and Ichigo flew up towards the dome;another instance I remember is when Grimmjow used the Gran Rey Cero and Ichigo blocked it and was standing in the air.So yeah,they can air-walk in HM.From what I remember,SS was full of spirit particles because in SS when Shinigami die,they turn to spirit particles,so they should be able to air-walk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolation
    Now, I said all that because it seems you can only do this air walking in the human world, and not in SS. The question of why Yammy was made to fall by Uryu's bomb back in The Lust arc made a lot question why he didn't just fly and just stupidly fell.
    Well,Yammy did get hurt and probably didn't have time(or brains) to air-stop.Remember when Yammy released his sword and threw Rukia and Rukia said that she doesn't have enough time to regain her posture;that's probably what happened to Yammy too.

    However,I'm still not understanding why they can't air-walk in SS.Most plausible theory(to me)is what I said at the begging(regarding the composition of spirit particles).Oh,and to support that,I remember when Ishida used his final form against Mayuri and Mayuri was amazed that Ishida was absorbing all the spirit particles around him;I think that the particles are simply too strong/condensed to be used for air-walking.Then again,it may be a law of nature that you can't air-walk in SS.But then again(lol) when fighting against Byakuya in SS,Ichigo was flying and was caught in the air by Byakuya's bankai and Shunpo'ed from that place to Byakuya's back.Things are pretty messsed regarding this matter.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Slovakia
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,475
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    Gathering Reishi under your feet requires you to concentrate on it at least a bit or at least be conscious of wanting to do it. You don't get a briliant idea like that when you suddenly find a pit under your feet (although I doubt Ganju actually can do it). Yammy was pissed as hell and therefore stupid enough not to use it. That's my explanation of these 2 situations.
    It seems there's no reason not to be able to air-walk in HM or SS, so I guess the reasons are just psychological. I'm not sure about why Ichigo used the cloak, maybe to save energy for the Byakuya fight...
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  4. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Imperium of Mankind
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    A little extra piece to the puzzle - http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/493/16
    He's inside the shakonmaku of Soul Society, so he has to be floating in the air. Additionally he's not making any plate or similar to stand on like Ishida used to do in HM.

    This adds to the mystery, how come that some strong shinigami/arrancar are limited to ground based walking in HM / SS, when Quincy can do it just fine in all 3 dimensions. Plot hole?

  5. #5
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Tonix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Posts
    438
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    I don't think there is an actual answer to this question, Kubo just makes people float when he doesn't feel like drawing backgrounds, or when he thinks a fight will look better in the air.

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Imperium of Mankind
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    What strikes me odd, is like what Revolation mentioned, Ichigo already floated in mid-air around the first 5 chapters of Bleach or so, when saving Orihime. It has to be major idiotic writing of Kubo if he hadn't thought the basics of spirits out before he even started writing the story, and this already happened within 5 chapters.
    Kubo doesn't strike me like an idiotic writer changing basics (Excuse me for the term), so that leaves the yet to be explained phenomenons.

    Then as soon as SS, he "has" to use the Sky Walker cloak, in order to reach Rukia before her execution.

    Both these moments happens early in Bleach, and relatively close to each others, that I feel that it can't be a plot hole, otherwise Kubo never thought his whole universe through probably.
    If it truly is a plot hole, then it's quite the major plot hole in the universe, as it keeps making the reader ponder "why the heck is it like that?".

    Either way, maybe the gigantic dome protecting Soul Society makes it impossible to float. Well it's a possibility, and perhaps the Quincy just broke the domes effects with their abilities.
    I don't think it's far fetched to disallowed floating within the court of SS, it's probably there to keep order. Who knows, hope Kubo can cope with an explanation that makes sense, he did say he would reveal a tons of questions in this arc after all. Also the Quincy breaking the seemingly rule of not being able to float in SS, could lead to an explanation when we see many captain level and above fights between Shinigami and Quincies

  7. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    It(everyone's answers) always seems to go back to "the dome keeps them from flying in SS", but there seem to be too many inconsistencies in the real world and HM. I guess this will forever by one of those things that never fully get clarified.
    Bleach 354-356 spoiler and chapter discussions. Most hilarious ones ever. How hueco mundo and The Lust arc killed "ichihime"
    Spoiler: What happened with Nel and Kenpachi after Ichigo went to Ulqiorra(vol 39 sketches) show

  8. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,869
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonix View Post
    I don't think there is an actual answer to this question, Kubo just makes people float when he doesn't feel like drawing backgrounds, or when he thinks a fight will look better in the air.
    I know it's not a "real" answer, but I honestly think this is the case.

    Perhaps it's specifically the Seireitei that people cannot airwalk in.
    One might make the case the Yhwach was so far up in the air as to not be considered inside Seireitei but still within the Shakugan no Shana (or whatever its called)?

    But then again.....Yamamoto "flew" through Seireitei to go annihilate Ywhach.

    Too many inconsistencies. Sigh.

    Hm....according to the Bleach wiki (so...you know, take this with a grain of salt), the walls that surrounded the Seireitei are made of the stone that saps reiatsu.
    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Sekkiseki

    So maybe....airwalking in within the Seireitei is physically incredibly difficult for shinigami? And maybe, in order to do so, you'd have to be really damn powerful?
    In Ywhach's case, I can believe it, considering the VR can slip through the Shakonmaku and Bach is apparently stupidly powerful. Maybe it's because Ywhach isn't a shinigami made of reishi?

    I don't know.

  9. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Nowhere in particular
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    That one Sternritter, Chaz Domino, was standing in the air, when he killed Akon (if he's dead) and the research team working on opening the Garganta Ichigo was trapped in. But given that the Quincy are masters of reiatsu manipulation, it's possible that they can bypass any measure SS might have in place to prevent airwalking in Seireitei.

