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View Poll Results: Who is more talented?

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • Tōshirō Hitsugaya

    14 26.42%
  • Gin Ichimaru

    30 56.60%
  • Byakuya Kuchiki

    9 16.98%
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Thread: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

  1. #226
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    Kaien was above Byakuya and Soi fon at that point. He might be at Renji or Ikkaku's level at the time. Rukia is a vice captain, but she wasn't able to keep up with Arr's copy of Kaien (which I doubt is as strong as the original). If he were alive, he might become stronger than the young captains.
    I think it's a big stretch to say in one breath that Kaien was 'above Byakuya and Soi Fon' and in the next that he was at Renji and Ikkaku's level. Byakuya and Soi Fon are both CAPTAINS and more powerful and skilled than Renji or Ikkaku. If the reverse was true, then those two would not be captains. Also Renji would not have LOST to Byakuya and Byakuya would not still be the person who Renji looks up to, and who is still Renji's mentor. Sorry, you're pushing things a bit far with that. Kaien was a VC, and he was never shown to have a bankai. He may have been talented and suited to train to become a captain, but it was never realized, partly because he didn't want the position. It doesn't mean he didn't have the potential, but that he didn't pursue it.

  2. #227
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Arr ate 33.650 hollows IIRC. His power wasn't Kaien's strength. I think he was stronger than Kaien. And yes, Kaien was above Byakuya and SoiFon because he was like 5 times older... -.-
    Not that he's stronger because he's 5 times older. He already has a reiatsu comparable to a vice captain even before he became a shinigami, which is high even when comparing to noble standard. I believe that after he became a shinigami, his level is at least a high tier vice captain (renji). Speaking of which, even though renji is the only vice captain with a bankai, he is never called a genius.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-537-14...hapter-83.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I think it's a big stretch to say in one breath that Kaien was 'above Byakuya and Soi Fon' and in the next that he was at Renji and Ikkaku's level. Byakuya and Soi Fon are both CAPTAINS and more powerful and skilled than Renji or Ikkaku. If the reverse was true, then those two would not be captains. Also Renji would not have LOST to Byakuya and Byakuya would not still be the person who Renji looks up to, and who is still Renji's mentor. Sorry, you're pushing things a bit far with that. Kaien was a VC, and he was never shown to have a bankai. He may have been talented and suited to train to become a captain, but it was never realized, partly because he didn't want the position. It doesn't mean he didn't have the potential, but that he didn't pursue it.
    I said above Byakuya dn Soi fon at that time (when he was alive 100 years ago). He was a vice captain while Soi fon is only a seated officer in the second division and Byakuya had yet to join the gotei 13. His level 100 years ago is comparable to the current renji (or arrancar arc renji)
    Last edited by River_Capulet; December 17, 2012 at 12:52 PM.

  3. #228
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    Not that he's stronger because he's 5 times older. He already has a reiatsu comparable to a vice captain even before he became a shinigami, which is high even when comparing to noble standard. I believe that after he became a shinigami, his level is at least a high tier vice captain (renji). Speaking of which, even though renji is the only vice captain with a bankai, he is never called a genius.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-537-14...hapter-83.html

    I said above Byakuya dn Soi fon at that time (when he was alive 100 years ago). He was a vice captain while Soi fon is only a seated officer in the second division and Byakuya had yet to join the gotei 13. His level 100 years ago is comparable to the current renji (or arrancar arc renji)
    That does make more sense, as if Byakuya had been at that level, he certainly would have been an officer. And Soi Fon was just a little girl, following Yoruichi around, worshipping her...

  4. #229
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I think it's a big stretch to say in one breath that Kaien was 'above Byakuya and Soi Fon' and in the next that he was at Renji and Ikkaku's level. Byakuya and Soi Fon are both CAPTAINS and more powerful and skilled than Renji or Ikkaku. If the reverse was true, then those two would not be captains. Also Renji would not have LOST to Byakuya and Byakuya would not still be the person who Renji looks up to, and who is still Renji's mentor. Sorry, you're pushing things a bit far with that. Kaien was a VC, and he was never shown to have a bankai. He may have been talented and suited to train to become a captain, but it was never realized, partly because he didn't want the position. It doesn't mean he didn't have the potential, but that he didn't pursue it.
    Really? 9 y.o. Byakuya and 9 y.o. SoiFon captain level? xD

  5. #230
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Really? 9 y.o. Byakuya and 9 y.o. SoiFon captain level? xD
    If you read my last post, you'll see that the point was clarified. I never said Byakuya was captain level at 9 years old, nor Soi Fon.

