Doujinshi: selling, buying, scanning?

[pikanchi]

I hope I posted this in the right section! I wasn't sure if a discussion on doujinshi would be off-topic if I posted it in the Otaku Cafe forum, so I chose Culture to be on the safe side.


Here's the background story: I've been scanning some of the doujinshi in my collection and thinking about scanlating some of them myself. I have actually scanlated a few in the past, but lately I've been mulling about the ethics of it all since doujinshi is an even greyer zone than the ongoing debate over manga scanlations.

So, I was wondering what your general thoughts are on doujinshi, particularly the following:

• The act of creating them in itself

  This mostly has to do with the circles and doujinka in Japan who create doujinshi. Do you consider it legal? Why do you think it's such a widespread and apparently accepted part of the Japanese/manga culture?

• The act of buying doujinshi

  By this, I'm mostly referring to purchasing through means other than directly from the creators. Most if not all circles insert pages declaring they do not wish for their works to be redistributed and/or sold/purchased elsewhere such as through internet auctions (ネットオークション禁); some of them even make requests for the reader to trash the doujinshi rather than resell if they don't want to keep it around anymore. On the other hand, not everyone can afford to fly to Japan just to attend doujinshi conventions such as Comiket (for which you also have to pay and register for) and buy directly from the circles. What are your thoughts on the circles and doujinka's stance on this?

• The act of scanning and/or scanlating doujinshi

  I'm most curious about this, especially as this site is based around translations primarily for the purposes of scanlating. Again, most if not all circles request that people do not redistribute (無断転載) or transcribe (無断転写) their works without permission, so this would also boil down to personal morals. Would you respect their wishes or share with people who otherwise will not get the chance to read or purchase their doujinshi? Do you consider the scanning/scanlating of doujinshi harmful to the circles and doujinka? If you do scanlate doujinshi, how likely do you think these creators will find out and what actions do you think they would or can take, if at all?

And just to throw a wrench into the mix, since I'm sure most of you were pondering those questions with the thought of animanga or otherwise fictional series and characters in mind:

What if the doujinshi in question are of real people?

Would that change your stance in any way? For example, if you had considered doujinshi illegal from the standpoint that they are derivatives of copyrighted characters and storylines, would they still be considered illegal if they're based off of real people?


Thanks a lot for humoring me, and I look forward to reading your thoughts! Feel free to talk about things I haven't touched on too.

[Teeba]

Severe TLR warning!!

First of all, I'm incredibly happy someone is discussing doujinshi on a manga/anime forum. The two go hand in hand and not many people think about it. Your post was excellently put together. It reminded me of a really awesome article on a foreigner's discovery and insight into doujinshi culture. Its a couple of years old but its very relevant to the topic of this thread: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/m...15-11/ff_manga

I think doujinshi is awesome. Its almost difficult for me to describe its intrinsic value without feeling emotional for it. I feel connected to other fans when I read it. And I don't even understand Japanese. I don't understand it at all, but when I look at doujinshi I feel connected to the person who made it, and to the whole fandom, really. The concept itself is great, as is fanfiction and fanart. Just by reading one, your mind is stimulated with things you didn't notice, or things you believed but wanted someone else to say. What makes doujinshi truly resonant with me, and otaku and fujoshi is that its in print. Its existence is very physical as oppose to fanfiction and fanart, which in my time has become more internet based. I would even say there's a difference between posting a fancomic online and publishing doujinshi.

I know doujinshi is a gray area in Japan, but the pros totally outweigh the cons in my opinion. Firstly, doujinka facilitate the popularity of a series or title which can be otherwise difficult to servey. Majin Tentai Nougami Neuro was a series that ran in Jump with above average success, but its fanbase and doujinshi circles were really strong. Even in Comiket 82 there were circles selling new Neuro doujinshi. Secondly, manga publishing houses often find new talent in people who write doujinshi. Their style and storytelling skills are on par with established mangaka. The most epitomous example is CLAMP. In the 80s they drew and sold Saint Seiya doujinshi before making it big with original titles. So it would be a loss for copyright holders and companies to crack down on something that clearly benefits them in more ways than one.

