Why Tobi shouldn't be Obito

[Shader]

It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't contribute anything to the story at all.
Yes, there is a back story to his identity but I don't see why I should care. What does it mean that Tobi is Obito? He could as well be some nameless Uchiha or any other character. Nothing would change.

Furthermore this whole thing puts Tobi at a "only a weak pawn of Madara" position. He just lost everything that has been interesting about him in 1-2 chapters.
For me Tobi has been the only interesting villain since Pain. Madara just appeared out of nowhere and doesn't give me any reason to hate him. He didn't really do anything and still seems kinda out of place.

Sasuke is the same, but for some reason peoples find him important. How come?

[jaymizzo]

There are a lot of things that are a problem with Tobi being Obito but what can we do? Were already butthurt, might aswel apply some cream to oose the pain.

The idea of Madara being the last boss is honestly lazy, he; though not literally, is a recycled fangasm character. We all love him but it just seems a tad predictable, even if a corrupt Rikudou comes along it still would be a tad bit lazy.

Tobi would have been the perfect character as a final villain, he was not a whiny little girl who got messed up by someone else nor was he a pawn to anyone elses plans. He seemed the real deal. If he was some complete random Uchiha or Uzumaki/Senju who went to the other side it would have made for a more interesting read and could have possibly made the manga go on for longer.

If he was offed by someone else and a new faction came along it would have been much better, but instead he is revealed to be Tobi who is Madaras little bait. I can rant all day as to how much i hate this but bleh nothing will come of it, ive applied my cream, i might aswell not wipe it off.

[juUnior]

Yes, there is a back story to his identity but I don't see why I should care. What does it mean that Tobi is Obito? He could as well be some nameless Uchiha or any other character. Nothing would change.

No, like you said in bold part: it gives Tobi a "back story" already - from KG we know who he is. Now we will learn WHY he surivived, changed so much and his relationship with Madara : >

Furthermore this whole thing puts Tobi at a "only a weak pawn of Madara" position. He just lost everything that has been interesting about him in 1-2 chapters.

At this point in manga - he didn't lost anything. Just look how calm and whatnot he is WHEN Madara appears on battlefield next to him. So far it seems that he can as well be on par with Madara <and if anything, it is shown he has respect for Madara> I would say he is loyal to Madara but the quesiton is.. why?

For me Tobi has been the only interesting villain since Pain. Madara just appeared out of nowhere and doesn't give me any reason to hate him. He didn't really do anything and still seems kinda out of place.

Tobi was nothing of a villain compared to Pain - Pain was a motherf*cker you wouldn't want to mess with. Tobi was pathetic.. only after he changed his outfit to that newest one with white-black mask he looked quite cool and made actions. Madara seems out of place because it was Tobi aka Obito's thingy to resurrect him.. firstly, Nagato 'betrayed' him, and then we have Kabuto who had ET of Madara so no-no to resurrection via Rinne Tensei was possible. THat's why he may be out of place here.

It feels like Kishimoto didn't plan anything beyond "Tobi is Obito" for this character and that makes me really sad since he had so much potential.

But what potential are you talking about?

[tousendrinksbleach]

Another problem is that it proves, yet again, that the sharingan can make any crap ninja good.
Before, the manga showed that even with the sharingan Uchiha could be weak.
However, now, even the weakest looking Uchiha (Obito) has now been shown to be the strongest of all solely due to the power of his MS.

At least Itachi had other skills (even if he, annoyingly, stopped using them in his later fights...)

i think it's the death of the most important person to you that makes a crap ninja good in this manga...
kabuto , obito , naruto , sasuke ...

oh and also hashirama cells

[Notak]

Another problem is that it proves, yet again, that the sharingan can make any crap ninja good.
Before, the manga showed that even with the sharingan Uchiha could be weak.
However, now, even the weakest looking Uchiha (Obito) has now been shown to be the strongest of all solely due to the power of his MS.

At least Itachi had other skills (even if he, annoyingly, stopped using them in his later fights...)

The thing is, his MS is powered by Hashirama's cells

ANd we all know those cells are a shortcut to power..

