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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Kirge

    12 52.17%
  • Byakuya

    10 43.48%
  • Draw / Too close to tell

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Thread: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Byakuya does not have to match combat speed although there is no particular reason for him to be unable to match ichigo's power with his own bankai. His standard bankai petals are overall pretty fast and more importantly the sheer amount of petals he has is overwhelming. In that regard byakuya can easily make up for the difference in speed in regards to ichigo with the sheer number of petals. How does kirge in the end avoid the sheer number of petals? Its impossible unless he somehow figures out exactly how to fight byakuya's bankai.

    Why would byakuya be fodder to ichigo? Stronger? Definitely but by no means fodder.

    If slakverie was really that dangerous then even ichigo would not have been able to approach kirge and yet what we saw was that he was indeed able to get close. Byakuya does not even have to figure out the thing on kirges head is what controls the technique, a single hit from his bankai would hit all of kirge and by extention the disk.

    As far as we have seen barely anyone has the sheer power to get past blutz. Still, that is not how you defeat a quincy, you defeat him by nailing him while using blutz arterie. There is also the consideration that what hit kirge there was a shikai, byakuya's bankai and sheer volume of petals would obviously be stronger. Byakuya does not even actually have to get past blutz vene for that matter. Once kirge has to use his vene to defend from the petals he ends up in a situation similar to the one against ichigo. Once he is forced to stay in vene mode it is simply a matter of time, that is checkmate. Either he runs out of power to defend from bankai or uses blutz arterie and actually takes on the full might of bankai.

    There is nothing outrageously strong about kirge's holy arrows. Why would there be anything like that about them? Ichigo caught them with his bare hards, that alone shows base kirge is overall not a big deal. Even volstandig kirge did not outright kill shikai ichigo which goes to show volstandig kirge was not that big deal either. If kirge had been worth a damn at any point then he would have been able to do anything other than being fodderized against bankai ichigo.

    And there is still the point that the kirge in this battle won't even have the decency of being as strong as the one who fought ichigo. The kirge we saw ichigo fighting had absorbed allon which gave him an actual power boost. Kirge is this thread does not have that. So... how does he deal with the sheer volume of petals byakuya has? If ichigo's bare hands could handle kirges base arrows then obviously they wouldn't do a thing to byakuya in whatever form, let alone his bankai. There is no reason for volstandig holy arrows to be able to get past senbonsakura either for that matter. In a range battle byakuya does not have to actually catch up to kirge with his bankai at all, he just has to systematically surround him with petals. At that point kirge has to defend with blutz vene. Once the battle gets to that point he either maintains vene and keeps taking hits or changes to arterie and still takes hits.
    1) The petals are taken care off by the power of absorption.
    Also I don't think you realise how powerful Ichigo is. He transcended past the shinigami lvl so to compare him to Byakuya is just plain silly.
    He caught Kirge's holy arrow with his hand should actually tell ya how powerful (physically) he must be also. His physical capabilities is greatly enhanced.

    2) Ichigo is FAR superior to Byakuya in combat thus Byakuya would be fodder (Ichigo can take Byakuya out in less than 0.1 secs if Ichigo truely had to).

    3) Ichigo is that much above Kirge that the logic just doesn't work. He also destroyed Kirge's ability of absorption to a degree (yes the disc on Kirge's head only helps increase his power of absorption. Once it's destroyed, it doesn't prevent him from absorbing for he is still a quincy) but to say because Ichigo (whose combat power & speed is in a tier of it's own) did it doesn't mean Byakuya can do it. In fact Kirge could simply absorb what Byakuya throws at him before it's even close.

    4) Blut vene enabled Kirge to tank Ichigo's GT to the NECK. It's preposterous to suggest Byakuya can dish out the same lvl of power but more importantly Byakuya & his abilities are vulnerable to live.

    5) KEY WORD: Ichigo caught them.

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  3. #32
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    1) The petals are taken care off by the power of absorption.
    Also I don't think you realise how powerful Ichigo is. He transcended past the shinigami lvl so to compare him to Byakuya is just plain silly.
    He caught Kirge's holy arrow with his hand should actually tell ya how powerful (physically) he must be also. His physical capabilities is greatly enhanced.

    2) Ichigo is FAR superior to Byakuya in combat thus Byakuya would be fodder (Ichigo can take Byakuya out in less than 0.1 secs if Ichigo truely had to).