Because I don't know Japanese, I actually didn't know that about doujinka not wanting people to resell their work. Its understandable of course, because doujinshi are drawn and published for a specific time period. They can't stand on their own like a manga or anime can, so the reselling part makes sense. At the same time, there are bookshops in Japan that sell doujinshi alongside the manga that it parodies, so perhaps newer circles don't think like that anymore. I think its a bit old-fashioned to not want foreigners to buy them. In Genshiken, there are two American women who come to Japan to attend Comiket, and they buy multiple copies of doujinshi just so they can take it back for their friends to read. Even though Genshiken was published in the mid 2000s, there wasn't any negativity towards those characters (in fact one of them is quite popular in fandom!).

How ethical is it to scan and scanlate doujinshi? Its as ethical as scanning and scanlating manga, to be frank. I actually started buying doujinshi earlier this year through proxies, and its definitely worth it, even when its expensive. Because the manga that I'm into aren't popular titles, owning and reading doujinshi assures me that its popular enough. Its kind of silly, but when a manga doesn't have much fanfiction or fandiscussion going for it, doujinshi fills the gap for me, even if I can't understand it. On tumblr there's a blog of a very dedicated Gintama fan, and she often posts pages from the scanlations, but sometimes she posts doujinshi scans too. Its weird to see the two side by side, one post after the other, but to the blogger the doujinshi was validating things she liked about Gintama. So because I understand that, I don't think scanlating doujinshi is that bad. Its when people start taking it for granted that you question how much knowledge has been lost in the process of its translation.

I'm glad you posted this, because I've been struggling with ways of sharing my doujinshi too. How were you planning on going about this? When did you get into doujinshi?

[pikanchi]

Thank you for replying, and with such a long thoughtful response at that! I was starting to give up hope that anyone would respond to this thread...

That link you gave is really great and definitely helps answer some of my questions. I also love what you said about the connection to other fans-- the thing with doujinshi is that I never really get the feeling that people are only in it for the money. Above all else, they're fans first and foremost, and it's precisely because they're such big fans that they're going above and beyond the "duties" of a normal fan to produce these works. I read a very interesting blog article the other day about how much money doujinka actually earn from their sales at Comiket, and I highly recommend it for anyone interested in statistics and numbers:

http://symposium.transformativeworks...-from-comiket/

The reason why I brought this article up is because of the fact that most doujinka either don't earn very much from selling their doujinshi or they actually lose money from all the costs (supplies, printing, travel/lodging, etc.). There was also this particular tidbit that I thought was very telling of their motivations despite essentially losing money through what they do:

These results emphasize how much doujin fandom is about being fannish, not about making a profit. The vast majority of creators will never get close to earning back even their printing costs, and they know it. When asked about what they liked the most about Comiket, “I can show my work to other people” was the top answer (41,5%), followed by “there’s a festival atmosphere” (21,3%) and “I can meet friends and acquaintances that I normally can’t meet” (13,1). Only 4,2% of circles chose “I can sell a lot of doujinshi there” as Comiket’s primary attraction.

After reading that article, and now the Wired one you linked, it really makes it clear for me that selling doujinshi isn't simply about profit-- and not only that, now I have some actual numbers as confirmation. Even though it's technically not legal, it helps the industry indirectly (as with the examples you pointed out), and it's basically another way of participating in fandom. And I haven't even touched on how much I admire the incredible talent many of them have to actually create these works!

I'm glad you posted this, because I've been struggling with ways of sharing my doujinshi too. How were you planning on going about this? When did you get into doujinshi?

Hmm, I got into doujinshi probably... around late 2007? I was introduced to it when a friend of mine lived in Japan for a few months as part of a school exchange, but it wasn't until another friend visited Japan for a vacation and brought me back a few as a present that I was officially hooked. I think that's the case for many people out there too, though given that this is the age of the Internet there's probably way more out there who were first exposed to doujinshi through scanned copies available online.

