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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
There's lots to understand. YOU BEAT THAT WHITE DUDE WHEN HE TRIES TO TAKE OVER AND IT IS DONE. How can I not acknowledge that? Just like that.
Last edited by shahdan; October 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM.
What's not in favor of Ichi is his severe, SEVERE lack of information. He found out about everything there is to shinigami, and hollows, during (or in between) combat, I'll give one of the most important facts about hollows - that they're human souls - or that zanpakutos are more than just swords, as examples. He's not your typical shinigami, who lived learning about this kind of stuff, and when we see them in combat, they already have the info.
Ichigo, on the other hand, doesn't know anything about the enemy, other than they're trying to hurt people close to him and he has to act really fast to stop them.
Others (like Urahara) know much more, and they have Ichi on the front lines, so they can take their time thinking), that's why they seem so clever.
Another factor for thinking in fights is age. Our protagonist is a few hundred years younger than others, and he acts his age. Still, it's amazing how much he was able to achieve, being only a kid.
---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
And your comparison with Ichigo's development rate doesn't make any sense. Ichigo is a melee fighter, not a tactician. His way of getting a hold of what he is taught is great, but when it comes to perception skills, he hasn't shown anything special to consider a genius. Again, you are talking about mopping the floor with Squad 0 or so, but this isn't just about power level. I bet, unlike many would like to assume, Urahara isn't as strong as you may be tempted to think, or say, he isn't in the league of the best, but still, in terms of intellect, he is way above many of the characters, if not all of them, which makes him a genius.
I couldn't be any more disinterested in Aizen than I'm, but give him the due respect. He made an at-least-century-lasting plan and went through all. For years, everyone thought of him as a regular VC level guy when he clearly wasn't. That requires detailed planning. You cannot deny it.
You can ignore that fact, though, and degrade the character on its own, I'm perfectly fine with that. I dislike Aizen as an arrogant figure and I will not be in his defense for a minute more.
Last edited by Hakuteiken; October 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM.
I think you're putting too much emphasis on Kyoka Suigetsu's part in Aizen's schemes. He didn't actually use it that much. He put on an act that convinced hundreds of Shinigami that he was an affable, kind hearted guy without Kyoka Suigetsu. He knew just what to say to people to provoke the response he wanted, whether that was throwing them into a fit of rage or filling them with doubt or whatever. He had a gift for foresight that made him an effective strategist, tactician and manipulator. Almost every time he used Kyoka Suigetsu, it was part of a larger scheme. Just having the power is one thing, but having the skill to master it and use it effectively is another.
Also, we have no idea how old Gin was at that point. Well over 5, though. Remember that Shinigami age a lot more slowly than humans. Rukia for instance looks younger than Ichigo, but is several times his age. Gin could have been closer to 30 at that point for all we know. And going back to Aizen, how do we know he wasn't as powerful as Gin was when he was 5 or 30 or whatever? We don't know how he reached the level of power he had. He may have been born with it, or he may have trained it up by himself. Given that he was a lot stronger than he let on when he was with the Gotei 13, he must have achieved his level of skill by himself. Whether he was born gifted or self taught, it would make him a genius in terms of skill, wouldn't it?
But Ichigo is something of a genius, not so much because of the massive potential he was born with, but because of the exceptional speed with which he's grasped it so far. Early on in the manga, it was mentioned several times how incredibly fast he was learning sword fighting technique. Yes, he had help from much more knowledgeable and experienced people, but it takes talent for a student to grasp the lessons of a teacher with such speed and precision. That said, I don't think he'll ever be able to wrap his head around Kido.
When talking about Ichigo and Gin I was talking about strength, not intellect. When it comes to intellect I showed 2 examples who I consider genius in intelligence.
NoOne: Really? You can't pull it off? You can't make most of people do what you want? It's not really hard. You just have to know how they behave, how they tend to react in various situations and that's all. For me it's nothing hard and impressive. With KS he faked his death, most likely became captain. We don't know if Aizen had Bankai at all.
This is a shonen manga. Ichigo will always win, no matter what the odds. So your analysis is incorrect to begin with given the genre that is biased from the get go. Either come up with proper sentences or don't bother. Your posts are beginning to give me a headache now.
---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------
Ichigo has always won through raw strength. And given Bleach's status as a shonen, the entire Manga will be lopsided towards Ichigo. There is nothing new in this regard.
Aizen is a genius
Gin is a genius
Ichigo is a genius
Moving on lol
Ichigo is genius in terms of development and strength, Aizen is intelligent, but he didn't impress me at all, and I don't consider him genius. Simple as that. I think we have both 2 different understanding of term "genius". Someone with outstanding intelligence is not genius for me. For me, genius is somebody who is born with some gift and uses it to the fullest, showing us what human can really do. Oh, he is Shonen hero and my arguments are worthless? Going by your, stupid and childish, logic, Aizen is typical Shonen villain, intelligent (or brute, cruel) with bothersome abilities , and somehow only Shonen hero can beat him. Now I can say YOUR analysis is wrong to begin with, and you shouldn't consider Aizen genius because, well, he must be intelligent to fit the story. Aizen is sociopath that can't understand his true desires and I think under shell of his intelligence and arrogance there's lonely, probably unstable Aizen-chan so I would rather call him an idiot than genius.
Last edited by 0Xellos; October 16, 2012 at 03:09 PM.
---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------
- It doesn't matter what your version of genius is. You can't go against English language. Henceforth, your version of genius is only a misuse of the word.
- Your interpretation of characters based on incorrect usage of words speaks volumes. If you don't have a decent command over the language, it'll be much better if you didn't discuss topics that require you to use extensive, stretchy sentences, and complex analysis. It will obviously be beyond your ability. This is not disrespect, just blunt take on your poor logic, and calling others 'a wall of bricks' yet refusing to face up to the facts that you are unable to grasp things due to language barrier.
- I never asked for your opinions, nor do I care about them. I apologize for thinking you had some sort of reason in your head and maturity to discuss things in a civil manner. I hate bothersome people, case in point.
And that's that. You will not be entertained anymore, nor will I indulge your silly insult attempts - which are pretty lame by the way. Good day to you, sir.
I do agree that this is a sign of a genius.
However, Ichigo has the disadvantage of not having that much time. Usually, he comes to the rescue 5 minutes before noon. So it's not reasonable to say Ichi's not genius-level because he doesn't wait, if he can't wait.
Yet when talking about Ichigo and Gin, recall their fight in FKKT. Gin tried to trick Ichigo into not focusing on the most important asset of his bankai - the speed - by telling him other parameters (which could've been wrong), and Ichi saw through that. That is the thinking in battle and not just using brute strength, that you're talking about.
And Gin acknowledged how fast Ichigo was able to pick up on dealing with KnY, calling him a "creepy kid".
Last edited by 0Xellos; October 17, 2012 at 08:28 AM.