    3) Ichigo is that much above Kirge that the logic just doesn't work. He also destroyed Kirge's ability of absorption to a degree (yes the disc on Kirge's head only helps increase his power of absorption. Once it's destroyed, it doesn't prevent him from absorbing for he is still a quincy) but to say because Ichigo (whose combat power & speed is in a tier of it's own) did it doesn't mean Byakuya can do it. In fact Kirge could simply absorb what Byakuya throws at him before it's even close.

    4) Blut vene enabled Kirge to tank Ichigo's GT to the NECK. It's preposterous to suggest Byakuya can dish out the same lvl of power but more importantly Byakuya & his abilities are vulnerable to live.

    5) KEY WORD: Ichigo caught them.
    If the absorption was that much to begin with then why is there even a manga right now? The quincy would simply have to change to their volstandig and approach captains to absorb them. Even yamamoto would be fodderized against a few stern rittern using volstandig. Then again vandenreich waiting 1000 years years, developing bankai absorbing badges and attacking just when ichigo was not immediately available to SS suggests the quincy cannot just walk up to captain level people and absorb them. Mayuri is not even one of the stronger captains in terms of reiatsu and even then he was basically fine with the absorption from the lets stilt which at least visually was the same as volstandig. I don't think any single captain out there is actually at risk of "living", let alone being absorbed by the standard reishi absorption.

    Even assuming byakuya was fodder to ichigo (which I do doubt) why does that suggest byakuya would be fodder to kirge? Kirge was at no point during the match even somewhat of a challenge to ichigo. The only moment at which he appeared to be vaguely dangerous was when kirge took the fight a level higher with his volstandig. Base kirge was fodder to shikai ichigo. Whatever advantage volstandig gave to kirge disappeared the second ichigo went bankai. Kirge had already lost the fight the second he could not change to blutz arterie. I would argue that even if urahara hadn't intervened during the fight kirge would have lost at that moment just the same. As far as we know blutz arterie does not make the user fast meaning that kirge still could not react to ichigo's speed and he was about as soft and mushy as just about any regular soul in the manga. And that is kirge with the added strength of allon (who I doubt is of captain level strength but still has decent power).

    Blutz vene is hardly a measure of how strong someone is to begin with. Yamamoto's bare fists exceed the power of a captains bankai and we actually saw royd blocking the god damned ryujin jakka with blutz alone. Nodt had no trouble whatsoever blocking byakuya's sword with vene. Ichigo on his first try actually blocked a slash from the guy who killed yamamoto to the neck. If defeating the quincy was a simple matter of getting past blutz then the shinigami and the royal guard already lost the war against the quincy and lost miserably at that(almost as miserably as they would lose if captain level shinigami could be absorbed by your average stern rittern). The quincy do not have the benefit of blutz vene at all times, they necessarily have to drop it to actually attack and when they do drop it they are about as vulnerable as any captain level shinigami would be to attack.

    In the end blutz is an exceptional defense however it has its risks and flaws. The moment a quincy attacks he is about as weak to enemy attacks as just about anyone. If he gets caught in a combo attack or fights a bankai which can attack relentlessly (say, byakuya's or gin's) then the stern rittern in question is turned into a punching bag taking hits without having enough room to counter.

    For that matter, why would kirge be that strong to begin with? He was the first stern rittern introduced, are we to believe that he is among the stronger stern rittern out there? The scenario where he isn't one of the stronger stern rittern out there is even worst as any captain who is not shunsui, unohana or kenpachi would be screwed against them. If byakuya is fodder to kirge then what can love, soifon, rose, shinji, komamura, kensei, hitsugaya, mayuri, lisa, hiyori, urahara, soifon or tessai ever hope to contribute to the war? Granted there probably are a few stern rittern that can make fodder out of shinigami captains however the notion of kirge being vaguely in the same league as those is absurd. To be honest I don't even think kirge is on the same league as the stern rittern who got some mention during the invasion a while back (particularly the ones who got a double spread when the stern rittern got introduced).