I'm primarily in the Jpop fandom (Arashi to be specific), so most of my doujinshi are of real people (hence my question at the end of my post!). I think with real people, there's definitely an added sense of paranoia that's missing from circles who focus on mainly fictional characters and pairings. All the real people doujinshi from my collection not only stress that they don't want their works to be redistributed or sold online, they also have very clear warnings about not showing their work to anyone related to the agency (J禁) or anyone who isn't a fan (P禁).

I have a locked community on Livejournal where I post my scanlations, and I share it with a couple of friends who post raws from their own collections. We keep it very low-key because we know we're basically sharing without permission from the circles/doujinka, but we want to share precisely because we love their works and want others to enjoy them as much as we do, especially since not everyone can have access to them or can understand Japanese. I used to advertise it elsewhere when I first opened it, but reposting outside of the community became an issue and I closed it down for a long while. Nowadays, it only grows by word of mouth among the members to their friends or people who happen to stumble across it through the magic of Google, so the growth is a lot slower but at the same time, it's a lot easier to manage.

Unlike your typical community where people only put up a cover, summary and a download link, I basically turned it into a mini online library for people to pop by and read when the mood strikes. I don't provide download links for any of my scanlations-- instead, I upload the individual pages to an imagehost like Photobucket and leave people to click on the thumbnails to read online. It's not only a good deterrent for the lazier people who want to reupload (since they'd have to right click and save one by one), it's also great for people who don't feel like going through the hassle of downloading, unzipping, and opening just to read.

I currently have the masterlist of all of my releases up on the community profile of the pairings and titles and I'm considering removing it entirely, maybe move it into a new locked entry or something, since it defeats the purpose of trying to be discreet when I have a whole list of what can be found in the community right out in the open. I know I sound pretty paranoid myself with all the lengths I'm going through to hush up what I'm doing, but there's actually been a past incident where another girl had also opened her own Arashi doujinshi scans community and was contacted by one of the artists who drew something she had shared and asked her to take it down. She ended up closing her community after that. It was that incident that made me realise just how "close" these doujinka really are to us, if that makes sense... even though us international fans are scattered all across the world, we're still essentially fans in the same fandom and easily connected over the Internet.

There's also, I think, a big difference between scanning manga and scanning doujinshi. When the bigwigs want their licensed manga series taken down, they're primarily concerned with monetary losses-- by downloading the scans for free, people aren't buying the real thing, etc. etc. On the other hand, I think doujinka have very different reasons for it. Even though I'm making absolutely zero money off of scanlating doujinshi, I can't blame these doujinka for wanting their works taken down. For them, losing money isn't an issue more often than not, so it's not that they're concerned about financial harm; as you saw from that article I linked, most of them are already losing money. I try to put myself in their shoes and think about how I would feel if someone took my translations and either reposted or translated them into another language without telling me. They're doing it for the same reason I'm scanlating my doujinshi - so that it can be shared with more people who can enjoy something they can't read or can't get access to - but it's still a personal work at the end of the day, and it would be upsetting to know that people were blatantly ignoring simple rules.

Gah, I think I'm losing my train of thought here... I'll come back if I have anything else to add, and thanks again for responding to my questions!!

[Teeba]

After reading that article, and now the Wired one you linked, it really makes it clear for me that selling doujinshi isn't simply about profit-- and not only that, now I have some actual numbers as confirmation. Even though it's technically not legal, it helps the industry indirectly (as with the examples you pointed out), and it's basically another way of participating in fandom. And I haven't even touched on how much I admire the incredible talent many of them have to actually create these works!

Same. Doujinka just want to spread their love for something, and I feel with fanwork it always comes down to that: its created with love. To me it doesn't matter whether its GL, NL, BL, or hentai, doujinshi is an important part of fandom that deserves a lot more respect than fans are willing to give it credit for. Its so easy for someone to classify doujinshi as a kind of sell-out, when its obviously not.

I'm primarily in the Jpop fandom (Arashi to be specific), so most of my doujinshi are of real people (hence my question at the end of my post!). I think with real people, there's definitely an added sense of paranoia that's missing from circles who focus on mainly fictional characters and pairings. All the real people doujinshi from my collection not only stress that they don't want their works to be redistributed or sold online, they also have very clear warnings about not showing their work to anyone related to the agency (J禁) or anyone who isn't a fan (P禁).

Oh, that's really interesting! I know of real-people doujinshi, but I am such a n00b at being a fujoshi and buying doujinshi, I often feel I have not yet reached that level, LOL. I did not even ship yaoi seriously until about year ago, and I bought my first BL doujinshi a few months ago. I am definitely a greenhorn, but I really want to know more and become more confident in my fujoshiness. Definitely if the doujinshi is about living, breathing people, it makes sense the doujinka do not want non-fans reading and flipping out about it. I can respect and understand their worries a lot more.

Do you buy other kinds of doujinshi? Would you say doujinshi gives you something different than just fanart, or fanfiction, or fan discussion? I don't know much about the jpop/jrock fandom, so I'm curious how doujinshi plays a part in it. I only know manga.

tl;dr about how I share my doujinshi!

I see. You have a really elaborate set-up, you have to give yourself credit for that. I think what you're doing is good enough--and sometimes you cannot control what other people do with your service. I suppose in the pre-internet age people would xerox doujinshi to share them with one another.

They're doing it for the same reason I'm scanlating my doujinshi - so that it can be shared with more people who can enjoy something they can't read or can't get access to - but it's still a personal work at the end of the day, and it would be upsetting to know that people were blatantly ignoring simple rules.

Gah, I think I'm losing my train of thought here... I'll come back if I have anything else to add, and thanks again for responding to my questions!!

I guess I've never been very possessive about my work, both in terms of art or design. So if I drew BL fanart, and someone then immediately posted it on tumblr with credit, I don't think I'd mind. With doujinshi I always thought it was the exclusivitiy of it -- you can only obtain it a certain way, and by scanning it and posting it online for all to see you are negating that purpose. But I understand your point, and obviously you should follow the artist's intention as much as possible.

Honestly, I enjoy talking to you about doujinshi, and there are very few people who would be willing to discuss it, let alone want to learn about it. I posted on my personal blog about my latest BL purchases, and someone commented how awful it was because it was BL and not what they wanted. They were disturbed by it, which unfortunately happens a lot.

[pikanchi]

Its so easy for someone to classify doujinshi as a kind of sell-out, when its obviously not.

I guess for some people, they might see it on par with fansubbers and scanlators who try to charge for their fansubs/scanlations? They're all fanworks and thus should be free for all to enjoy, especially since we don't own the storylines or characters? That's the closest thing I can think of, though I honestly think it shouldn't be considered the same-- after all, it costs nothing to release a fansub or scanlations because it's all digital, whereas doujinshi are printed on actual paper and ink.

Oh, that's really interesting! I know of real-people doujinshi, but I am such a n00b at being a fujoshi and buying doujinshi, I often feel I have not yet reached that level, LOL. I did not even ship yaoi seriously until about year ago, and I bought my first BL doujinshi a few months ago. I am definitely a greenhorn, but I really want to know more and become more confident in my fujoshiness. Definitely if the doujinshi is about living, breathing people, it makes sense the doujinka do not want non-fans reading and flipping out about it. I can respect and understand their worries a lot more.

Do you buy other kinds of doujinshi? Would you say doujinshi gives you something different than just fanart, or fanfiction, or fan discussion? I don't know much about the jpop/jrock fandom, so I'm curious how doujinshi plays a part in it. I only know manga.

I do have a handful of YYH doujinshi, but most of my money ended up going towards jpop that I don't have anywhere near as many as I'd like, so in that regard I'm kind of like you-- very much clueless when it comes to other kinds of doujinshi. I think I love it for the fact that it's kind of like the marriage of fanart and fanfic together? Some doujinka have breathtaking styles, and some are really on-point with their characterisations so as you're flipping through you keep thinking "I can totally see them doing this!". To me, it's already hard enough for people to draw a single fanart; throw in pacing, world building, characterisation, etc. and I'm just coloured impressed all the time. Some of the circles have been around for years too, so not only can I see the progress of their art over time, there's also a sense of closeness whenever I read their rambling authors' notes.