[tousendrinksbleach]

we can say that the ninja world was lucky that nagato didnt boost himself with hashirama cells... otherwhise he would have one shoted the ninja world long time ago

[Notak]

He had that Uzumaki-chakra which is basically Senju-chakra as far as I know so...he was already kinda Senju

[tousendrinksbleach]

yup but hashirama cells are top tier senju (mokuton , healing ...) that's what i ment , ofc he had senju cells and he somehow had uchiha dna since he has the rinnegan
also young nagato looks like young madara and old madara looks like old nagato so they might even be relatives (maybe father and son , explaining what i gave him the rinnegan really ment) . right now, that looks like the only real explanation to madara gave the rinnegan to nagato since he had his eyes when he saved obito

---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 AM ----------

ofc i might be wrong , this is a wild guess based on 2 panels similarities

[Notak]

Ah, yeah, that's true. Hashirama's cells are like, elite Senju-DNA.

And yes Nagato's resemblance to Madara is pretty interesting. I hope Kishimoto did for that a reason.
Considering how long Madara lived, he could've had offspring like Nagato.
Although I don't wanna imagine an old Madara having sex with some Uzumaki girl. If anything he tampered with DNA or created Nagato through the Rinnegan's ability to create life.
Made some girl pregnant with his Rinnegan. lol

[tousendrinksbleach]

could be his grandson or even his grandson's son ... also "creating" nagato would also make sense , especially that he doesnt have a sharingan ...which probably means he is either his grondson's son or something a bit farther thatn a direct son or else he did some experiments on child nagato (but he still was too old to do anything IMO , he probably was just as old when nagato was 1 year old)

[Gats]

Moderator message by: Gats

The one problem with Tobi being Obito thread has been merged with the current one.

[Revvo]

Postet this in the chapter discussion. This concerns manga as a story-telling-medium, but mainly explains the reason why I like Tobi being Obito alot and why I think this contributes very much to the story :

The people who are complaining now are the reason that makes Manga, Tv-Series and every other fan-opinion-based form of story telling mess up great storys.
They take things out of the story, put theire focus on them, think about them, speculate theire development and finaly create theire own version of the story out of those aspects. From this moment on they demand the story to be told according to theire own version. For an opion-based story this means it loses a huge amount of freedom and has to follow within the rules theire fanbase made-up.
Manga especially suffers alot from this. When you read manga try to remember what kind of art-medium it is. An author can't allways do what he wants once he gets popular, also the story the author originaly planed is mostly much shorter than the one he creates after he has the opportunity to run his manga for a longer time than he expected it to run. (bleache's story for example doesn't seem to me like it has been planed for more than 100 chapters).
The main reason why many people like Obito as Tobi is because this connects the current Manga (which evolved from the one Kishi originaly wanted to draw) to the Manga the author created hundreds of chapters ago (the original, which we all loved).
Obito is a connection to the youth of Kakashi, even Sasuke and with this also to Naruto, this is why Obito being Tobi, eventhough all the difficulties to make it fit and the uncertainty if Kishi can really make it fit, is f***ing awesome!

[zimbardo]

The people who are complaining now are the reason that makes Manga, Tv-Series and every other fan-opinion-based form of story telling mess up great storys.
They take things out of the story, put theire focus on them, think about them, speculate theire development and finaly create theire own version of the story out of those aspects. From this moment on they demand the story to be told according to theire own version. For an opion-based story this means it loses a huge amount of freedom and has to follow within the rules theire fanbase made-up.
Manga especially suffers alot from this. When you read manga try to remember what kind of art-medium it is. An author can't allways do what he wants once he gets popular, also the story the author originaly planed is mostly much shorter than the one he creates after he has the opportunity to run his manga for a longer time than he expected it to run. (bleache's story for example doesn't seem to me like it has been planed for more than 100 chapters).
The main reason why many people like Obito as Tobi is because this connects the current Manga (which evolved from the one Kishi originaly wanted to draw) to the Manga the author created hundreds of chapters ago (the original, which we all loved).
Obito is a connection to the youth of Kakashi, even Sasuke and with this also to Naruto, this is why Obito being Tobi, eventhough all the difficulties to make it fit and the uncertainty if Kishi can really make it fit, is f***ing awesome!

I don't think that is fair to blame the fans for wishing that the story was told differently.
Rather, it is a case of - a good manga encourages fans to want to discuss things outside of the manga (as the world/context is interesting enough for fans to wish to explore it in different and expanded ways).

The problem is that Kishi had 3 significantly better villains than the current ones, but I, personally, feel that he went in the wrong direction with his manga (which I love, even though I feel he has made some grievous errors in design).
- Orochimaru was a brilliant villain, with interesting concepts and ideals. He was not the basic run of the mill 'evil bad guy'.
- Nagato was also an interesting villain, who also had interesting ideals. He had a reason to do what he did (a much better one than the current Madara/Tobi duo appear to have) and I feel that Kishi could have explored him as a villain further.
and finally
- Sasuke. Although he is still around, he no longer appears to be a legitimate villain to me. I can not see how he will, realistically, become the 'big bad guy' at the end of the manga. This will mean that when he and Naruto do finally fight, it will, probably, not be the final deciding battle of the manga.

If I had a choice, I would rather that Sasuke had drugged Orochimaru (realizing he was not powerful enough to kill him) and escaped. Then Orochimaru would have had to seek Sasuke, whilst staying under the radar from Akatsuki (who also seek him). There would be no Jyuubi, no moons eye plan (really hate this idea), and not everything would be related to Senju/Uchiha.
This would enable the mangaka to go in many unexpected directions, without compromising realism (story realism).
It would also enable Naruto to want to work with say Akatsuki (a temporary truce for example) to help them seek Orochimau, so that Naruto can try to find Sasuke.
Or work with Orochimaru to seek Sasuke...
Or many other things.
The story would be more easily branched in interesting directions, and would not be stuck on this, frankly ridiculous, track that it has got stuck on...

It would also enable Obito to keep his dignity and die in peace...

but then again, some people seem to like this current development...
: /

[M3J]

Kishi probably has planned this from the beginning of part 2, unfortunately it just feels like he knew it was too obvious that it was Obito, so he tried to distract us into thinking differently, and during all of his distracting, he made the story sound too strange for it to really be Obito, so other characters like Izuna made a world of sense instead, so when we got the reveal that it WAS Obito, it's just like pfft, what the hell was the point of waiting all these years, especially when Obito made more sense then than now.

Madara being the final villain is about the only really good thing to come out of this.

He's created a lot of events where he decided on Tobi being Madara, though. Feels like he changed his mind during the war, if not before.

In any case, my main problem with this whole Obito = Tobi is that it makes no sense. If it did, then I'd have no problem accepting it, even if grudgingly.

[Revvo]

I don't think that is fair to blame the fans for wishing that the story was told differently.
Rather, it is a case of - a good manga encourages fans to want to discuss things outside of the manga (as the world/context is interesting enough for fans to wish to explore it in different and expanded ways).

The problem is that Kishi had 3 significantly better villains than the current ones, but I, personally, feel that he went in the wrong direction with his manga (which I love, even though I feel he has made some grievous errors in design).
- Orochimaru was a brilliant villain, with interesting concepts and ideals. He was not the basic run of the mill 'evil bad guy'.
- Nagato was also an interesting villain, who also had interesting ideals. He had a reason to do what he did (a much better one than the current Madara/Tobi duo appear to have) and I feel that Kishi could have explored him as a villain further.
and finally
- Sasuke. Although he is still around, he no longer appears to be a legitimate villain to me. I can not see how he will, realistically, become the 'big bad guy' at the end of the manga. This will mean that when he and Naruto do finally fight, it will, probably, not be the final deciding battle of the manga.

If I had a choice, I would rather that Sasuke had drugged Orochimaru (realizing he was not powerful enough to kill him) and escaped. Then Orochimaru would have had to seek Sasuke, whilst staying under the radar from Akatsuki (who also seek him). There would be no Jyuubi, no moons eye plan (really hate this idea), and not everything would be related to Senju/Uchiha.
This would enable the mangaka to go in many unexpected directions, without compromising realism (story realism).
It would also enable Naruto to want to work with say Akatsuki (a temporary truce for example) to help them seek Orochimau, so that Naruto can try to find Sasuke.
Or work with Orochimaru to seek Sasuke...
Or many other things.
The story would be more easily branched in interesting directions, and would not be stuck on this, frankly ridiculous, track that it has got stuck on...

It would also enable Obito to keep his dignity and die in peace...

but then again, some people seem to like this current development...
: /

true, it's normal to expect something and be disappointed if thing head into another direction. This post was directed at some specific people who were really upset with the current and acted like it was theire own story who got f***ed up by somebody else, which I didn't like. As said one has to consider what kind of medium manga is and learn to enjoy what it can offer (it just isn't the perfect medium for a long story, inconsistencys are normal).

I really liked Tobi as a villain, he seemed real to me.
His indifferent attitude towards everything really showed how he despised humanty/society, especially Kisames memory of him portrayed him well.
If Obito will be a good villain remains to be seen (yes he is the same person as tobi, but he isn't the same character, if you know what I mean.)

Orochimaru was like him alot but much more evil. What I didn't like about him were some emotional attachments (like wanting to destroy the leaf) which didn't really fit his character in my opinion.