  4. #33
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    If the absorption was that much to begin with then why is there even a manga right now? The quincy would simply have to change to their volstandig and approach captains to absorb them. Even yamamoto would be fodderized against a few stern rittern using volstandig. Then again vandenreich waiting 1000 years years, developing bankai absorbing badges and attacking just when ichigo was not immediately available to SS suggests the quincy cannot just walk up to captain level people and absorb them. Mayuri is not even one of the stronger captains in terms of reiatsu and even then he was basically fine with the absorption from the lets stilt which at least visually was the same as volstandig. I don't think any single captain out there is actually at risk of "living", let alone being absorbed by the standard reishi absorption.

    Even assuming byakuya was fodder to ichigo (which I do doubt) why does that suggest byakuya would be fodder to kirge? Kirge was at no point during the match even somewhat of a challenge to ichigo. The only moment at which he appeared to be vaguely dangerous was when kirge took the fight a level higher with his volstandig. Base kirge was fodder to shikai ichigo. Whatever advantage volstandig gave to kirge disappeared the second ichigo went bankai. Kirge had already lost the fight the second he could not change to blutz arterie. I would argue that even if urahara hadn't intervened during the fight kirge would have lost at that moment just the same. As far as we know blutz arterie does not make the user fast meaning that kirge still could not react to ichigo's speed and he was about as soft and mushy as just about any regular soul in the manga. And that is kirge with the added strength of allon (who I doubt is of captain level strength but still has decent power).

    Blutz vene is hardly a measure of how strong someone is to begin with. Yamamoto's bare fists exceed the power of a captains bankai and we actually saw royd blocking the god damned ryujin jakka with blutz alone. Nodt had no trouble whatsoever blocking byakuya's sword with vene. Ichigo on his first try actually blocked a slash from the guy who killed yamamoto to the neck. If defeating the quincy was a simple matter of getting past blutz then the shinigami and the royal guard already lost the war against the quincy and lost miserably at that(almost as miserably as they would lose if captain level shinigami could be absorbed by your average stern rittern). The quincy do not have the benefit of blutz vene at all times, they necessarily have to drop it to actually attack and when they do drop it they are about as vulnerable as any captain level shinigami would be to attack.

    In the end blutz is an exceptional defense however it has its risks and flaws. The moment a quincy attacks he is about as weak to enemy attacks as just about anyone. If he gets caught in a combo attack or fights a bankai which can attack relentlessly (say, byakuya's or gin's) then the stern rittern in question is turned into a punching bag taking hits without having enough room to counter.

    For that matter, why would kirge be that strong to begin with? He was the first stern rittern introduced, are we to believe that he is among the stronger stern rittern out there? The scenario where he isn't one of the stronger stern rittern out there is even worst as any captain who is not shunsui, unohana or kenpachi would be screwed against them. If byakuya is fodder to kirge then what can love, soifon, rose, shinji, komamura, kensei, hitsugaya, mayuri, lisa, hiyori, urahara, soifon or tessai ever hope to contribute to the war? Granted there probably are a few stern rittern that can make fodder out of shinigami captains however the notion of kirge being vaguely in the same league as those is absurd. To be honest I don't even think kirge is on the same league as the stern rittern who got some mention during the invasion a while back (particularly the ones who got a double spread when the stern rittern got introduced).
    1) I've given reasons as too why the captains didn't get decimated & Torran has done it even more so. Go check it out on the "How did kenpachi get beat" thread.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-20.html
    Stern Ritter Member:予想より長引きましたね
    That took longer than we predicted
    Quincy Lord:ああ
    Yes
    Quincy Lord:やはり我が星十字騎士団は甘さだけが欠点だ
    It seems leniency is the only flaw my Stern Ritter possesses

    "Mayuri is not even one of the stronger captains in terms of reiatsu." I honestly wonder were you are getting this from
    If you were comparing him to Yamamoto's reiatsu then it's simple that he loses however so does every other captain.
    What we do know about him is that he is a captain with captain class reiatsu & that goes for the rest of the gotei 13 members (not that the subject itself is relevent to the topic at hand). http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-15.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...22-page-6.html

    2) Do you doubt Byakuya is fodder to Yamamoto?
    Blut is a give & take system. Kirge made it sound like if Blut Vene is at 100%, Blut Arterie could then only be at 0% (meaning it can't be used at all). So if Blut vene is at 50%, blut arterie could only be used at maximum 50%. Kirge had to keep Blut Vene at full power against Ichigo's powerful & flash strikes. That's something Byakuya cannot hope to match.