But it's funny that you mentioned wanting to know how doujinshi plays a part in jpop/jrock fandom, because it doesn't really at all (at least, not at the international level). I rarely see doujinshi mentioned or shared in jpop fandoms online, but the few that I've shared publicly had favourable responses and I think also helped stir up more interest in real life doujinshi as a result. In Japan, I think it's treated like the way they treat fanfiction there-- secretive and hushed up. Since they're from the same country and can read and understand the language, fanfiction sites are incredibly strict with their password hints and applications to ensure that only fans (both of the fandom in question and yaoi) can get through. So the doujinka that creates real life doujinshi also carry some of that over with their heightened paranoia. You can buy their doujinshi in Mandarake or directly from conventions and events, but I do know that most of the events (apart from Comiket, which is pretty much infamous) aren't advertised openly and require a bit of hoop jumping to even find out where and when they will be held.

I guess I've never been very possessive about my work, both in terms of art or design. So if I drew BL fanart, and someone then immediately posted it on tumblr with credit, I don't think I'd mind. With doujinshi I always thought it was the exclusivitiy of it -- you can only obtain it a certain way, and by scanning it and posting it online for all to see you are negating that purpose. But I understand your point, and obviously you should follow the artist's intention as much as possible.

Now that you mention it, it's possible that could be another factor? I never really thought about it that way, but it is true that doujinshi is very hard to obtain because there's very limited and specific ways to go about it. I also think there's a bit of conformity/herd mentality going on though, where people adopt the same rules and attitudes because everyone else is doing it. If I was a new doujinka trying to get started, I'd be checking the rules at the back of other people's doujinshi to help guide me on what I should specify too.

Honestly, I enjoy talking to you about doujinshi, and there are very few people who would be willing to discuss it, let alone want to learn about it. I posted on my personal blog about my latest BL purchases, and someone commented how awful it was because it was BL and not what they wanted. They were disturbed by it, which unfortunately happens a lot.

I really like this conversation about doujinshi too! I wasn't sure where I could go with my questions so I'm really glad I took the plunge and asked here. And I completely understand what you mean about the BL thing. You should try taking a peek at some of the RPF/RPS debates that flare up now and then-- while I can see where both sides are coming from, sometimes the arguments that get thrown around can be really silly and unfortunate.

Before I forget, what kind of doujinshi do you buy? Do you prefer certain pairing orders (like character A x B but not B x A)? I've seen people in my fandom expressing annoyance at fanfic writers who insist on specifying the order with the seme's name going first, and likewise people who complain about writers who make no specifications at all because it results in them being disappointed when they start reading and realise it's not the order they like. I for one find the specific pairing order really useful when I'm buying doujinshi because I do have preferences and since Mandarake seals all doujinshi they sell, it can be a bit of a crapshoot when I'm buying.

[Teeba]

I guess for some people, they might see it on par with fansubbers and scanlators who try to charge for their fansubs/scanlations? They're all fanworks and thus should be free for all to enjoy, especially since we don't own the storylines or characters? That's the closest thing I can think of, though I honestly think it shouldn't be considered the same-- after all, it costs nothing to release a fansub or scanlations because it's all digital, whereas doujinshi are printed on actual paper and ink.

Exactly. Scanlators keep the work to themselves, but with printing you have to pay for the cost to do it. It works completely differently. Plus, pricing the doujinshi makes a hell of a lot more sense than say, charging for admission to enter the comic market. Besides, a lot of doujinshi is explicit, so by having a pricetag ensures the person paying for it is being somewhat responsible. I also think there is a certain preciousness to a doujinshi being bought than a doujinshi being distributed for free. The formality adds to the experience.

