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Thread: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    What does ichigo being half human have to do with the quincy being humans?

    Well, what the manga seems to actually suggest is:
    Bankai is effectively taken
    Shikai is not taken(at least that much was implied)
    The zampakuto spirit is directly affected by this.

    I think you see shikai and bankai as ultimately being kinda the same thing. I don't think that is quite the case considering both of them are clearly defined and what we saw with ichigo suggests that bankai and shikai are very distinct for the zampakuto spirit (zangetsu has a zangetsu shikai form and a tensa zangetsu form). How about this for a theory: The badge actually steals a zampakuto's spirit the ability itself to change into its bankai form. This results in perhaps a sort of crippling effect in the spirit which explains hitsugaya reaction. This leaves the user with a crippled zampakuto spirit and only shikai and the zampakuto in question would only have access to his basic form.

  2. #17
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zatono's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    That wouldn't really explain how they're able to use the bankai though.

  3. #18
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    Medallions steal Bankai, right? But the shinigami can still use their shikai right? How about Komamura uses shikai, making his stolen bankai's arm to disappear? It would make him just a big guy, and Komamura could cut his own bankai, and since it's not longer his, but it's now inside the medallion, it breaks and frees the bankai.

  4. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    I believe that the best way to counter those medallions is to exploit the bankai weakness.

    kokujo tengen myo: the bankai immitates the user, I don't see how that quincy girl shooting arrows will make myo shoot arrows (unless he has a bow). Even if she uses seele schneider, a swordmanship of a quincy can never be compared to a shinigami captain, Kommamura can use his shikai to cut down his own bankai and injures her.

    Jakuhō Raikōben: it's weakness is its limited usage, especially for a first time user. Also, notice how soi fon had to tie herself up to a building to handle its recoil, if the quincy don't knows this, he'll fly miles backward and hurt himself. Another weakness stated by Soi fon is that it is heavy, she can easily outmaneuver and finishes her opponent with her shikai (i doubt blut can protect them)

    Senbenzakura kageyoshi: I'm sad to say that there're a number of tatics that Bya-kun could have used. First, it's the safe safe zone. Even tsukishima who isn't that fast can get into it, block Byakuya's arms and make him injure himself. He could have done that to the quincy. Second, I bet Bakudou 81 danku can block senbonzakura (unless it's in senkei mode). Third, senbonzakura is avoidable with speed if the user isn't using their hands to directly control it, bakudou 61 rikujokoro or any other binding spells can be used to restrict the hand movements and make senbonzakura avoidable.

    Daiguren Hyorinmaru: First, it was told that it has a time limit, so hitsu can try to avoid it and buys time. Second, even hitsu wasn't able to control it completely, a first time user quincy is also not likely to bring out all of its power. Last, its shikai can do the same techniques as its bankai.

  5. #20
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member tret16's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    well like it was said, when using shikai, you only need to know of the spirit in the zanpaktou, you not actually taking him out of the sword... As you learn bankai the spirit comes out of the sword and materializes in the real world. Now it's exposed, something that can be concidered a weakness to the quincies. So when a shinigami uses bankai, the spirit is out in the open and the medalion is probably a spirit obsorber kinda like a quincy's natural ability to absorb spirits particles but only amplified enough to even absorb a zanpaketou spirit. Ichigo's bankai probably can't be taken because of a few reasons. One being what the main poster stated and that Ichigo's bankai doesn't bring the spirit out but actualy stay's in and simply condences itself inward inside ichigo. Another reason could be of his fullbring abilities that seem to have merged with his shinigami form. This might have been the whole reason behind that god awful arc... Simply to give ichigo an edge. As for the way ichigo got his bankai, that device simply pulled zangetsu out so that ichigo could gain bankai, it had nothing to do with the quality or result of the bankai.

  6. #21
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    I believe that the best way to counter those medallions is to exploit the bankai weakness.

    kokujo tengen myo: the bankai immitates the user, I don't see how that quincy girl shooting arrows will make myo shoot arrows (unless he has a bow). Even if she uses seele schneider, a swordmanship of a quincy can never be compared to a shinigami captain, Kommamura can use his shikai to cut down his own bankai and injures her.

    Jakuhō Raikōben: it's weakness is its limited usage, especially for a first time user. Also, notice how soi fon had to tie herself up to a building to handle its recoil, if the quincy don't knows this, he'll fly miles backward and hurt himself. Another weakness stated by Soi fon is that it is heavy, she can easily outmaneuver and finishes her opponent with her shikai (i doubt blut can protect them)

    Senbenzakura kageyoshi: I'm sad to say that there're a number of tatics that Bya-kun could have used. First, it's the safe safe zone. Even tsukishima who isn't that fast can get into it, block Byakuya's arms and make him injure himself. He could have done that to the quincy. Second, I bet Bakudou 81 danku can block senbonzakura (unless it's in senkei mode). Third, senbonzakura is avoidable with speed if the user isn't using their hands to directly control it, bakudou 61 rikujokoro or any other binding spells can be used to restrict the hand movements and make senbonzakura avoidable.

    Daiguren Hyorinmaru: First, it was told that it has a time limit, so hitsu can try to avoid it and buys time. Second, even hitsu wasn't able to control it completely, a first time user quincy is also not likely to bring out all of its power. Last, its shikai can do the same techniques as its bankai.
    Somehow I can't imagine komamura hurting his bankai with only shikai. We are talking about a decisive difference in overall power here, it shouldn't be that easy.

