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Thread: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Well, the issue with yoruichi is that she does not seem to carry a zampakuto at all with her. More so, she actually had one during a small flashback of her training with urahara. Maybe she does keep it but considering how things have developed recently I don't think her zampakuto is a factor in the grand scheme of things. Even when she fought against aizen she used some weird armor urahara made rather than a zampakuto which if she had it would not be an issue to go get before the fight. Yoruichi is basically a ninja with the power to descimate an army by herself (which she has done), I would be very surprised if she was for whatever reason unable to recover it. No, it hasn't been stated that she does not fight a zampakuto nor do we have a confirmation of whatever happened to it however based on what we have seen there is no reason for us to think her zampakuto is a variable in the whole bleach equation.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    I think people overestimate youruichi. They seem to think that just because see doesn't have her zanpaktou that if she uses it she will become god tier. That is not the case. Look at soifon. Her zanpaktou does not give her a boost in any way. Sure youruichi zanpaktou may give her an ability that enhances her fighting style but it isn't going to make her uber strong.

    That being said, i think she would do well against a Sr if she keeps calm and not.factoring in specials of the quincies ie fear.

    I don't believe the vizards will make a huge differences, especially the fodder vcs. I fully expect rose and love to get embarrassed again

    Soifons shikai is good but im not sure she can pierce them

    Yama obviously. I am expecting all the seniors to win

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    I think people overestimate youruichi. They seem to think that just because see doesn't have her zanpaktou that if she uses it she will become god tier. That is not the case. Look at soifon. Her zanpaktou does not give her a boost in any way. Sure youruichi zanpaktou may give her an ability that enhances her fighting style but it isn't going to make her uber strong.

    I don't believe the vizards will make a huge differences, especially the fodder vcs. I fully expect rose and love to get embarrassed again
    She is goddess of shunpo. She is already GOD tier in speed, which is most important thing in bleach universe, on par with zanpakuto and overall strength. She owned Yami without shunko and could seriously crack Aizens shell in hogyoku.

    Soifon's Suzumebachi doesn't give her boost? You're joking, right? Something light what can be used without fatigue and effort that kills in 2 hits. It DOESN'T suit stealth type like Soi-Fon. No, it really doesn't. And I think its not about their blut and defense. It makes a mark on 1st, kills when that mark is being hit 2nd. Of course, when reiatsu levels are different it doesn't do shit.

    Vaizards are the only ones who can fight on bankai lvl without using it (Hollowfication), so they WILL be significant.

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    I really expected more to pick Senji, completely confusing the enemy would be great for people to attack them while not using Bankai

  5. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    She is goddess of shunpo. She is already GOD tier in speed, which is most important thing in bleach universe, on par with zanpakuto and overall strength. She owned Yami without shunko and could seriously crack Aizens shell in hogyoku.

    Soifon's Suzumebachi doesn't give her boost? You're joking, right? Something light what can be used without fatigue and effort that kills in 2 hits. It DOESN'T suit stealth type like Soi-Fon. No, it really doesn't. And I think its not about their blut and defense. It makes a mark on 1st, kills when that mark is being hit 2nd. Of course, when reiatsu levels are different it doesn't do shit.

    Vaizards are the only ones who can fight on bankai lvl without using it (Hollowfication), so they WILL be significant.
    Well, god tier is a very subjective term and the whole thing is ultimately a mix of reiatsu and skill. While yoruichi is without a doubt unsurpassed in shunpo, she is by no means unsurpassed in reaitsu. And yoruichi did end up reasonably hurt after the fight with yami and against aizen she ended up heavily relying on the equipment urahara made for her. Of course, aizen was basically immortal so realistically all we saw in that fight is a horrible example for everything except aizen being immortal.

    I think he means susumebachi does not increase speed or strength, defense nor it enhances offense directly. All she gets is a dagger which is only useful once she does land the second hit in a location which she already pierced. The ability is powerful but even the lower level stern rittern could potentially take a hit and not be pierced by it considering what we have seen blutz do.

