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View Poll Results: Does Baam really subscribe to FUG's ideals?

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  • Yes, he's a convert.

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  • No, they are just his means of getting to Rachel.

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Thread: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

  1. #1
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    Hello all, I'm playing around a good bit with how I do these reviews and this week I'm trying a basic review + points of interest. The idea being, that I do a pretty straight forward chapter review and then go more in depth a whatever things from the chapter I found to be of particular interest. Please let me if you like this style or not and if you want it changed or tweaked in any way.

    Yuri crushed all opposition in the princess popularity poll, by the way. This rabid Androssi fan does not approve but it is what it is.

    Oh and a slight correcting I've been confusing Yihwa's family name "Yeon" with her actual name "Yihwa". So if something I typed about her in the past seemed confusing that might have been why.

    Now Onto the Review!

    Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    For the first time, in what seems like a very long time, I recognize this guy.

    The Plot

    I'll just start off by saying I'm a big fan of what these 2 chapters did. For too long now every character in this new group has seemed like a pale imitation of characters in the old group but I feel like SUI finally building them up as more than that. Along with something I've been dying to see for quite a while, to be able to recognize Baam beneath his new persona of Viole.

    Yihwa played the biggest big part in making all of that happen. She strongly believes FUG is evil but can't seem to bring herself to hate Viole which is something that drives her to dig deeper into who Baam is trying to find some reason to hate him. In doing this she forces Viole to revealed some of the Baam side of himself that would have otherwise stayed hidden. When she was about to get herself killed at the hands of the FUG high ranker he wasn't cold or indifferent. For that instant he was the same character we all know and love, somebody just trying to keep people safe.

    When the group moved to Viole's house the focus left Viole and instead concentrated on the FUG people and Wangan; who I thought pulled his weight well in this these chapters (for once). In taking the lead at dealing with Hwa Ryun and Ha Jinsung he showed that he can do something the other characters in this group really can't. He can be outgoing and friendly in a less than ideal situation.

    Arkrapotor and Yihwa's conversation in the kitchen is something I felt showed the full potential of both characters as well as did and excellent job deepening my emotional connection to both of them.

    Hwa Ryun explaining to Wangan FUG's interest in Viole and just how close they had all come to death taught us a lot of things. Foremost among them is that FUG are NOT "the good guys". They are trying to use Baam as a weapon against Zahard, not help him, and they aren't being particularly subtle about it.

    The scene on the roof also planted the idea that FUG doesn't really understand Baam either. As he stares upward, anyone who knows him should be able to guess the reason without difficulty, but Ha Jinsung could not. That says something.

    The Art

    Really well drawn stuff these last two weeks. With great alternations in lighting and shading which did a great job of expressing the emotional tone SUI was trying to convey. The character that benefited the most from this was easily Yihwa. If you watch how her eyes were drawn and colored over the last 2 chapters it's hard not to be impressed by how expressive they were.

    The only thing I thought fell short was the panel with Wangan when he's told Ha Jinsung came here to essentially murder them. I don't feel like the yellow tinting really helped convey the surge of surprise and fear that it was meant to.

    Overall Rating

    These two chapters were simply great and took big steps toward building up the depth of character among this new group that I felt was missing as well as providing me with my first real opportunity to connect to Baam's character since he adopted the Viole persona.

    I rate the experience as a 5 out of 5 (my highest score)



    Points of Interest


    FUG and Baam

    Now that's the kind of initiative I like to see!


    Since Baam took on the name Viole as a member of FUG I’ve been confused as to “why”. Not why FUG would take him, which we learned this week, but why he would uttered the words.

    "I am Jyu Viole Grace, one of the slayer candidates of FUG. Zahard and their kin... I live for their death. That is why none of you can become my teammate. I am your enemy."

    I felt concerned for his character when I heard this, because if he actually means those words he’s an idiot and if he doesn’t he’s letting himself be used. Now, I don’t know what sort of character Zahard is because we haven’t met him yet, and by all indication neither has Baam, but I have a pretty good idea what kind of characters Ha Jinsung and Hwa Ryun are; and if he's working with people like that for any reason other than desperation he's quite simply and a moron.

    I want to believe Baam is not a moron, so I choose to think he's probably not a true believer in FUG but rather it is the place Hwa Ryun guided him to so that he could find Rachel once more; because that's what Hwa Ryun is a "guide". But it's mustn't be forgotten that the last person guided by Hwa Ryun was Rachel; and we all know how that turned out.

    I think, in the long term, Baam and FUG's relationship is destined to fall apart. Baam may defeat Zahard one day but I highly doubt that will be on FUG's terms but his rather his own.


    The "real" Yeon Yihwa

    Insecurity hiding behind a mask of arrogance.


    We learned the truth of her over the course of these chapters. Though she comes across as arrogant, as when she was talking with her friend, the reality is far from that. She knows she can’t control her powers and she’s afraid that if she acknowledges that weakness others will see her as she sees herself… a failure. As apparently has happened before.