    It's plausible that SS would have such measures in place. Seireitei is considered a sacred place, and there are rules to follow. Stopping Shinigami or anyone else from airwalking would help keep them in check and make them have to respect the geography. It makes things generally easier to control I suppose. Ichigo's deeds wouldn't have been possible without that flying thing Yoruichi gave him. Stronger individuals, like Captains, can move almost as efficiently with Shunpo, but there's no sense in blocking that anyway.

    Or it could just be that they favour using the ground. Even in HM, where it should be easiest to airwalk, the Captains all fought their battles on the ground. I think airwakling takes more skill than we might think. To use the Yammy example, he fell through all those floors but couldn't just stop himself in midair. I guess it takes more precision and careful footing than we're told.

    Also, just want to say that I don't think 'flying' is the right word for what they do. I think it's more accurate to say that the leap - aerial combat is more a combination of leaps and standing in the air. it's not like Dragonball Z where they propel themselves like jets. That's one of the things the anime kept getting wrong, imo. Making Bleach characters fly and levitate when they should be jumping and standing on air.

  10. #10
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Thumbs Up Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    What strikes me odd, is like what Revolation mentioned, Ichigo already floated in mid-air around the first 5 chapters of Bleach or so, when saving Orihime. It has to be major idiotic writing of Kubo if he hadn't thought the basics of spirits out before he even started writing the story, and this already happened within 5 chapters.
    Kubo doesn't strike me like an idiotic writer changing basics (Excuse me for the term), so that leaves the yet to be explained phenomenons.

    Then as soon as SS, he "has" to use the Sky Walker cloak, in order to reach Rukia before her execution.

    Both these moments happens early in Bleach, and relatively close to each others, that I feel that it can't be a plot hole, otherwise Kubo never thought his whole universe through probably.
    If it truly is a plot hole, then it's quite the major plot hole in the universe, as it keeps making the reader ponder "why the heck is it like that?".

    Either way, maybe the gigantic dome protecting Soul Society makes it impossible to float. Well it's a possibility, and perhaps the Quincy just broke the domes effects with their abilities.
    I don't think it's far fetched to disallowed floating within the court of SS, it's probably there to keep order. Who knows, hope Kubo can cope with an explanation that makes sense, he did say he would reveal a tons of questions in this arc after all. Also the Quincy breaking the seemingly rule of not being able to float in SS, could lead to an explanation when we see many captain level and above fights between Shinigami and Quincies
    I think that there are some things in Bleach that Kubo plans and some he figures out later. An example of this is in Byakuya and Renji's first appearance. Byakuya is not wearing a haori and he is not referred to as 'Captain' but 'General.' Renji also claims to be from the Kuchiki clan.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v06/c052/14.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v07/c056/8.html

    So yeah, Kubo probably didn't give the floating/Flying thing so much thought in the beginning. I think he does refer to the difference between 'floating' and 'flying' in a battle during the fullbringer arc IIRC, but I have to go back and look for that. I'll try to find the link.

    Ah, found it! Here you go!

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v51/c467/6.html
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; May 01, 2013 at 08:01 AM.

  11. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Zeta42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    Ukraine
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    518
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    Ichigo actually flew when he used bankai and fought Byakuya.

  12. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Imperium of Mankind
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Flying and Air-Walking

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I think that there are some things in Bleach that Kubo plans and some he figures out later. An example of this is in Byakuya and Renji's first appearance. Byakuya is not wearing a haori and he is not referred to as 'Captain' but 'General.' Renji also claims to be from the Kuchiki clan.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v06/c052/14.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v07/c056/8.html

    So yeah, Kubo probably didn't give the floating/Flying thing so much thought in the beginning. I think he does refer to the difference between 'floating' and 'flying' in a battle during the fullbringer arc IIRC, but I have to go back and look for that. I'll try to find the link.

    Ah, found it! Here you go!

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v51/c467/6.html
    Within very few chapters Ichigo needed the Noble house trinket to allow him to fly, to reach Rukia in time before her execution, and within very few chapters afterwards, when Ichigo demostrated his bankai to Byakuya, he flew mid air when he was cutting down all of Byakuya's million blades in a front mid air attack, without the trinket.
    I doubt this is a mistake or re-design with so few chapters, there is something not quite explained here.

    Yes sure, there is an issue of how you use the word "flying" though. To me it doesn't really matter, since Shinigami can basically "run in the air", and that's flying.
    What Ikkaku said in the link you linked can be understood this way too;

    Float - You lay ontop of the water, not moving, with air in your stomach to keep floating. You're not swimming, you're floating.
    Swim - You move around in the water by moving your body.

    Stand in air - Basically what Ikkaku told the hard hitting kid, he isn't flying, he's standing, similar to floating in water when you don't swim.
    Flying - You move around in the air by movement, i.e. like swimming, moving your legs to get from point X to point B, or swap with your wings if you got any.

    Basically yes, Ikkaku wasn't flying at that point, but had he started to move around instead of "standing" still, then he would have been flying.




    Captain/General could be a translation error, there are countless people who doesn't know the difference anyway, so the possibility is quite high.

    Also we don't know how Kubo changed his mind on the haori, it could be that Captains's was in Kubo's head not to bring their haori to the real world. Since after all, he wasn't on a Squad mission with his subordinates, he was on a two man mission with Renji. The Haori is a symbolism of leadership, he could have left it at home.
    Kubo might havace changed his mind later about this, and thought that Captains most never take them off unless they really have to.

    Just saying, there are issues, and Kubo seems to have a much greater idae where he wants to go with the manga than some readers think, and I really should be the last person to say that, but I have to admit it.

  13. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
New Reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts