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Thread: The last stage of the Sharingan/rinnengan

  1. #16
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member blackjack612's Avatar
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    Re: The last stage of the Sharingan/rinnengan

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    there isn't even any evidence of the hyuuga being the one that branched off the sharingan, or vice versa. same goes for senju and uzumaki

    just because the senju and uchiha receive more limelight in the manga, it doesn't mean they are the biggie ones for sure.

    in the absence of any evidence either way, i think it's fairer to treat both lines of descent in both cases as parallel branches
    Perhaps they should be considered parallel branches, but I think the Sharingan has made a real showing as the big bad dojutsu to fear. If you compare the top Byakugan users to the top Sharingan users, there's no contest. The top Hyuga are excellent figthers and Ao is an excellent Sensor, but top tier Uchiha like Madara or Sasuke are monstrously stronger.

    Madara is toying with the five ninja who are supposed to be among the strongest in the world. Sasuke held his own against the Five Kage (keeping in mind he was outnumbered) and ended up killing Danzo, a Kage class shinobi. Tobi's toying with the entire ninja world. And even Kakashi, a non-Uchiha sharingan user, has become world renowned for copying a multitude of jutsu, mastering many elements, and squaring off against top tier ninja like Itachi (twice), Kakuzu, Hidan, Pain, and Zabuza.

    Between the Uchiha's superior show of strength, the sharingan's connection the tailed-beasts, and the Uchiha's access to the Sage's encoded mythology/history tablets, I'd say the Uchiha have a closer connection to the Sage's eldest sons, which implies the Sharingan is closer than the Byakugan to representing the Sage's eyes and powerful chakras.

    Quote Originally Posted by deni2k View Post
    Kakashi: Got Obito's eye. The reason I but kakashi here is that In stage 3 you would loose your eyesight. But as we have seen in kakashi he has not had any such problems. He has used his MS plenty of times but no change with his sight.
    Interesting theory, but I'm not so sure about the above point. At the beginning of Kakashi's second encounter with Itachi, he explained to all involved the strengths and weaknesses of Itachi's genjutsu. Most of Kakashi's analysis comes from his experience from their first fight. But on the next page, he says something interesting:


    It's an ambiguous phrasing. He could be referring to the danger to Itachi's eyes that Kisame let slip, but the subtext of the chapter (Itachi and Kakashi's tense standoff) and the context (Kakashi reveals his MS a little later in the arc) hints at Kakashi knows from first hand experience that using the MS degrades your eyesight. Being the Leaf's number one copy ninja, it's likely that this deterioration is slight because Kakashi can fall back on a host of other jutsu. Unlike Kakashi, Itachi spams MS techniques often and casually in his battle. Regardless, Kakashi is an intelligent shinobi and he would have quickly noticed any deterioration and come up with a reason for it.

    I know this is a round about explanation, but I think the above context is necessary. Examine that taunt once again and notice Itachi's reaction. Is he gearing up for a tense battle against a skilled sharingan user or is that a look of recognition as he pieces together that Kakashi has acquired the Mangekyo?

    I read it as the latter. I remember clearly when this chapter came out that it was obvious Kakashi somehow gained MS. If Itachi was just commenting on and worried about Kakashi's deductions, his reaction should have happened sooner.

    And the specificity of mentioning the Sharingan's deterioration when Kisame only mentioned that the eye was dangerous to Itachi too (a vague statement that could have many meanings and in that situation should be construed by a stranger as lowering one's chakra reserves) points towards Kakashi learning firsthand the dangers of MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by deni2k View Post
    Kakashi he has not had any such problems. He has used his MS plenty of times but no change with his sight.
    It's possible that my reading of this is incorrect and caused by a difference in translation, or that his sharingan counts as an EMS even though he originally had none of his own.

    But I do think that Kakashi is not immune to the dangers of MS. He's used it a few times, but I wouldn't say plenty. What instances do we know of: against Deidara when rescuing Gaara, against Pain to save his life, twice against Sasuke to avoid Susanoo's arrows, and now against Tobi.

    That seems more like a handful than plenty, and I think it's fair to say that Kakashi wouldn't show signs of deterioration that quickly Compare his usage to Itachi and Sasuke. Itachi as an agent of Akatsuki would presumably have used his MS often, possibly against Tobi (since they didn't trust each other), and most certainly in massacring the Uchiha. Sasuke spammed his MS the instant he got it. Amaterasus all over the place including flame shields. Tons of Susanoo against the Kage, Danzo, and Kakashi.

    So I don't think it'd be odd for Kakashi's eyes to get worse at a much slower rate than Itachi and Sasuke.

    Sorry for any spelling or grammatical mistakes. I tried to edit this rather lengthy post as best as I can but it's late and I'm tired.
    Last edited by blackjack612; August 07, 2012 at 04:06 AM.

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  3. #17
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The last stage of the Sharingan/rinnengan

    To me the rinnengan is not property an actual evolution stage of the sharingan. In essence the rinnengan would be something intrinsically different from the sharingan to begin with, something different at a genetic level.

    We know for a fact that the sharingan is the result of having just a half of the rikudo's power. The other half is held by the descendants of the second son of the rikudo. The sharingan has a number of evolutions. The uchiha start with normal eyes, then the sharingan, MS and finally the EMS. Thats about it, there is no reason for us to believe that there is yet another "sharingan" evolution. The rinnengan, the rikudo's power, can only be the result of having the complete rikudo powers. Basically for someone to get the rinnengan they need the powers held by the uchiha and the powers inherited by senju. As far as the manga is concerned the powers held by the uchiha and the senju are mutations of sorts, genetic attributes which they got from their ancestors. Now, if to obtain the rinnengan you need the particular genetic mutation for it then it stands to reason that the sharingan does not evolve into a rinnengan in the same way a sharingan evolves into a MS.

    Just look at nagato here. He did not have a sharingan per say. Ever. He started out as a regular kid with normal eyes and one day in a stressful situation he awakened the rinnengan. There was no sharingan evolution. The manga has given hints that it was tobi who manipulated nagato into having a rinnengan (most likely genetic experimentation at some point) though, hich was most likely accomplished by giving him uchiha powers.

  4. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: The last stage of the Sharingan/rinnengan

    In a certain sense, rinnegan is a final stage of sharingan - for Uchihas only; what's more, that Uchiha would have to awaken sharingan first, then MS and EMS, and finally get Senju genes, which would allow him to awaken rinnegan.
    But that doesn't have to be so - you can get rinnegan by transplantation / playing with genes / etc. Actually, since sharingan originates from rinnegan, it's more precise to say that it's a simplified version of rinnegan which doesn't require immense chakra levels coming from the Senju side (the main reason why non-Senju ppl can't use rinnegan), and getting rinnegan from sharingan is not evolution, but cancelling the regressive evolution - Rikudou to Uchiha and Senju clans.
    Erfworld

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