I do have a handful of YYH doujinshi, but most of my money ended up going towards jpop that I don't have anywhere near as many as I'd like, so in that regard I'm kind of like you-- very much clueless when it comes to other kinds of doujinshi. I think I love it for the fact that it's kind of like the marriage of fanart and fanfic together? Some doujinka have breathtaking styles, and some are really on-point with their characterisations so as you're flipping through you keep thinking "I can totally see them doing this!". To me, it's already hard enough for people to draw a single fanart; throw in pacing, world building, characterisation, etc. and I'm just coloured impressed all the time. Some of the circles have been around for years too, so not only can I see the progress of their art over time, there's also a sense of closeness whenever I read their rambling authors' notes.

We can be clueless together, yay! I am still learning what other kind of doujinshi there are, too. I was reading Genshiken, which is about otaku and fujoshi, and the official translation of doujinshi given is "fanzine". I thought this was odd, because doujinshi is most often translated as "fan novel" or "fanbook". No other reference was given. Then by chance, I was reading an interview with Ken Akamatsu in which he brings up doujinshi and fanculture. It turns out the term "doujinshi" does mean fanzine, because it meant there were multiple doujinka publishing one book, together. Now a day the term has evolved to be a blanket word for both collaborations or the more popular single-authored "koujinshi". Neat, huh?

But it's funny that you mentioned wanting to know how doujinshi plays a part in jpop/jrock fandom, because it doesn't really at all (at least, not at the international level). I rarely see doujinshi mentioned or shared in jpop fandoms online, but the few that I've shared publicly had favourable responses and I think also helped stir up more interest in real life doujinshi as a result. In Japan, I think it's treated like the way they treat fanfiction there-- secretive and hushed up.

This makes sense to me, but I actually thought they might be more lax because the transition from physical, 3D people to 2D fancomic would render most fans unable to recognize them in the first place. Its not like shonen parodies, where the integrity of the mangaka's art is sometimes kept, even if the doujinka is drawing a complete BL fantasy. I posted some doujinshi preview pages (the ones that are available on C-Queen) on MH for fun, and people could instantly tell which series it was parodying.

I'm really grateful for proxies for this reason, but I also feel conflicted by it too. I admire the intimacy of meet-ups and doujinshi events. The internet has a tendency to make everything about fandom a public affair, and sometimes some things don't need to be aired so loudly. Like you say, doujinshi really doesn't play that big of a role in the international/non-Japanese fandom. I guess a lot of Japanese fans and doujinka must feel weird to know something is popular in another country, that has its own ideas dissimilar to their own. Of course, I can't understand Japanese, so I miss out. xD

Now that you mention it, it's possible that could be another factor? I never really thought about it that way, but it is true that doujinshi is very hard to obtain because there's very limited and specific ways to go about it. I also think there's a bit of conformity/herd mentality going on though, where people adopt the same rules and attitudes because everyone else is doing it. If I was a new doujinka trying to get started, I'd be checking the rules at the back of other people's doujinshi to help guide me on what I should specify too.

The way you say it, it sounds like screenplay-writing. A screenplay writer must never do something that reveals they are a novice. If its the first time they submit a screenplay, it has to be formatted exactly like all the others. Of course, you could say that about a lot of things, but that kind of logic doesn't apply to manga. But to doujinshi, I can see the pressure in looking like you know what you're doing. And heck, adhering to tradition and being stubborn about change is exactly the kind of problem published manga is struggling with too.

I really like this conversation about doujinshi too! I wasn't sure where I could go with my questions so I'm really glad I took the plunge and asked here. And I completely understand what you mean about the BL thing. You should try taking a peek at some of the RPF/RPS debates that flare up now and then-- while I can see where both sides are coming from, sometimes the arguments that get thrown around can be really silly and unfortunate.

I didn't even know RPF/RPS existed, though if you think about it its something we've done since the beginning of time, we've just always called it matchmaking. Case in point: you see any two people together and you start wondering if they are a couple, or if they are sibling or what not. Heck, if you stay in a forum long enough you start shipping certain members together. I used to be part of a forum where we would have mock!shipwars between which forum couple we liked the best. The only problem with shipping I feel is when you take it too seriously, and that isn't something tied to yaoi ships or RP ships only -- all it takes is one tinhat shipper in any fandom to ruin the fun and give fandom a bad name.