    To be honest at this point I would argue yoruichi would be better off against the stern rittern though. It seems highly likely that soifon won't actually be able to pierce blutz however yoruichi in turn would theoretically have similar armor to what she had against aizen along with a better shunko than soifon. Blunt damage + actual destructive power would have the best chance of working. Shunko even seems to have a bit of range which might also prove useful. In a worst case scenario soifon has to deal with a long ranged enemy (all quincy do still seem to have a manner of personalized bow so far) with a extremely short ranged weapon which does not work. Of course, if soifon does learn how blutz works then she might be able to perfectly time her 2 hits but for that she would have to somehow realize offensive and defensive blutz has to be alternated.

    Even if the vizards had trouble against their enemies during the winter war I think they would be more useful than most captains. Love was able to deal with every cero stark could throw in a manner which shunsui was completely unable to and the mere collateral damage of his shikai destroyed entire city blocks. If his shikai was able to block starks ceros I would argue he would be also able to block holly arrows. Shinji has the benefit of mask along with a shikai which would allow him to trick and confuse his enemy. I think his ability and mask put him in a privileged position. If only he knew about how blutz works it would be a perfect setup for a good counter. The VC vizards would obviously not compare to the stronger stern rittern however they would do far better than the VCs against the lower level stern rittern. The VC vizards were actually able to hold their ground against the espada to a great degree, it wouldn't be strange that with their masks they could go up against lower levels stern rittern with volstandig.

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, god tier is a very subjective term and the whole thing is ultimately a mix of reiatsu and skill. While yoruichi is without a doubt unsurpassed in shunpo, she is by no means unsurpassed in reaitsu. And yoruichi did end up reasonably hurt after the fight with yami and against aizen she ended up heavily relying on the equipment urahara made for her. Of course, aizen was basically immortal so realistically all we saw in that fight is a horrible example for everything except aizen being immortal.

    I think he means susumebachi does not increase speed or strength, defense nor it enhances offense directly. All she gets is a dagger which is only useful once she does land the second hit in a location which she already pierced. The ability is powerful but even the lower level stern rittern could potentially take a hit and not be pierced by it considering what we have seen blutz do.

    To be honest at this point I would argue yoruichi would be better off against the stern rittern though. It seems highly likely that soifon won't actually be able to pierce blutz however yoruichi in turn would theoretically have similar armor to what she had against aizen along with a better shunko than soifon. Blunt damage + actual destructive power would have the best chance of working. Shunko even seems to have a bit of range which might also prove useful. In a worst case scenario soifon has to deal with a long ranged enemy (all quincy do still seem to have a manner of personalized bow so far) with a extremely short ranged weapon which does not work. Of course, if soifon does learn how blutz works then she might be able to perfectly time her 2 hits but for that she would have to somehow realize offensive and defensive blutz has to be alternated.

    Even if the vizards had trouble against their enemies during the winter war I think they would be more useful than most captains. Love was able to deal with every cero stark could throw in a manner which shunsui was completely unable to and the mere collateral damage of his shikai destroyed entire city blocks. If his shikai was able to block starks ceros I would argue he would be also able to block holly arrows. Shinji has the benefit of mask along with a shikai which would allow him to trick and confuse his enemy. I think his ability and mask put him in a privileged position. If only he knew about how blutz works it would be a perfect setup for a good counter. The VC vizards would obviously not compare to the stronger stern rittern however they would do far better than the VCs against the lower level stern rittern. The VC vizards were actually able to hold their ground against the espada to a great degree, it wouldn't be strange that with their masks they could go up against lower levels stern rittern with volstandig.
    Saying she is in god tier was playing with words in her title. She IS fast, but Ichigo because of his bankai's ability (increasing speed and strength, or simply changing reiatsu into speed and strength, considering his state when he fought Aizen, which would explain his big reiatsu [and need for it to be so big] and ability to "throw" his reiatsu... controlling reiatsu basically) is faster then her. Shunko gives her boost and it can't be stolen. It's like bankai of hers and Soi-Fon's.

