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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Thing is Toshiro has time to grow, and lets be honest he is always training to better protect his comrades, as with renji.... the thing is Gin and Byakuya seemed to have just stopped as they were comfortable with the level they had
This discussion isn't about whether Gin would defeat Hitsugaya. This thread addresses their natural talent. If you reference Gin's abilities during the battle against Aizen, it would have to be compared to Hitsugaya at least 65 years from now. Hitsugaya would have more than doubled his time as a Shinigami by then. Your comparing Gin and Hitsugaya at two different stages of development. Of course with more than twice as much experience and time Gin is going to exceed Hitsugaya.
You're seriously putting graduating the academy and defeating a third seat ahead of Bankai, oneshotting Momo, defeating Shawlong, Luppi, surviving the T hird Espada.Quote:
Look at Aizen, the dude had the power to basically beat half of SS but he remained a seated officer/vice captain etc for a very long time. Being captain or attaining/showing your bankai does not mean much.
1 shotting Momo? Lol? Defeating someone who was not even an Espada? And beating someone who Grimmjow shat on? He survived Halibell because he had 2 Vaizards helping him out. After Hallibel released, Hitsugaya could not really dent her. He froze her and thats about it.
Gin on the other hand killed Aizen. Thats a bigger accomplishment than what Hitsugaya has done.. Unless he kills Bucky
---------- Post added at 06:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 AM ----------
That is not neccessarily the case. Just because Hitsugaya will have that much time does not mean he will be THAT accomplished. Like i said before, we do not know what Gin did all those years in terms of training, what we do know is that he spent all that time under and studying Aizen. Toushiro has nothing of the sorts to worry about.
Even Hitsugaya continued to train in the past 17 months to become stronger, because he had someone to protect. Same argument is valid for Gin and Byakuya, as well. If you closely look at each captain-leave the seniors out, we know so little about them overall-, you can see a strong reasoning behind their Captaincy. Perhaps only Kenpachi is an exception with his unrealistically laid-back attitude, but knowing that he know has more control in his Shikai compared to pre-time skip, even Kenpachi must have been training.
To get a better understanding of Byakuya, however, we probably need to get some information about clan matters. I mean we should have an idea on why Ginrei Kuchiki, Byakuya's grandfather and previous head of Kuchiki clan, stepped down. And is there a limitation to who can be next head? The clan is probably big enough to have some more distant Kuchiki relatives in the mix as well. Was Byakuya trained to become a captain just because he was the Head's grandson? Or did they see some sort of potential in him and decided his fate back then? I don't think we could find a solid answer to any of these questions. At least, my mind doesn't remember seeing anything that could be considered a related piece of information.
Yeah, i agree. That does not equal doing more then Toushiro at a young age.Quote:
It's worlds better then defeating a third seat. Again a say at a young age. What did Gin do at a young age that blew you away that makes it clear he was always midtier captain level even when he was Toushiros age. I don't get it.Quote:
He wasn't young anymore. Not Toushiro young by a looooong shot.Quote:
Last edited by RandomShikafan; July 31, 2012 at 09:18 AM.
Hitsugaya even at this age, struggled against someone who was not even an Espada and got horribly toyed with by Gin. Im not sure what other way to say it, it would actually help if we knew what age they both are. And more about Gin. Its obvious we are going to see more about Hitsugaya and his new found accomplishment, but i do not believe that even if you gave Hitsugaya 100 years could he be able to kill someone like Aizen or even put up such a great facade. Gin IMO has shown that he truly deserves the praise of being a prodigy and a genius. He atleast acted like one.
I was speaking in terms of the future. My crystal ball has spoken! I doubt Toushiro would have done anything worthy of note even if he was Gins age.Quote:
its not 'he beat a third seat at a young age' he beat a third seat right out of the academy if you wanna talk about things we know about Toshiro and things we dont know about Gin, what could Toshiro do right out of the academy....we dont know so does it mean he couldnt beat a third seat out of the academy, not necessarily but does that also mean that Gin couldnt have defeated all those ppl you named? even before he was captain....it is very likely that he could
so comparing defeating momo, those arrancars etc.... at an age where he was clearly older than Gin was when he defeated a 3rd seat out of the academy doesnt really make for much of a comparison
if u guys are gonna keep comparing a roughly 14 year old Captain Toshiro to a 9 year old (and yes i say Gin was roughly 9 because he's got the (bloody) baby face of Yachiru when shown in the TBTP) out of the academy Gin then yeah i guess its only fgair ppl bring up the fact he beat Aizen or that Toshiro was losing to one espada while Gin was holding his own against Ichigo in Bankai+mask
its incredibly pointless to compare them at different age groups, if we can't compare them at the same age because there's missing data its a pointless argument imo
Last edited by SaitoSpike; July 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM.
Soi fon: I don't know why people tend to ignore her. She looks quite young to me, possibly around Byakuya and Gin's age. She's also head of the feng clan (lower noble house)
110 years ago, Gins was the 3rd seat of squad 5. While Byakuya was still a sissy boy who often got teased by Yoruichi. Soi fon was Yoruichi body guard, which made her of similar status to a seated officer (might be wrong). So at the point where the vizard incident occur, Byakuya was not comparable to the other 2. I assume that they all became captains at the same time: Gin replaces Rose, Byakuya replaces Ginrei, and Soi fon replaces Yoruichi.
After 110 years, Byakuya still got outmaneuvered by Yoruichi even when she was carrying Inchigo and unreleased Zangetsu (quite heavy I assume) while Soi fon has already surpassed her in terms of speed (talk about talent). Also, she was able to develop shunko on her own, pretty impressive huh?
Does ppl underate her because of the opponent she fought? She did pretty well against Yoruichi/Vega/Baragan. She's also one of those captains who don't need to rely on Bankai and still pose a great threat.
So, I tend to treat her the way I did Byakuya. Just leave her out of conversation, this is the best solution.
But I do admire her abilities. She's pretty strong, more than many give credit for, sure.
thats my whole point.....4-5 years is ALOT when we're talkin prodigies is it not?
---------- Post added at 11:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------
i suppose if you think these 2 are the same age
i would be more inclined to believe that the last two are more similar in age than the first 2...but like i said to each his own opinion....its not really Gin's fault that he wasnt a midget......if we went by Toshiro's heigh then he might as well be 7 for a few hundred years....
Last edited by SaitoSpike; July 31, 2012 at 10:05 PM.
We shouldn't assumes their ages based on their looks but rather from their growth rate. For example, Hiyori looks about the same age as Hitsugaya but we all know that she has reached adulthood for a long time because her look stopped changing even after 100 years. Whereas Byakuya and Gin changed in the same way that a normal person grows from 10-20 years old. Which is Why people might assume that they are at similar age. Similar to Hitsugaya who looks changed from that of a toddler into an elementary school student (.
Some character who I believe is similar in age due to their growth in 110 years:
Those are the ones that changed in the same way that a normal person grows from 10-20 years old. Byakuya was more like a teenager at that time, so is Soi fon. I have no idea about Hitsugaya, but he looks like 4-5 years old when Matsumoto met him.