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Thread: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

  1. #1
    Mangahelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ghostexiled's Avatar
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    The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    This is for anyone that wishes to debate their thoughts on how magic in Fairy Tail is used, attained, improved or even lost.

    This will also serve as a way for members to compare the magic usage of characters to other characters.

    Examples would be:

    "Mirajana is stronger than Gray because of..." or "Gray is better for fighting than Mirajana because..."

    "One type of spell has a power limit because..." or "Every spell can continue to become stronger because..."

    "Training is better than 2nd container because..." or "Training and 2nd container equal the same because..."

    DO NOT use this thread to bash or flame characters... such posts will be deleted and depending on the wording of the post made, the member will receive a warning or worse.

    Thanks and play nice!
    Last edited by ghostexiled; August 11, 2012 at 04:00 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Edelheld's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Olho07 View Post
    The case is: she have total control over her power now, she fights whenever she wants.
    I honestly don't know why it is difficult to see this.
    Is different from when she fought the Freed and she went into a State of fury.
    Now in the tournament, she was calm, joyful, having a modeling contest with her rival and poofff Satan Soul being released.
    And what exactly made you believe that she has total control over her power now? She uses it freely but that doesn't mean she can use it good enough to return to her peak power. She is strong but not as strong as she was once before. You may put your hopes on 3 months of training but that's just a speculation for now.
    I honestly don't know why it is difficult to see that now Mira is as strong as Gray. She exceeds him in offense and speed(and boobies) and loses in everything else.
    As they both progress they will be on roughly same power level from now on.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Well... this is endless.

    No matter how much debate, I will not change my view that her power has not abated, just was no longer able to control it. And she got stronger with the workout. The gap between the two has not decreased.

    And you always will find that Gray grew enough that his spells it take effect in Mirajane.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    There's absolutely no reason to assume that Mira's not as strong as she once was. No reason at all. She suffered some trauma and now she's fairy tail's resident hippy. But that's it. The only lasting effect of her trauma was her change in personality. Has there been anything that suggests that it physically weakened her to this day? Some things are just meant to be taken at face value. We were shown that she's recovered her magical power but people are making it a bigger deal than even Mashima himself made it. The fight with Fried was meant to signify the return of her powers and ever since then, we've had her act as one of the S-class mages that were meant to stop S-class potentials from advancing in the test, and Makarov himself included her in the dream team that he thought would guarantee fairy tail a win in the great magic games.

    Honestly, the Gray vs Mirajane comparison is a joke. I read stuff like, 'Gray wins because duh, he's more versatile', as if versatility wins fights by default or something. We already have offence oriented mages like Natsu and Laxus who can overwhelm their opponents with sheer magical power. Mirajane was and still is a mage as powerful as Erza, only not as blessed with plot significance.
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member ILikeSleeping's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    I shall now attempt (and fail) to sort out the power levels of some of the characters in Fairy Tail:

    So....That Ichiya...am I the only one still confused as to how strong he is? The guy couldn't even run a race without going down from exhaustion yet once he got serious he took down Bacchus and the other guy in just one punch. Bacchus is supposed to be as strong as Erza. And if Erza is at the level of the Ten Holy Saints, that easily puts Ichiya at the top right next to Makarov or at least Gildartz. I guess Ichiya is supposed to be the strongest person in Blue Pegasus, so his level of power would only make sense because if he was any weaker, then there would be no way for Blue Pegasus to be one of the top guilds...

    And also, assuming that the levels of the top 5 Sabertooth members are relatively consistent and being that wasn't it said that Sting and Rogue were the most powerful of the five since they were the Twin Dragons and all. If Orga was able to get above a 3000 in the MPF, then both Sting and Rogue would be about the same level at least right? Okay so if Natsu and Gajeel were practically mopping the floor with those two without even trying, that would put Natsu and Gajeel several levels above them. I would gander to say that currently, Natsu and Gajeel are 2-3 times as powerful as those 2. This would put them at the level of Jura who got above an 8000 at the MPF. And if Makarov remarked that Jura now rivaled Gildartz in power, this would technically put Natsu and Gajeel right at Gildartz's level.

    Now assuming that, Erza and Laxus (Or at least Laxus) is stronger than either Natsu or Gajeel, this would put Laxus above Gildartz...Making Laxus the most powerful person in the guild next to Makarov.

    Now if Laxus was easily able to manhandle the 5 top members of Raven Tail including his own father, this puts the entirety of Raven Tail's main fighting force at about........................Max's level......Since he's about as powerful as pre-second origin Natsu.

    Now if Ichiya is above Bacchus who Erza even admitted is at her level, and she herself is at least a bit above Natsu (Speculation) and is under Laxus. And the relative ease that Ichiya had when taking down Bacchus, I have to say that this brings Ichiya above Laxus. Seeing as how Laxus would need to be also be able to take down Erza in one punch (which I definitely can't see happening) in order to be on par with Ichiya. This definitely puts Ichiya at or perhaps even above Makarov.

    Conclusion: WTF powerlevels.

    Conclusion #2: Ichiya is the most OP person in Fairy Tail

    Conclusion #3: Ichiya vs. Acnologia GOGOGO
    Last edited by ILikeSleeping; August 13, 2012 at 01:35 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Edelheld's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Olho07 View Post
    ...
    No matter how much debate, I will not change my view that her power has not abated, just was no longer able to control it. And she got stronger with the workout. The gap between the two has not decreased.
    ...
    And when exactly she got full control over it? Fighting Fried in crazy mode is "able to control" for you? Or when she was knocked out by a single punch fighting Elfman and Eva is "able to control" for you? Or when fighting Azuma she did absolutely no harm to him is "able to control" for you? Your view makes her a loser even at maximum power and full control. At least, definitely weaker than Gray(who won Ultear, btw). Does her powers suck so hard? With those lame powers she got s-class? I definitely hope it's not her full power and she will progress very fast.
    And if you actually meant that she regained her full control in her 3 months of training then 1) what exactly in manga made you believe so?; and 2) Gray had few years to catch up with her power level.
    You say it's endless but I hope you still got some new information and saw Mira in some new light so it all was fruitful =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    1)There's absolutely no reason to assume that Mira's not as strong as she once was. No reason at all.
    2) Has there been anything that suggests that it physically weakened her to this day? Some things are just meant to be taken at face value.
    3) The fight with Fried was meant to signify the return of her powers and ever since then, we've had her act as one of the S-class mages...
    4) and Makarov himself included her in the dream team that he thought would guarantee fairy tail a win in the great magic games.
    5) Honestly, the Gray vs Mirajane comparison is a joke. I read stuff like, 'Gray wins because duh, he's more versatile', as if versatility wins fights by default or something. We already have offence oriented mages like Natsu and Laxus who can overwhelm their opponents with sheer magical power. Mirajane was and still is a mage as powerful as Erza, only not as blessed with plot significance.
    1) And there's absolutely no reason to assume that Mira's as strong as she once was. No reason at all. Just your wishful thinking.
    2) I answered on that to Olho07 above.
    3) The fight with Fried is her nightmare come true. We were shown the strength and terror of her power. I already answered above on her power level.
    4) In English translation it was like "Mira is a nice choice, too".
    5) Honestly, the Gray vs Mirajane comparison is a joke. I read stuff like "Mira will mop the floor with Gray", "Mira is a s-class mage", "Mira was Erza's rival", as if her past self somehow is absolutely the same as her present self. Even if Erza had YEARS to overpower Mira you still say that Mira is as strong as Erza. It's just ridiculous how you overpower Mira. You ignore that she loses and try to justify your wishful thinking with Mira's "plot insignificance" while manga is the only true source of information unlike people's assumptions.
    Of course, in my opinion they are very close in power level now, Gray wins only thanks to the Mira's lack of will to fight(mostly) and better recent battle and team-up experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILikeSleeping View Post
    I shall now attempt (and fail) to sort out the power levels of some of the characters in Fairy Tail:
    ...
    Conclusion: WTF powerlevels.