    Once Kirge uses the power of vollstandig, Byakuya becomes nothing but fodder to him. The boost vollstandig grands is mathematically greater than bankai. The user of the tech is pushed beyond his or her current max. Uryu used the inferior verson when his powers was undeveloped & decimated a captain...in bankai when he could hardly be considered vc level, so imagine what a captain class quincy would do with it while utilising it's full power.

    3/4) First of all, rid of this mentality that gotei 13 even had a chance to begin with. THEY DIDN'T & STILL DON'T!! http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...8-page-21.html
    The invasion of SS was a massacre that was meant to convey that this war is far beyond what the gotei 13 alone can handle hence we are introduced to other characters.
    The moment Yamamoto died should have told ya that ain't no joke. It's not something gotei 13 can take care off (We have Kukaku also saying SS would be destroyed in the next invasion WITHOUT Ichigo).

    We also don't know what the Royal Guards are capable off. For all you know these guys may have developed ways of exceeding certain limits (afterall, everything done in the spirit palace is literally done on God's scale). For all you know they may be 5x stronger than Yamamoto individually (which would be freakin awesome).

    Another thing is, you can get around Blut Vene. Destructive force isn't the only form of combat. Blut Vene itself can be overpower with extreme force (like Yamamoto in bankai did) though it's even much harder to deal with the tech Blut when Vollstandig is activated.

    4) You seriously doubting why a sternritter with the letter J appointed by His Majesty to be his own personally Guard would be strong?
    Not that it matters anyway because HE WAS PROVEN to be strong & the activation of Vollstandig is the difference maker.
    In fact Kubo conveniently used the legendary Ichigo (of all people) as the test subject for Vollstandig.
    Last edited by Kay3795; January 28, 2013 at 11:04 PM.

  5. #34
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    1) I've given reasons as too why the captains didn't get decimated & Torran has done it even more so. Go check it out on the "How did kenpachi get beat" thread.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-20.html
    Stern Ritter Member:予想より長引きましたね
    That took longer than we predicted
    Quincy Lord:ああ
    Yes
    Quincy Lord:やはり我が星十字騎士団は甘さだけが欠点だ
    It seems leniency is the only flaw my Stern Ritter possesses
    That's only an assumption from Bach's side. He probably overestimated his army's battle power by some distance. Majority of his soldiers were probably around captain-level or just above that, so, decimation is out of the equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    "Mayuri is not even one of the stronger captains in terms of reiatsu." I honestly wonder were you are getting this from
    If you were comparing him to Yamamoto's reiatsu then it's simple that he loses however so does every other captain.
    What we do know about him is that he is a captain with captain class reiatsu & that goes for the rest of the gotei 13 members (not that the subject itself is relevent to the topic at hand). http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-15.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...22-page-6.html
    The captain-class reiatsu thing has become a vague concept now. On the other hand, there is no need to go by reiatsu alone. Mayuri isn't a fighter, he's a researcher. Moreover, his Bankai is a huge, pretty much immobile thing that can do nothing against an attack of that volume. What about Byakuya's Bankai, then? He can easily dodge an attack of that sorts himself and even can make his blades dodge them. In my opinion, those two Bankai are incomparable from a certain standpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    2) Do you doubt Byakuya is fodder to Yamamoto?
    Blut is a give & take system. Kirge made it sound like if Blut Vene is at 100%, Blut Arterie could then only be at 0% (meaning it can't be used at all). So if Blut vene is at 50%, blut arterie could only be used at maximum 50%. Kirge had to keep Blut Vene at full power against Ichigo's powerful & flash strikes. That's something Byakuya cannot hope to match.

    Once Kirge uses the power of vollstandig, Byakuya becomes nothing but fodder to him. The boost vollstandig grands is mathematically greater than bankai. The user of the tech is pushed beyond his or her current max. Uryu used the inferior verson when his powers was undeveloped & decimated a captain...in bankai when he could hardly be considered vc level, so imagine what a captain class quincy would do with it while utilising it's full power.
    I'm not sure where you are getting this mathematical superiority to begin with.
    And as I stated above, Mayuri isn't a fighter. Though, that attack could destroy a lot of things if they just sit around and wait for the attack to connect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    3/4) First of all, rid of this mentality that gotei 13 even had a chance to begin with. THEY DIDN'T & STILL DON'T!! http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...8-page-21.html
    The invasion of SS was a massacre that was meant to convey that this war is far beyond what the gotei 13 alone can handle hence we are introduced to other characters.
    The moment Yamamoto died should have told ya that ain't no joke. It's not something gotei 13 can take care off (We have Kukaku also saying SS would be destroyed in the next invasion WITHOUT Ichigo).