Before I forget, what kind of doujinshi do you buy? Do you prefer certain pairing orders (like character A x B but not B x A)?...I for one find the specific pairing order really useful when I'm buying doujinshi because I do have preferences and since Mandarake seals all doujinshi they sell, it can be a bit of a crapshoot when I'm buying.

Ahahahaha, I feel so embarrassed now. xD I don't know if I have a preference yet, because as of now I buy both A x B and B x A doujinshi. Initially I was put off by the idea of such preferences, but I then I realized everything in fandom is about preferences. If I knew how to speak Japanese I'd definitely be more picky about the ones that I buy. But since, I don't, I just pretend the dialogue is meaningful and completely adheres to my own preferences. As of now, I buy Beelzebub doujinshi, and I have *one* D.Gray-man doujinshi which is an anomaly because its the only hetero one I have.

I started buying doujinshi out of my frustration that no one I knew shipped the same thing I did. Bizarrely enough, even when I have met people who do, its usually on anon imageboards here and there. And on bigger English websites, people dismiss it as crack anyway. So I kind of feel I'm stuck in the same position as you: doujinshi and shipping isn't a big part of my fandom at all, but to me its partly why I'm here in the first place. Don't you ever feel that way about doujinshi? Is it the doujinshi that changes your view on canon, or does the doujinshi validate what you already believe in? Its kind of a chicken-and-the-egg question.

[Asarii]

One question I have regarding doujinshi is whether or not the doujinkas credit the mangaka or the publisher. A lot of fan fiction authors add a disclaimer in the introduction so I'm wondering if doujinshi follow a similar policy?

Even though I enjoy reading doujinshi and admire the dedication that goes into creating it, my morals are against making profit out of something that has been copyrighted by another individual. However, I'll be more lax about the selling of doujinshi if the doujinka make sure to give credit where it is due.

[Teeba]

Interesting point! But I'd say copyright law works differently in Japan, or rather their attitude towards it is different. In English speaking fandoms the emphasis on copyrighting is much more prominent. But in Japanese fandom, I don't think that's the case. All the doujinshi I have, both digitally and physically, have varying ways of showing the doujinshi is a parody of an existing work. Some of them have a huge disclaimer page, others have it written really small at the bottom. A lot of them don't have anything, and just write "Magi fanbook 08" or "D.Gray-man fanbook" or "Beelzebub fanbook" both on the inside and on the cover. There is no "standard" disclaimer for the Japanese fandom as there is for English-speaking fanwork. I think you're meant to understand the moment you look at it that its not original, but a parody.

But I doubt people make an actual profit off of doujinshi. I think pikanchi linked to an article as well -- only 4.2% of doujinshi circles are in it to make money. The rest charge for the doujinshi because they need to cover the cost of having it printed in the first place. And even the amount that they print -- maybe maximum 1000 or 2000 copies, is nothing compared to how many copies get printed of the original manga itself. Another thing to take into consideration is that doujinshi rarely exists for a manga series that hasn't obtained some kind of popularity already. Lets look at Magi. Magi has 424 circles participating in C83 this December. While this number seems large, each circle has to pay for the printing cost themselves, which is different than when Shogakukan pays for Magi to be printed and sold in commercial manga shops. Magi alone will profit by people buying all the stock that's available, but a Magi circle will only make money if someone buys their specific doujinshi. The profit may feel good -- that you created something and sold it to people -- but its more like breaking even.

How did you get into doujinshi, Asarii? And how would you rate the enjoyment as oppose to reading fanfiction?

[Asarii]

Interesting point! But I'd say copyright law works differently in Japan, or rather their attitude towards it is different. In English speaking fandoms the emphasis on copyrighting is much more prominent. But in Japanese fandom, I don't think that's the case. All the doujinshi I have, both digitally and physically, have varying ways of showing the doujinshi is a parody of an existing work. Some of them have a huge disclaimer page, others have it written really small at the bottom. A lot of them don't have anything, and just write "Magi fanbook 08" or "D.Gray-man fanbook" or "Beelzebub fanbook" both on the inside and on the cover. There is no "standard" disclaimer for the Japanese fandom as there is for English-speaking fanwork. I think you're meant to understand the moment you look at it that its not original, but a parody.