    Conclusion #2: Ichiya is the most OP person in Fairy Tail

    Conclusion #3: Ichiya vs. Acnologia GOGOGO
    Wild
    You have 3 weak spots:
    1) MPF is useful only as a measure of magical power. But that's not only thing needed to be victorious.
    2) Bacchus was on par with Erza many years ago. Since then she progressed and Bacchus being a drunkard he is definitely only regressed.
    ALCOHOL IS BAD FOR YOU, KIDS!!!
    3) Natsu and Gajeel being 2-3 times stronger than Orga is too much. It might be as well 1,5 times stronger with almost same result but that would mean that they are almost half as strong as Jura so it puts them way below Guildarts and Laxus and Ichiya falls in that category too =)

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Edelheld View Post
    And when exactly she got full control over it? Fighting Fried in crazy mode is "able to control" for you? Or when she was knocked out by a single punch fighting Elfman and Eva is "able to control" for you? Or when fighting Azuma she did absolutely no harm to him is "able to control" for you? Your view makes her a loser even at maximum power and full control. At least, definitely weaker than Gray(who won Ultear, btw). Does her powers suck so hard? With those lame powers she got s-class? I definitely hope it's not her full power and she will progress very fast.
    And if you actually meant that she regained her full control in her 3 months of training then 1) what exactly in manga made you believe so?; and 2) Gray had few years to catch up with her power level.
    You say it's endless but I hope you still got some new information and saw Mira in some new light so it all was fruitful =)
    The fact that she can transforms always
    1- Vs Fried = before Lisanna's return. Mirajane still with trauma.
    2- vs Elfman = Script needs. Mashima wanted Elfman and Eveegreen fighting Rustyrose
    3- vs Azuma = http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v26/c220/13.html http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v26/c220/16.html She spent the entire fight concerned about Lisanna and with little power.
    Even Erza almost lose to him.

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  12. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Edelheld View Post
    And when exactly she got full control over it?
    The question is why should we assume that she hasn't? Since Mira fought Fried, has Mashima once portrayed her as someone that still has trouble unleashing her power because of Lisanna's death? Wasn't Elfman also affected by the same thing? Funnily enough, once he released his power against the element 4 guy, he was since able to fully transform and use his full power. So why should it be different for Mirajane? Mashima has made it really simple for us. He doesn't overplay things like trauma unnecessarily, so stop making it more complicated than it is. He has no reason to make Mira weaker than she used to be. He used the fight against Fried to show that Mira no longer has a seal on her powers and has only reinforced that various times. He has never shown anything that contradicts what he showed in the fight against Fried which was that she's got her full powers back. Nonsense like she can't control it cannot be proved and only sounds like a desperate attempt to dump her with some unjustified weakness. Just call a spade a spade and take it how Mashima has shown it.

    Mashima does a fine job justifying Mira's losses himself. Mira lost to Elfman and Evergreen and it was later explained that she didn't lose in a battle of power; she simply got caught off guard. Mira just hasn't got the battle mentality that she used to have. It doesn't mean that she's physically weaker. We also found out just a few weeks ago that Mira has a stronger form than the one she used against Azuma, which means she wasn't using her full power against him and that can be explained by her simply being low on magical power as she said during the fight. That form is one that Erza and Laxus respected and as far as consistency is concerned, only in an alternate universe would the Gray that we know be able to stand a hairs-breadth of a chance against it.

    Also, how Makarov said he would have picked Mira is irrelevant. It's just difference ways of saying the same thing and doesn't change anything at all. The point remains that Mashima made it a point to put Mira's name in a team that Makarov believes can guarantee them a win in the great magic games. If Mashima himself still wants us to see that Mira is a mage in the same class as Laxus and Gildarts, then your whole 'Mira can't control her powers and is now weaker than gray' is meaningless and you're just interpreting the manga in a way that Mashima didn't intend.
    Last edited by Freid; August 13, 2012 at 05:44 PM.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member crimsonlink310's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    I can't believe "Mira vs Gray is stronger" debate is still going on. I hope Mira fans realize that by the end of FT, Gray will have to become stronger as plot demands and will likely surpass Mira easily unless Mira suddenly becomes a major character. That or Mashima keeps power-ups consistent between guild members.

    Mira is more powerful right now as a character based on what I have seen but she won't fight in the tournament. Simple as that really.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Oh Edelheld, your own bias towards her is hurting your argumentation. Natsu once lost to Eisenwald, so what? He got over it and so has Mirajane over her problems. Nothing matters if we can see how she is right now. She got the strongest demon soul, likely the maximum of her own favourite magic type, she beat Jenny, she looks different from before, appears strong and confident, what is there to doubt that she is still freaking strong or stronger than in her previous prime?