    Yoruichi was hurt during owning Yammi? I don't remember that at all. But I do remember her throwing Yammi like bag of potatoes, and then getting surprised, but Urahara saved her.

    Suzumebachi doesn't benefit her speed or strength? Well, such weapon because of being light and being practically some armor on her finger is LOTS faster than sword. The very ability doesn't benefit, but it's shape does.

  7. #22
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    First off i assume that we are talking about the high class quincies, not all of them. It would make more sense because if we are discussing all the sternritters then the list would be extremely long.

    Secondly, concerning youruichi, speed is great but not everything. Just her speed isn't going give her the win over high level fighters. She was injured fighting an unreleased yammi. Any fight regarding Aizen post hokyoku is a bad example. After he absorbed hokyoku he became less.careless and.gave urahara, youruichi and issuing free shots to show how superior he was. Cracking the shell means nothing since you can't tell me how tough that shell is. Again, youruichi seems like a fighter that doesn't.even use her zanpaktou....like how soifon has bankai but does not use it. I am betting that we have seen most of what youruichi can do.

    As for the vizards, they have not impressed me in the least. Most would get destroyed by a higher level sternritter imo.
    Love repelling the ceros reflect on how convenient his zanpaktou is as oppose to his own strength. It was the mass of is zanpaktou that conveniently blocked the ceros, furthermore, from my memory i believe starkks only fire a few. Aesthetics don't mean much in bleach. Hitsu created a huge explosion just by unsheathing his sword. Give shunsui a bigger sword and he can do that too. What i am saying is hat just because loves zanpaktou os big enough to block ceros does not mean he is at or even close to.shunsui level. It is.circumstantial.

    I have yet to see anything from her masks to make.me think it will give them a huge boost capable of beating a high level sternritter. However they may surprise me. But after their horrible display in the winter arc i doubt it

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Secondly, concerning youruichi, speed is great but not everything. Just her speed isn't going give her the win over high level fighters. She was injured fighting an unreleased yammi. Any fight regarding Aizen post hokyoku is a bad example. After he absorbed hokyoku he became less.careless and.gave urahara, youruichi and issuing free shots to show how superior he was. Cracking the shell means nothing since you can't tell me how tough that shell is. Again, youruichi seems like a fighter that doesn't.even use her zanpaktou....like how soifon has bankai but does not use it. I am betting that we have seen most of what youruichi can do.

    I have yet to see anything from her masks to make.me think it will give them a huge boost capable of beating a high level sternritter. However they may surprise me. But after their horrible display in the winter arc i doubt it
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-648-6/...apter-194.html

    Where is she getting injured? Show me where she's getting injured while using Shunko against Yammi. She then said it was mistake she didn't use it, because skin was hard. But that doesn't mean she's weak. She still managed to beat the shit out of him. Difference between shunko and normal hand is like between sharp sword and wooden boken.

    Masks

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bromamura's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    First off i assume that we are talking about the high class quincies, not all of them. It would make more sense because if we are discussing all the sternritters then the list would be extremely long.

    Secondly, concerning youruichi, speed is great but not everything. Just her speed isn't going give her the win over high level fighters. She was injured fighting an unreleased yammi. Any fight regarding Aizen post hokyoku is a bad example. After he absorbed hokyoku he became less.careless and.gave urahara, youruichi and issuing free shots to show how superior he was. Cracking the shell means nothing since you can't tell me how tough that shell is. Again, youruichi seems like a fighter that doesn't.even use her zanpaktou....like how soifon has bankai but does not use it. I am betting that we have seen most of what youruichi can do.
    Well the shell helped him survive Isshins GT so there's that I suppose.

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-649-2/...apter-195.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-649-3/...apter-195.html

    Of course, yoruichi wasn't extremely hurt however the fact remains that punching hard things does not quite agree with her. In this particular case we are talking about the quincy having stronger skin than arrancar's hierro which is not unimportant.