    Her absolute contempt for FUG is still something of mystery but considering Ha Jinsung was there to murder them for no other reason than disapproving of Viole teaming with them I’d say her opinion that FUG is an evil organization is likely not unfounded.

    An interesting side effect of all this is going to be her relationship with Viole. Even though she seems to be working her way toward accepting that she needs him I doubt her suspicion of his FUG affiliation has abated in the slightest. Meaning she will likely keep digging until she finds out everything there is to know about "Baam the irregular", which is something I think is in everybody's best interests.


    Hon Arkraptor, the parent and guardian

    I don't think there has ever been a more deceiving first impression than this guy's.


    Once more with Yihwa Arkraptor showed, despite his appearance, he "cares" and apparently not just about Miseng. He recognized Yihwa's problem and what it was doing to her before anybody else and gave her reassurance in an almost parental way.

    It seems to me like this isn't even something he's trying to do, it's just who he is. He saw a child in need of guidance and he couldn't not help. I'm excited about this not because of what it means for Yihwa or even Arkraptor himself but because of what it means for Baam because if FUG starts pulling him one way and his sense of right and wrong in another a few wise words with no agenda can make all the difference.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 18, 2012 at 10:34 PM.
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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member abc1233's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    Very nice review with some interesting points. About Baam actually sharing FUG's goal, although I think that he's probably just using them as a means to get stronger (how else can he get a high ranker as a teacher, especially if he has to be undercover) in order to reach Rachel, there is still a possibility that he does actually want to kill Zahard without being a moron. We're still missing a large chunk of Baam's backstory, though Zahard most likely played a part in it (considering his symbol in the cave Baam was trapped in), so it's possible that Zahard wronged him in some way which led to Baam being imprisoned or Rachel betraying him. It's also possible that his goal is similar to Wangnan's which was why he seemed so interested in Wangnan's conviction, he may blame the system that Zahard set up for all the wrongs he saw during his time in the tower (betrayals, killing, etc.). Either way, there are viable scenarios in which Baam shared FUG's ideals without being stupid or desperate.

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    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    Quote Originally Posted by abc1233 View Post
    Very nice review with some interesting points. About Baam actually sharing FUG's goal, although I think that he's probably just using them as a means to get stronger (how else can he get a high ranker as a teacher, especially if he has to be undercover) in order to reach Rachel, there is still a possibility that he does actually want to kill Zahard without being a moron. We're still missing a large chunk of Baam's backstory, though Zahard most likely played a part in it (considering his symbol in the cave Baam was trapped in), so it's possible that Zahard wronged him in some way which led to Baam being imprisoned or Rachel betraying him. It's also possible that his goal is similar to Wangnan's which was why he seemed so interested in Wangnan's conviction, he may blame the system that Zahard set up for all the wrongs he saw during his time in the tower (betrayals, killing, etc.). Either way, there are viable scenarios in which Baam shared FUG's ideals without being stupid or desperate.
    The thing about that idea is that Baam isn't really angry about being imprisoned in that cave because that's how he met Rachel. Even if Zahard put him in there I have to think it would be pretty unlikely that he would angry enough to kill over that. He would probably just want to know why?

    It's more likely that he might want to change the tower. I could easily believe that of him, but the problem there is the idea of trusting FUG to help him do it. Changing the tower or even wanting to fight Zahards system is fine but FUG's methods and reputation are extremely unsavory. Which is why I say submitting himself completely to their guidance would be very foolish. After all, whose to say that what FUG wishes the tower to be isn't worse than what Zahard makes it. Change is only good when it makes things better.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 15, 2012 at 08:18 PM.
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    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Monsterguy's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    In response to the question asked in the poll, I must say I'm sure Baam just took their(FUG's) hand when they extended it to him. That was the only thing that was left to Baam with everything going on around him at that time (if I would be put in the same position, I would do the same as Baam) !!!


    Hmm, but personally I don't see Baam using FUG, rather FUG using Baam !!!
    That's because FUG wants Baam for something ("to kill king Zahard"), but Baam has on the other side, no expectations from FUG. All left to Baam after joining FUG, was to change himself from a person who trusted anybody to a person that trust's NOBODY !!!



    Actually, I see current Baam as a person who has buried his heart deep deep inside himself - in a sealed place(like how he was sealed in a cave before entering a tower).


    About why Baam has shut himself up completely, is because I believe nobody from FUG has tried to understand Baam's feelings (as you also partly mentioned in your review, and what I strongly agree with), but in my opinion they have only wanted to see results, and for Baam not to feel any sympathy in battle. So that he as an irregular would someday be able to kill "king Zahard" without hesitation.



    What I was trying to say was that "there" I see things getting complicated again in the future. This is because Baam was thought by FUG how to completely seal his feelings/emotions while fighting, and always be ready to kill his opponent at the first opportunity presented to him. While being thought that and treated with people where this worked, I believe Baam automatically sealed also his old personality(to care for people). As Akraptor said the current team is full of "defective products" and while some have problems with controling power like Yihwa, others have personality problems like Baam - closing himself up in front of others.