    As an extra:
    Quote Originally Posted by Laxus
    Get it now? That's not someone you can piss off.
    I'm not gonna start any kind of comparison to Gray as that's senseless until we see him perform against Rufus. That one will shut up one side for real.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Man, is this still going on? I agree on Mira being powerful. I agree on Mira having regained her full raw strength. But I disagree on Mira having successfully recovered from her trauma which changed her personality from a wild and feared brat called "Demon" to a kind and caring bartender. That isn't fixed Lisanna's sudden return and by three months of intensive training, and raw strength is useless if one's still mentally broken. Mira's fight against Azuma clearly showed that when she said, that she was about to run out of power.

    Elf powering up is also based on Lisanna's death - instead of that being devastating to his self esteem he decided to become strong to protect Mira. Also a total change in his behaviour as he was the shy guy back in X778. And that Mira's power returned was based on the same principle that she almost snapped out because she was about to lose another sibling.

    Mirajane herself agreed on Gray being in the team instead of her while saying that with Gray it's the Strongest Team of Fairy Tail. Her words, and I guess if there was any doubt within the guild, then there would have been Mira in the team, and not Gray.

    It would have been a totally different thing if Lisanna was the victim instead of Lucy - then Mira would have had a much greater "payback" motivation than Gray had with his rivalty to Rufus which here simply adds perfectly onto the general rivalty of Fairy Tail to Saber Tooth.

    Natsu<>Sting, as stated by Sting/Rogue
    Gajeel<>Rogue, as stated by Sting/Rogue
    Luxus<>Orga, as stated by Orga and implied by Luxus
    Gray<>Rufus, as stated by Gray after being mocked by Rufus
    Elsa<>Minerva, as implied by them being the strongest female guild members

    Mirajane's rivalty in this tournament was first towards Elsa and then Jenny - and that was all cleared. And Mira doesn't have a counter part in Saber Tooth. (neither do Kana nor Wendy nor Lucy)

    The whole tournament plot and Mira's background story are built to have Gray in the team instead of Mira.
    Last edited by hoeru; August 14, 2012 at 09:37 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    As an extra:

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxus
    Get it now? That's not someone you can piss off.
    That's not really a remark on Mirajane's power. It's a remark on how she doesn't get mad, she gets even.

    Also, her defeating Jenny was essentially a non-feat from the standpoint that we have no idea how strong Jenny actually is in a fight, we just know that she was Mirajane's chief competition in the pin-up girl field.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Krono View Post
    That's not really a remark on Mirajane's power. It's a remark on how she doesn't get mad, she gets even.

    Also, her defeating Jenny was essentially a non-feat from the standpoint that we have no idea how strong Jenny actually is in a fight, we just know that she was Mirajane's chief competition in the pin-up girl field.
    How about: It's both? edit: For comedic purposes they could always be put in such situation e.g. Nami hurting the strongest crew members for idiocy. But thanks for ignoring the longer and more important part of the post.

    Even if she is not fully recovered, what from her appearance tells you that she's still so far back? Does Mirajane need to get back to her old ways and bring terror to her own guild to be accepted as fully recovered!? How about she is happy the way she is right now? She is a mix of both and that's good as it is, she doesn't need to change, she doesn't have to go through another round of support character development just to please you. Don't you read the manga and see happyness in her and her actions since they got back from the timeskip?
    Last edited by Schabrak; August 15, 2012 at 01:19 AM.
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    How about: It's both?
    No. Neither Laxus or Gajeel is the sort to easily be intimidated by power, and Mirajane's show of power there was as I said, effectively a non-feat. For all we know Jenny's weaker than Grimoire Heart fodder, and Lucy could easily do the same stomping Mirajane dealt out. What Laxus was talking about was what Mirajane called an inappropriate side to herself. Aka, Mirajane realizing that Jenny was trying to set her up for a humiliation, and rather than get angry and call her out on it, or refuse the bet, she accepted so that she could humiliate her opponent instead.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member WilliamK's Avatar
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    Re: The Use of Magic and All Things Related. (May contain spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Mirajane herself agreed on Gray being in the team instead of her while saying that with Gray it's the Strongest Team of Fairy Tail. Her words, and I guess if there was any doubt within the guild, then there would have been Mira in the team, and not Gray.
    That's not proof at all. She done the same thing back at the start of Fairy Tail saying a team of Natsu, Erza and Gray would be the strongest team in Fairy Tail, which we all know isn't exactly correct as we could now put her, Erza, Laxus and Mystogan in a team and they'd definitely be stronger than the former.

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