    Blutz has protected quincy from ichigo's bankai and byakuya's sword slash. Kirge is as far as we know not as strong as the people these guys are fighting. I doubt her shikai will actually cut considering that.

    The safe zone can be ignored by the user though. Even if he did get to the safe zone it was already quite clear that blutz was able to stop byakuya's sword in its tracks. There is the consideration of whether this opponent would be stopped by a sealing spell or whether he could avoid it. I don't honestly think it would have worked and even if it did it does not seem like nodt needed his hands to fire his arrows.

    The time limit is still a fairly long time to say the least. At least until now it has never been an issue and he has used it in reasonably long fights against shaolon, luppi, harribel and aizen. More so, his bankai controls the sky itself, how exactly does he buy time against something like that? What would he buy time for for that matter? Even if ichigo comes there is not guarantee he would get there first and if he has to go through every fight in going right now then he will still take his time. More so, hitsugaya had a respectable 2 years to improve his bankai....

    At least as far as the situation with the captains being unable to use bankai... I think they are basically screwed. Not only they are screwed but there is not a damn thing they can do against their respective opponents without bankai. If they use bankai it gets stolen and they have to fight it. If they don't use it then they have to face the quincy volstandig with shikai only which is just about the same as being fucked considering volstanding in a very optimistic scenario for shinigami is merely as powerful as bankai.

  7. #22
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    Mrlazsa hinted this: ichigo's bankai is internal,whereas the others' ones are external,hence the fact that medallion can't absorb his bankai is because his bankai's reishi is inside the body.

  8. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Somehow I can't imagine komamura hurting his bankai with only shikai. We are talking about a decisive difference in overall power here, it shouldn't be that easy.

    Blutz has protected quincy from ichigo's bankai and byakuya's sword slash. Kirge is as far as we know not as strong as the people these guys are fighting. I doubt her shikai will actually cut considering that.

    The safe zone can be ignored by the user though. Even if he did get to the safe zone it was already quite clear that blutz was able to stop byakuya's sword in its tracks. There is the consideration of whether this opponent would be stopped by a sealing spell or whether he could avoid it. I don't honestly think it would have worked and even if it did it does not seem like nodt needed his hands to fire his arrows.

    The time limit is still a fairly long time to say the least. At least until now it has never been an issue and he has used it in reasonably long fights against shaolon, luppi, harribel and aizen. More so, his bankai controls the sky itself, how exactly does he buy time against something like that? What would he buy time for for that matter? Even if ichigo comes there is not guarantee he would get there first and if he has to go through every fight in going right now then he will still take his time. More so, hitsugaya had a respectable 2 years to improve his bankai....
    Like i said, kommamura's bankai is pretty useless for a quincy (unless tenken have a bow and arrows hiding somewhere). If the quincy wants to use it, she'll have to use seele schneider as a blade. A quincy swordmanship is not comparable to that of a shinigami captain, that's Koma's advantage. The quincy is best not using tenken at all. I think quincy volstandig is alrady powerful enough to beat Koma

    Soi fon shunko might be able to breakthrough blut if she has completed to Yoruichi's level. Shunko was strong enough to break Aizen's shell, it has pretty good chance of hitting through blut. Again, I suggest whoever is fighting her not to use her Bankai due to it's heaviness and recoil.

    The sole reason for the safe zone is to protect the user from hurting himself, he the user cancels it at will, but then he can be cut down with his own blades if his hand movements were blocked (like how Tsukishima did that to Byakuya). We saw how Bykuya shikai could hurt him already, maybe he can adjust his blut to be stronger, but there's no harm in trying it right? same for kidos. If he don't try it, how can he know that it won't work?? I mean he was foolish enough to try bankai despite knowing that they can steal(seal) it.

    Hitsugaya is in a tight spot because it has few/no (if he had perfected it) weakness. But it is very hard to control for a first time user, I'll really pissed if they can use it advances techniques like 1000 years prison or those ice flowers. Similar to Senbonzakura, I don't expect As nodt to go senkei or the white emperor sword thingy.

  9. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    I believe there's no time limit for Hyou now (it was hinted somewhere, can't remember where now)...
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  10. #25
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ShadyInversion's Avatar
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    Re: Theory on how Quincy Medallions work+possible countermeasures

    The simplest way to beat the medallion is to break it. (This IS shounen after all). However I think the normal Captains will be trolled and we'll see Urahara give the surviving lieutenants his 48 hour Bankai training. Perhaps the unconventional method used makes the medallion ineffective against an Urahara branded Bankai.

    By having the fodder LTs gain Bankai and fight even if the medallions work there will be too many to hold off IF enough survive the purge.

    Other possible Bankai users that would be immune would be:

    the Vizard's because of hollow reiatsu,

    Mayuri and Urahara because ROFLSCIENCE!

    Isshin and Yamamoto because sheer reiatsu seems to negate everything regardless of hacks (unless they're UraharaHAX and even then Aizen had to be weakened severly)

    Then Aizen himself who never felt a need to use his Bankai and really doesn't need it against anything sub Yama level or major science foe/

    Then there's Royal Guard who'm are rumored to be ridiculously strong according to the novels.

    I haven't even covered the good shikais yet, the possiblility of science battles, and factored in the unique Sternritter abilities like Opie's Jail or As Nodt's Fear. Either way the war is FAR from one sided despite Kubo's hype.

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