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Thread: Naruto 596 Discussion

  1. #781
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    well guys,you know that discussing about hand seals is quite hard,especially considering how kishi draws it. everytime he draws different handseals and (admitting it hurts me) only the anime corrects them. so,we can't really discuss them,although the fact haku could make them with just an end is sure,as kakashi commented it. yet,since haku had a kekkei genkai,it's strange that,since yamato said that to use a kekkei genkai you have to put an element in one hand,and another element in the other one.

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  3. #782
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    is it just me or do Uchiha Kagami and Rikudous first son look similar

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-31099-...apter-462.html

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46747-...apter-481.html

  4. #783
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v14/c120/4.html

    He did one hand seal and was able to perform it

    Sasuke is proof enough that hand seals are not necessary to perform chidori, handseals are a tool to simplify the molding process needed to perform the jutsu

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hand_Seals
    The wiki says that, yeah, but the manga doesn't. It just shows one panel of him forming the last seal, like it does with nearly every jutsu in the series. Tobirama's technique was special in this instance because it's a huge Suiton without a source of water. Nowhere in the manga does it say that you can cut down the number of seals needed for a jutsu just by being a badass. You just get more proficient at performing the seals faster.

  5. #784
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    The wiki says that, yeah, but the manga doesn't. It just shows one panel of him forming the last seal, like it does with nearly every jutsu in the series. Tobirama's technique was special in this instance because it's a huge Suiton without a source of water. Nowhere in the manga does it say that you can cut down the number of seals needed for a jutsu just by being a badass. You just get more proficient at performing the seals faster.
    Where else does it show only the last seal of a jutsu, show me a panel where it shows that. you can't disprove what i said if you don't have any substance or proof to back it up


  6. #785
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasengon View Post
    is it just me or do Uchiha Kagami and Rikudous first son look similar

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-31099-...apter-462.html

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46747-...apter-481.html
    the first son was kagami's ancestor after all,it's normal that obito is similar to kagami who is similar to shisui ecc.,especially considering that madara was similar to izuna and itachi to sasuke. amongst the family,similarities are common

  7. #786
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    Where else does it show only the last seal of a jutsu, show me a panel where it shows that. you can't disprove what i said if you don't have any substance or proof to back it up
    You say that, but the burden of proof is on you. You made the claim that jutsu that require seals can be done without seals, and that the number of seals can be cut down. The manga and wiki pages you cited didn't have any proof to substantiate *your* claim.

    In fact the manga page you cited gives more credit to what I said than what you said.

  8. #787
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    Where else does it show only the last seal of a jutsu, show me a panel where it shows that. you can't disprove what i said if you don't have any substance or proof to back it up
    you expect kishi to draw all handseals every single time a technique is used?

    that gets old fast

    and in the absence of manga canon support, the burden of proof is on he who asserts otherwise

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  10. #788
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Chidori no hand seals
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v52/c485/9.html

    All of sasukes chidori variants don't require hand seals so it shows his mastery of the jutsu


  11. #789
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Grin Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasengon View Post
    is it just me or do Uchiha Kagami and Rikudous first son look similar

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-31099-...apter-462.html

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46747-...apter-481.html
    if you want a face that is a reincarnate...look at sasuke compared to izuna.
    i think this a reason why sasuke was spared from the massacre by madara/tobi...not just because itachi asked...
    Look around you carefully. Strain your eyes at the darkness around us... At the darkness around me. You said anywhere but here. This is where, here, at the border. Gathered by the winds. Those who have met their final destiny hanging between jealousy and regret. Those who failed, swept together here. You say it doesnt matter where. If you follow me, this is where you'll go. This is your eden.

  12. #790
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    Chidori no hand seals
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v52/c485/9.html

    All of sasukes chidori variants don't require hand seals so it shows his mastery of the jutsu
    We've went over this; it simply wasn't drawn. Kishi frequently skips drawing handseals for no reason other than the fact that it's a waste of panel space. It's a logistics matter; you can't just make up mechanics to support your own fan theories. I refer you to Occam's razor.

    Kishi has made a big deal out of 1) one-handed seals (Haku), 2) extremely fast hand seals that can't be tracked by the naked eye (Itachi), and 3) jutsu that require no seals (Rasengan), but he has NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said that jutsu that require seals can be trained to not require any. Don't you think that would be a big enough deal for at least ONE CHARACTER to point out??

    Show me the manga or databook page where it says otherwise. The pages you keep citing don't disagree with me, and they don't agree with you. You're supporting your argument with essentially nothing.

  13. #791
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist
    We've went over this; it simply wasn't drawn. Kishi frequently skips drawing handseals for no reason other than the fact that it's a waste of panel space. It's a logistics matter; you can't just make up mechanics to support your own fan theories. I refer you to Occam's razor.

    Kishi has made a big deal out of 1) one-handed seals (Haku), 2) extremely fast hand seals that can't be tracked by the naked eye (Itachi), and 3) jutsu that require no seals (Rasengan), but he has NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said that jutsu that require seals can be trained to not require any. Don't you think that would be a big enough deal for at least ONE CHARACTER to point out??

    Show me the manga or databook page where it says otherwise. The pages you keep citing don't disagree with me, and they don't agree with you. You're supporting your argument with essentially nothing.

