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well guys,you know that discussing about hand seals is quite hard,especially considering how kishi draws it. everytime he draws different handseals and (admitting it hurts me) only the anime corrects them. so,we can't really discuss them,although the fact haku could make them with just an end is sure,as kakashi commented it. yet,since haku had a kekkei genkai,it's strange that,since yamato said that to use a kekkei genkai you have to put an element in one hand,and another element in the other one.
is it just me or do Uchiha Kagami and Rikudous first son look similar
In fact the manga page you cited gives more credit to what I said than what you said.
Chidori no hand seals
All of sasukes chidori variants don't require hand seals so it shows his mastery of the jutsu
Kishi has made a big deal out of 1) one-handed seals (Haku), 2) extremely fast hand seals that can't be tracked by the naked eye (Itachi), and 3) jutsu that require no seals (Rasengan), but he has NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said that jutsu that require seals can be trained to not require any. Don't you think that would be a big enough deal for at least ONE CHARACTER to point out??
Show me the manga or databook page where it says otherwise. The pages you keep citing don't disagree with me, and they don't agree with you. You're supporting your argument with essentially nothing.
Originally Posted by badluckartist
Umm... It's stated that Tobirama was able to use that 46 handseal Suiton that both Kakashi and Zabuza used during the wave country arc, but only with the usage of 1 handseal. That's proof that a ninja, if they're proficient enough with ninjutsu, can form the jutsu without the need of all handseals. Remember, hanseals only help you mold the chakra. If your chakra molding ability is elite, then you'll need less handseals.
As for manga scan that proves it, I don't think there is one. But there is a databook scan that says so, and thus, it's on the wiki:http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobirama_Senju
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/120/4 Oh, here's the Suiryudan actually. Guess there is canon manga proof, lol.
"and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal." This line in the wiki is bullshit. If I knew how to edit it, I would. There is NO databook scan that says this.
Last edited by badluckartist; August 09, 2012 at 07:30 PM.
The page referenced the manga scan to show he could do it with one seal, but the databook states that ninja can skip seals with ninjutsu proficiency. I'm pretty positive.Originally Posted by badluckartist
I'm pretty sure you're wrong with the final sentence, unless you've got the link right now to either Tobirama's databook page, or the handseals databook page. I don't have it. Yet.Quote:
EDIT: Well. I won't be finding it on this site, so we're gonna have to agree to disagree, lol.
Last edited by ninjabot; August 09, 2012 at 08:05 PM.
I actually agree with badluckartist
there's a big hooha made over fast hand seals and jutsu with no hand seals, if handseals could be skipped kishi would have jumped at the chance to show the protagonist ninjas with wide eyes 'he did not use hand seals!' and gritting their teeth in anxiety
you keep saying databook scans and manga scans state that, but you've turned up no databook scans yet and your manga scans reasoning does not even make sense.
Look at a typical high level fight, how many jutsu they use per chapter. now imagine that chapter flooded with FULL SERIES of handseals everytime a jutsu appears
that's just plain stupid
Do I have to make another link to Occam's razor? Kishi didn't draw the seals because it's a complete and utter waste of panel space, especially in a 17-19 page weekly publication. The first showing of Kakashi copying Water Dragon Missile in all its 46-seal glory was one of the ONLY instances in the manga of a jutsu being actively drawn to show ALL the seals. Edo Tensei is the most recent. Do you think every jutsu performed that only has that last seal drawn is because the ninja performing it was just that badass and only needed that one seal? My explanation uses the simple logistics of the actual production of manga. The idea that ninja can do what you and the other guy say break an otherwise well-established mechanic of the series.Quote:
EDIT: Well. I won't be finding it on this site, so we're gonna have to agree to disagree, lol.[/QUOTE]
AGAIN, there is no burden of proof on me. I'm only making the claim that you're wrong. You're making the claim that the Narutoverse works in a way that has never been stated. I will gladly accept defeat if someone shows me the manga/databook page that substantiates you, the other guy, and the wiki.
Btw, I usually use the wiki for simplicity's sake when citing things too, but I make sure of the manga/databook sources. Wikis are not fail-proof, especially fan wikis like Narutowiki.
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