I'd have to say that Japanese copyright laws confuse me a lot because it seems really fluid. On one hand they can be pretty strict such as deleting any music videos/lyric videos that are uploaded on Youtube, and on the other hand they can be pretty lax such as the publishers/mangaka not really caring about doujinshi. I remember there was the whole "Gene Simmons' son plagiarizing Bleach" scandal a few years ago, and the reaction from Kubo was ambivalent- he just didn't care!

As you say though, the fact that the doujinshi is a parody might be why they don't need to add disclaimers. However, it would be nice if they did give credit or at least give thanks to the mangaka for creating the characters.

But I doubt people make an actual profit off of doujinshi. I think pikanchi linked to an article as well -- only 4.2% of doujinshi circles are in it to make money. The rest charge for the doujinshi because they need to cover the cost of having it printed in the first place. And even the amount that they print -- maybe maximum 1000 or 2000 copies, is nothing compared to how many copies get printed of the original manga itself. Another thing to take into consideration is that doujinshi rarely exists for a manga series that hasn't obtained some kind of popularity already. Lets look at Magi. Magi has 424 circles participating in C83 this December. While this number seems large, each circle has to pay for the printing cost themselves, which is different than when Shogakukan pays for Magi to be printed and sold in commercial manga shops. Magi alone will profit by people buying all the stock that's available, but a Magi circle will only make money if someone buys their specific doujinshi. The profit may feel good -- that you created something and sold it to people -- but its more like breaking even.

Whether they're earning 100 or 1000 yen, they're still getting money. I understand that it's expensive to purchase materials and getting the documents published, but a lot of hobbies tend to cost money. Those costs could easily be covered by jobs or saving up a couple of dollars/yens. I've seen a lot of fan comics posted online on personal websites and pixiv so I'm wondering why many don't take that root instead.

It's a mixed situation: I love and admire the work that goes into doujinshi, but I feel uncomfortable about the monetary aspect that's attached to it. Despite saying that, however, I'm completely fine if someone created their own manga with their own characters and sold it at a convention.

How did you get into doujinshi, Asarii? And how would you rate the enjoyment as oppose to reading fanfiction?

I don't remember actually! *tries to remember* I'm pretty sure the first doujinshi I encountered was a Reborn one; considering the demographic makeup of the fandom, it's easy to find a lot of doujinshi on it.

For some reason I love reading doujinshi that are very dark in theme. I enjoy reading comical works as well, but it's usually the angst-filled ones that get me thinking about the characters or the original manga from a different perspective.

Doujinshi is harder to come by online than fanfiction so it's a special treat when I come across something that I especially like, and it's even better when it's the raw version. Nevertheless even if it's scanlated, there's still the same vibe that is conveyed from the artwork. My enjoyment scale goes like this: Japanese fan fiction* > doujinshi (scanlated and non-scanlated) > English fan fiction.

*Lately it's this and Niconico fan videos that I look to when I'm obsessed about something.

[Doraku]

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/1...3&viewall=true

I'm not really familiar with Doujinshi and all about the technical details about it, but after reading the aforementioned article, somehow I respect Doujin makers a little more. There is even a Doujin magazine for game which is almost not exist anymore! that's obviously requires huge effort and dedication. I wish I could have one of those retro-game Doujin, even though probably I'm going to use it merely for collective purpose. It's cool.

Also speaking about Japanese copyright law in general, I believe that Japanese copyright are tend to be stricter when it comes to cross-borders enforcement, but not in domestic enforcement. Between 1993-2006, the total number of IP cases accepted in the first instance court is only 25%, a small number considering that the amount of IP cases received by the court all over Japan is roughly around 600-700 cases/year.

[Asarii]

Thanks for the article, Doraku!

Usually doujinshi are attributed to fan-made manga, but it's also worth noting that there are other forms of "doujin" as well. There's a fansite I go to that posts excerpts of their doujin novels on top of posting fan fiction which are usually shorter in length.