    We also don't know what the Royal Guards are capable off. For all you know these guys may have developed ways of exceeding certain limits (afterall, everything done in the spirit palace is literally done on God's scale). For all you know they may be 5x stronger than Yamamoto individually (which would be freakin awesome).

    Another thing is, you can get around Blut Vene. Destructive force isn't the only form of combat. Blut Vene itself can be overpower with extreme force (like Yamamoto in bankai did) though it's even much harder to deal with the tech Blut when Vollstandig is activated.
    Yes, massacre of fodder Shinigami. Captain-Commander's death means the enemy boss is strong. It's not telling anything about his army, and the reason Kuukaku suggests they can't handle it the next time is purely because of Bach's power, not the SR.
    On a side note, 5x Captain-Commander strength would really be a lame revelation. My opinion about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    4) You seriously doubting why a sternritter with the letter J appointed by His Majesty to be his own personally Guard would be strong?
    Not that it matters anyway because HE WAS PROVEN to be strong & the activation of Vollstandig is the difference maker.
    In fact Kubo conveniently used the legendary Ichigo (of all people) as the test subject for Vollstandig.
    He's his personal guard? How? It looked like it was Haschwald. Of all the people, Bach only used SR as stalling cards so that the captains didn't team up on him and he could go one-on-one with Captain-Commander without any hindrance. He couldn't care less about what strength they brought to the table. The only reason he was paired with Ichigo wasn't because of the legendary power Ichigo possessed or to demonstrate Vollstandig. It was for the sake of his imprisonment skill. That's the reason why he was left behind in HM to stall Ichigo and he did what he was asked of. Nothing more than that for me.

  6. #35
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    1) I've given reasons as too why the captains didn't get decimated & Torran has done it even more so. Go check it out on the "How did kenpachi get beat" thread.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-20.html
    Stern Ritter Member:予想より長引きましたね
    That took longer than we predicted
    Quincy Lord:ああ
    Yes
    Quincy Lord:やはり我が星十字騎士団は甘さだけが欠点だ
    It seems leniency is the only flaw my Stern Ritter possesses

    "Mayuri is not even one of the stronger captains in terms of reiatsu." I honestly wonder were you are getting this from
    If you were comparing him to Yamamoto's reiatsu then it's simple that he loses however so does every other captain.
    What we do know about him is that he is a captain with captain class reiatsu & that goes for the rest of the gotei 13 members (not that the subject itself is relevent to the topic at hand). http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-15.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...22-page-6.html

    2) Do you doubt Byakuya is fodder to Yamamoto?
    Blut is a give & take system. Kirge made it sound like if Blut Vene is at 100%, Blut Arterie could then only be at 0% (meaning it can't be used at all). So if Blut vene is at 50%, blut arterie could only be used at maximum 50%. Kirge had to keep Blut Vene at full power against Ichigo's powerful & flash strikes. That's something Byakuya cannot hope to match.

    Once Kirge uses the power of vollstandig, Byakuya becomes nothing but fodder to him. The boost vollstandig grands is mathematically greater than bankai. The user of the tech is pushed beyond his or her current max. Uryu used the inferior verson when his powers was undeveloped & decimated a captain...in bankai when he could hardly be considered vc level, so imagine what a captain class quincy would do with it while utilising it's full power.

    3/4) First of all, rid of this mentality that gotei 13 even had a chance to begin with. THEY DIDN'T & STILL DON'T!! http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...8-page-21.html
    The invasion of SS was a massacre that was meant to convey that this war is far beyond what the gotei 13 alone can handle hence we are introduced to other characters.
    The moment Yamamoto died should have told ya that ain't no joke. It's not something gotei 13 can take care off (We have Kukaku also saying SS would be destroyed in the next invasion WITHOUT Ichigo).