    Umm... It's stated that Tobirama was able to use that 46 handseal Suiton that both Kakashi and Zabuza used during the wave country arc, but only with the usage of 1 handseal. That's proof that a ninja, if they're proficient enough with ninjutsu, can form the jutsu without the need of all handseals. Remember, hanseals only help you mold the chakra. If your chakra molding ability is elite, then you'll need less handseals.

    As for manga scan that proves it, I don't think there is one. But there is a databook scan that says so, and thus, it's on the wiki:http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobirama_Senju

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/120/4 Oh, here's the Suiryudan actually. Guess there is canon manga proof, lol.

  14. #792
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    As for manga scan that proves it, I don't think there is one. But there is a databook scan that says so, and thus, it's on the wiki:http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobirama_Senju

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/120/4 Oh, here's the Suiryudan actually. Guess there is canon manga proof, lol.
    Ummmm you gave me the same page the other guy did. The one that only says the jutsu that Tobirama is using is special is because it's a huge suiton with no source of water nearby. So there's no canon manga proof lol. The part of the wiki that states he can do it with one seal? Look again, it references the same page you're giving me, not the damn data book. You're wrong too.

    "and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal." This line in the wiki is bullshit. If I knew how to edit it, I would. There is NO databook scan that says this.
    Last edited by badluckartist; August 09, 2012 at 07:30 PM.

  15. #793
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist
    So there's no canon manga proof lol. The part of the wiki that states he can do it with one seal? Look again, it references the same page you're giving me, not the damn data book. You're wrong too.
    The page referenced the manga scan to show he could do it with one seal, but the databook states that ninja can skip seals with ninjutsu proficiency. I'm pretty positive.

    Quote Quote:
    "and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal." This line in the wiki is bullshit. If I knew how to edit it, I would. There is NO databook scan that says this.
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong with the final sentence, unless you've got the link right now to either Tobirama's databook page, or the handseals databook page. I don't have it. Yet.

    EDIT: Well. I won't be finding it on this site, so we're gonna have to agree to disagree, lol.
    Last edited by ninjabot; August 09, 2012 at 08:05 PM.

  16. #794
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    I actually agree with badluckartist

    there's a big hooha made over fast hand seals and jutsu with no hand seals, if handseals could be skipped kishi would have jumped at the chance to show the protagonist ninjas with wide eyes 'he did not use hand seals!' and gritting their teeth in anxiety

    you keep saying databook scans and manga scans state that, but you've turned up no databook scans yet and your manga scans reasoning does not even make sense.

    Look at a typical high level fight, how many jutsu they use per chapter. now imagine that chapter flooded with FULL SERIES of handseals everytime a jutsu appears

    that's just plain stupid

  17. #795
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions | Jump on Break : no chapter this week

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The page referenced the manga scan to show he could do it with one seal, but the databook states that ninja can skip seals with ninjutsu proficiency. I'm pretty positive.
    I'm also pretty positive that nothing in the manga or databooks have ever stated that.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong with the final sentence, unless you've got the link right now to either Tobirama's databook page, or the handseals databook page. I don't have it. Yet.
    Do I have to make another link to Occam's razor? Kishi didn't draw the seals because it's a complete and utter waste of panel space, especially in a 17-19 page weekly publication. The first showing of Kakashi copying Water Dragon Missile in all its 46-seal glory was one of the ONLY instances in the manga of a jutsu being actively drawn to show ALL the seals. Edo Tensei is the most recent. Do you think every jutsu performed that only has that last seal drawn is because the ninja performing it was just that badass and only needed that one seal? My explanation uses the simple logistics of the actual production of manga. The idea that ninja can do what you and the other guy say break an otherwise well-established mechanic of the series.

    EDIT: Well. I won't be finding it on this site, so we're gonna have to agree to disagree, lol.[/QUOTE]

    AGAIN, there is no burden of proof on me. I'm only making the claim that you're wrong. You're making the claim that the Narutoverse works in a way that has never been stated. I will gladly accept defeat if someone shows me the manga/databook page that substantiates you, the other guy, and the wiki.

    Btw, I usually use the wiki for simplicity's sake when citing things too, but I make sure of the manga/databook sources. Wikis are not fail-proof, especially fan wikis like Narutowiki.

    ---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    I actually agree with badluckartist

    there's a big hooha made over fast hand seals and jutsu with no hand seals, if handseals could be skipped kishi would have jumped at the chance to show the protagonist ninjas with wide eyes 'he did not use hand seals!' and gritting their teeth in anxiety

    you keep saying databook scans and manga scans state that, but you've turned up no databook scans yet and your manga scans reasoning does not even make sense.

    Look at a typical high level fight, how many jutsu they use per chapter. now imagine that chapter flooded with FULL SERIES of handseals everytime a jutsu appears

    that's just plain stupid
    FUCKING EXACTLY!! It would be so lame to have that mechanic, but not dramatically introduce some ultra badass villain (*COUGH*MADARA*COUGH) that was capable of such an impossibly awesome feat. I'm not claiming that it's impossible within the boundaries of the series (which are pretty loose as is), I'm just claiming that it has never been established by Kishi yet. He would capitalize on it by propping up a character like he's done with all the other characters-who-use-handseals-in-an-awesome-way.

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