  6. #231
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    If you read my last post, you'll see that the point was clarified. I never said Byakuya was captain level at 9 years old, nor Soi Fon.
    And so I did. Still, I wrote that post before I saw you having clarified it.

  7. #232
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Hitsugaya is the youngest captain,and he was said to be a prodigy. I think he is above gin,as gin is much older than him. in 100 years the former will have surpassed kyoraku,that's enoguh

  8. #233
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    Hitsugaya is the youngest captain,and he was said to be a prodigy. I think he is above gin,as gin is much older than him. in 100 years the former will have surpassed kyoraku,that's enoguh
    Gin was the prodigy of his generation, so, that logic doesn't apply. Besides, beginning with his fight against Gin, then against Aizen twice, Hitsugaya has merely acted as more of a child than a captain, thus, hurting his overall reputation quite a bit. He himself destroyed his apparently calm and observing appearance when he attacked mindlessly whenever he thought there was an opportunity to do so.

  9. #234
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Gin was the prodigy of his generation, so, that logic doesn't apply. Besides, beginning with his fight against Gin, then against Aizen twice, Hitsugaya has merely acted as more of a child than a captain, thus, hurting his overall reputation quite a bit. He himself destroyed his apparently calm and observing appearance when he attacked mindlessly whenever he thought there was an opportunity to do so.
    I find it a bit unfair to compare skills and genius level while under the influence of Aizens Zan, those openings might have been perfectly logical to attack had he not been seeing things, and that was probably Aizens goal.
    Meh

  10. #235
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    I find it a bit unfair to compare skills and genius level while under the influence of Aizens Zan, those openings might have been perfectly logical to attack had he not been seeing things, and that was probably Aizens goal.
    Well, the attack in the Central 46 chambers, I'd understand. But his final head-on attack in FKT was a total failure, having made the other three captains follow him and get defeated fairly easily.
    I agree, though. The comparison isn't fair on its own. We will never a hypothetical reaction from Gin.

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  12. #236
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Well, the attack in the Central 46 chambers, I'd understand. But his final head-on attack in FKT was a total failure, having made the other three captains follow him and get defeated fairly easily.
    I agree, though. The comparison isn't fair on its own. We will never a hypothetical reaction from Gin.
    This is one of the fun things with Bleach though, in Naruto for example we have a pretty clear hierarchy, you pretty much know whos stronger and their elemental perks and cons points this out even clearer. The Gin toshiro debate though can go on for ages and in the end it can't be answered but it leads to very fun debates. Ive had a blast reading up on what people think about this.
    Meh

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  14. #237
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member kisuke u.'s Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    I’d place Gin at the top. He is a good player. Pretends to be innocent but deep down knows everything, his cunning nature. He knew the secret of kyokasuigetsu. He was the right hand of Aizen (at least in SS). But he messed up in the end. If he really wanted to kill Aizen, he should have done it before his fusion with the hogyoku.

    Byakuya at 2nd; He learned many techniques from his zan. He keeps his cool in battles and doesn’t let the opponent to corner him. He succeeded in figuring out the nature of zummari’s tricky power and its solution. He is not emotion driven which is an important factor. His arrogance is a hindrance in his development and sometimes makes him short sighted.

    Toshiro at 3rd; He is the child party that comes once in every few centuries (ep. is 48). He achieved bankai at an early age (which is rare or maybe one of its kind) and got an officer seat. Everyone treats him as a child but he is a captain. But his biggest flaw (in my opinion) is his emotion driven. He got owned many times because of this. A smart One can mislead him easily.
    Last edited by kisuke u.; March 11, 2013 at 06:53 AM. Reason: wanted to correct a figure.


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  15. #238
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Natural Talents and Genius Concept in Bleach

    I wonder what working under someone or having control over their emotions has to do with being a genius or natural talented. Those are character traits, which may affect their actions, not their ability to achieve great things though.
    Last edited by Schabrak; March 11, 2013 at 11:47 AM.
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  16. #239
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Who is more Genius, Toshiro Hitsugaya or Gin Ichimaru?

    These people were labeled as prodigies so which do you think is better?
    If this thread already exists, please delete this and guide me to the original. Thank you

  17. #240
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member raikwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is more Genius, Toshiro Hitsugaya or Gin Ichimaru?

    Well... by power... maybe Toshiro, if we are talking about brains... Gin


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