    We also don't know what the Royal Guards are capable off. For all you know these guys may have developed ways of exceeding certain limits (afterall, everything done in the spirit palace is literally done on God's scale). For all you know they may be 5x stronger than Yamamoto individually (which would be freakin awesome).

    Another thing is, you can get around Blut Vene. Destructive force isn't the only form of combat. Blut Vene itself can be overpower with extreme force (like Yamamoto in bankai did) though it's even much harder to deal with the tech Blut when Vollstandig is activated.

    4) You seriously doubting why a sternritter with the letter J appointed by His Majesty to be his own personally Guard would be strong?
    Not that it matters anyway because HE WAS PROVEN to be strong & the activation of Vollstandig is the difference maker.
    In fact Kubo conveniently used the legendary Ichigo (of all people) as the test subject for Vollstandig.
    I don't doubt byakuya is fodder to yamamoto. What does that have to do with anything? Or is volstandig kirge somehow not a microbe to yamamoto?

    Blutz is by no means a give and take system and no single manga instance actually suggests that. If anything, what the manga so far specifically says is the most extreme opposite. I guess there is room for urahara to be wrong up to this point however given the situation I kinda have my doubts. I mean, we are talking about urahara himself analyzing the battle ichigo was fighting. Even if you can learn to balance blutz, it is certain at least kirge did not have that ability.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...3-page-13.html

    Even better translations than manga stream say that vene and arterie cannot be used at the same time.
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/badkarma/releases/35032
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/35169

    Some level of offensive ability exists while using blutz vene (as kirge was at least able to deal insignificant damage) however its completely irrelevant.

    Volstandig and lets stilt provide an entirely different boost from bankai though, I would think that makes the two hard to compare. Volstandig charges the user with power it takes from around and results in an apparently proportional increase in power. In turn bankai simply consumes an overwhelming amount of power and focuses it into one technique, weapon or ability. The quincy do not have techniques which innately consume or even use an overwhelming amount of power and the shinigami do not have the overwhelming amount of reiatsu to use bankai comfortably (as we have seen bankai takes decades to master and even then it tires and strains shinigami). I would argue the situation in the manga will be that they kinda even out because of the limitations each of them will have. If quincy unique techniques without volstandig are comparable to a shinigamis shikai then with volstandig they will simply work like superpowered shikais which is still not quite the same as a bankai equivalent would be as the weapon itself wouldn't be innately using an overwhelming amount of power.


    What kon said there is barely relevant. The quincy randomly appeared all through sereitei and had plenty of time until the captains had finished mobilizing to kill shinigami. Release the captains at the quincy base at random points where there are no captains and the result will be exactly the same, a bunch of soldiers and VC level dudes getting fodderized.

    The reason SS was screwed was not that they were too weak to begin with. Its very easy for juhabach to say that when he waltz into sereitei with a weapon which specifically reduces a shinigamis power to a fraction of what it would normally be. Byakuya got defeated because he did not have his bankai with him. Yamamoto himself got defeated for not having his bankai with him. Plotwise the badges won't always be there to foil shinigami and the stolen bankais will get recovered. In the end the quincy did not win the last invasion through strength. If anything in a situation where strength was all that mattered I don't see any reason for the two forces to not be comparable to some degree (depending on the strength of the average stern rittern it is likely things still turn slightly to the quincies favor however that would be the case only if all of the 27 stern rittern are actually well above a VC class fighter).

    The stern rittern are as far as the manga has told us the equivalent to captains and VCs. From what I gathered kirge was obviously well stronger than a VC level fighter however I don't see how the level he showed suggests he was altogether above the captain class. Kirges only purpose was to show off quincy abilities. I don't buy that ichigo's current strength is actually that of all the captains combined, that is beyond ridiculous on all accounts. If ichigo really had that kind of power then he wouldn't even need shikai to outright fodderized juhabach and yamamoto combined (since yamamoto also gave power to the sword). The point of the sword was not to make him into a guy with the combined might of every ally he has, the point was to awake the power which was already within ichigo. Ichigo is definitely stronger than before however I doubt that he is so much stronger than before that previous ichigo would be fodder.

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  8. #36
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    No sealing device, Byakuya wins, while Volstanding gave a great boost to Quilge, I don't think he'd win against Byakuya with his Bankai

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member daman246's Avatar
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    Re: Kirge Opie vs Byakuya Kuchiki

    Kirge easily rapes byakuya.

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