    Now, one way or another anything regarding yoruichi or soifon would end up depending on just how they time their attacks to get past blutz. Blutz can be used either to enhance defense or to enhance offense so the trick here for basically anyone is to know when to counter. Using blutz has the direct implication of being able to either attack or defend at one time. Any shinigami could potentially take advantage of this, specially when the badge thing stops being an issue (which is likely to be the case in a near future). Perhaps the issue here could also be about simply outlasting the quincy in question. As we saw with kirge it is possible to solely use defensive blutz however that in itself can leave you open to more attacks. I would argue there is a limit to just how much one can defend with it.

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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Being fast is definitely a plus against Sternritters because of this defensive/offensive blut concept but it seems you need to have considerable amount of strength or a hax-ability to end them so that they can't fight back and eventually defeat you. Byakuya can be considered to be one of the fastest captains but he failed to put much pressure on As Nodt because he didn't have his bankai. This is without quincy vollstandig which would make As Nodt even faster and stronger.

    On the other hand, Kirge took a great deal of punishment from Ayon, yet he kept fighting as if nothing happened. Top-class quincies also have the ability ransōtengai which lets them fight with their heavily injured bodies, if a shinigami lets a SR survive that long, he probably receives a couple of hits which are powered by vollstandig that may prove fatal. Urahara was seemingly unable to stop Kirge after Kirge shot him in the back. We still don't know how a shinigami can defend himself against holy slave technique unless he breaks the disk on the quincy's head which I assume won't be easy.

    If Soifon thought her shikai was more than enough to defeat her opponent, I guess she wouldn't use her bankai. It's possible that her shikai may fail to pierce the defensive blut, which makes things incredibly harder for her. Yoruichi's shunko may cause a great deal of damage to her opponent but it's unknown how long she can keep fighting in that state. Shunsui and Shinji have better chances due to their hax abilities but I'm not sure if they can win because Shunsui thinks they face opponents whom they can only defeat with bankai.

    Yamamoto and Kenpachi are the most suitable candidates to fight SR because they have great strength and endurance. Other than those two, IMHO Ichigo (his bankai can't be stolen), Yoruichi and arguably Tessai (they can fight at a high level without a zanpakuto), and Shinji and Shunsui (they have tricky shikai abilities) are better suited to fight strong members of SR.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    Well, there is yet another thing to consider regarding blutz:
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/492/16
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/496/7
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/498/15
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/499/8
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/499/2
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/499/17
    There is the issue that so far quincy seem able to straight up regenerate. Kirge was in two situations where he should have died, when he had his neck broken by alon and when urahara used his beam on kirge's chest. Even arrancar would have had trouble surviving that. Which leaves the question, to what extent a quincy has to be hurt before dying? It also seemed like nodt regenerated from byakuya's shikai attack. So basically blutz is by all intents and purposes impenetrable and even if it does get penetrated there is the regeneration to deal with. Ordinarily I would argue that a shinigami's shikai would be at a comparable level to a quincy using his based form and weapon however if we factor in virtual invulnerability when using blutz and quincy's regeneration then the situation is much worst for shinigami. Perhaps the situation we are dealing with is that between warriors of comparable level it is simply not possible for shinigami to win with shikai alone and the power of bankai is invariably needed. Otherwise the scenario we are dealing with is somehow getting a one hit KO. It is not impossible however doing that to someone of comparable level borders precisely on that. Bankai would basically be able to stand up to the power of volstandig and be strong enough to get past blutz and deal enough damage to kill. Shikai in turn would be unable to get past blutz on its own and perhaps not be capable of causing enough damage in one go.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member BrunoGF's Avatar
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    Re: Which shinigami are best suited to fight Sternritters?

    I don't think any Quincy can regenerate - probably Kirge used some Lentz Stil technique to get his neck fixed. Or manipulated the spiritrons to get a "first-aid" - something that makes sense since they are on Hueco Mundo - Soul Society, their bodies are made of spiritual particles now.

    Regarding the topic, I think Yamamoto, Shunsui, Hirako, Ukitake, Mayuri and Unohana will be okay. I'm afraid of the rest, including Kenpach - his lust for enjoying the battle may lead to his defeat agains Buckbeard.

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