    Now, Yihwa is like a dog that found something interesting(maybe a bone) in the earth, digging it out, but what is buried under a few layers are Baam's feelings. Through time I hope Yihwa and this new team would make Baam "a little more" softer again, like in part 1.



    Still, how to express himself to others while fighting and while having fun, and which moves with how much force to use on somebody not to kill him/her, would be at first difficult for Baam. But for Baam's problem to be completely solved, and for him to feel more secure, I think it would happen only when he would meet with his old teammates from part 1...



    PS: This is partly based on my theory that Baam would separate itself from FUG true intentions, and do as he would see things fit...
    Last edited by Monsterguy; August 15, 2012 at 06:49 PM. Reason: spelling
    Spoiler: sample from originally colourful manhwa Tower of God show


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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity TheBoss's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    TOG never fails to amuse me
    I think the main point to understand FUG it's not trying to understand the underlings but the main founder, Luslec. Of course FUG kills people as they wish but so does RED and other Zahard underlings, so things may not seems as simple as seeing who is the good or the bad guy.
    As for baam, seeing as he cares for Yihwa life, Im more than sure that he is still his old self, but of course he is a lot less naive.
    IDK if it was only me but when Hwa Ryun said that they want baam with a stronger team I automatically thought of Koon and the others ^^.

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member abc1233's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    The thing about that idea is that Baam isn't really angry about being imprisoned in that cave because that's how he met Rachel. Even if Zahard put him in there I have to think it would be pretty unlikely that he would angry enough to kill over that. He would probably just want to know why?

    It's more likely that he might want to change the tower. I could easily believe that of him, but the problem there is the idea of trusting FUG to help him do it. Changing the tower or even wanting to fight Zahards system is fine but FUG's methods and reputation are extremely unsavory. Which is why I say submitting himself completely to their guidance would be very foolish. After all, whose to say that what FUG wishes the tower to be isn't worse than what Zahard makes it. Change is only good when it makes things better.
    Well right now we don't know if he is angry or not, the last time he mentioned his time in the cave he still thought Rachel was his friend and was therefore grateful to meet her there. Right now though that isn't the case, though I admit this is the less likely scenario considering the fact that he doesn't know whether meeting Rachel was a blessing or a curse.

    All Baam needs to trust FUG to do is to make him strong enough to defeat Zahard, and FUG is probably the most trustworthy organisation to do that. In terms of trusting them to create a better system however, there is no need for that. If FUG trains him to become strong enough to defeat someone like Zahard then he will also be stronger than FUG itself, in which case he will be beyond FUG's control and can simply create a system on his own or with people he actually trusts.

    Though as I said, the most likely scenario is that he doesn't share FUG's goals at all and is simply using them to get stronger and climb the tower so that he can find Rachel (as he hinted at to Love)

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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    I don't think Baam has any real reason to kill Zahard. When he was in the cave, he didn't know anything about Zahard personally, and after he got into the Tower, he could only find out from rumors or from what FUG told him. And if he based his decision to kill Zahard on that untrustworthy information, then he is an idiot.
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    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    @Monsterguy
    I find your take interesting.

    I guess, the main difference between our viewpoints is that you tend to think that FUG reached a hand out to Baam and he took it. While I tend to think that Hwa Ryun, in her capacity as a "guide" led Baam to FUG as a path to Rachel. So really it's not that he stopped trusting it's that he trusted Hwa Ryun and she took him to place that seems to want to use him as a weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    TOG never fails to amuse me
    I think the main point to understand FUG it's not trying to understand the underlings but the main founder, Luslec. Of course FUG kills people as they wish but so does RED and other Zahard underlings, so things may not seems as simple as seeing who is the good or the bad guy.
    As for baam, seeing as he cares for Yihwa life, Im more than sure that he is still his old self, but of course he is a lot less naive.
    IDK if it was only me but when Hwa Ryun said that they want baam with a stronger team I automatically thought of Koon and the others ^^.
    I'm not entirely sure that "a team that suits him better" necessarily means stronger people. In fact given FUG's agenda I'd bet the team they would want for him would one filled with people that hate Zahard, instead of a group of oddballs.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc1233 View Post
    Well right now we don't know if he is angry or not, the last time he mentioned his time in the cave he still thought Rachel was his friend and was therefore grateful to meet her there. Right now though that isn't the case, though I admit this is the less likely scenario considering the fact that he doesn't know whether meeting Rachel was a blessing or a curse.

    All Baam needs to trust FUG to do is to make him strong enough to defeat Zahard, and FUG is probably the most trustworthy organisation to do that. In terms of trusting them to create a better system however, there is no need for that. If FUG trains him to become strong enough to defeat someone like Zahard then he will also be stronger than FUG itself, in which case he will be beyond FUG's control and can simply create a system on his own or with people he actually trusts.

    Though as I said, the most likely scenario is that he doesn't share FUG's goals at all and is simply using them to get stronger and climb the tower so that he can find Rachel (as he hinted at to Love)
    Ahh but that's just it FUG can't kill Zahard because his contract makes him invulnerable somehow to regulars. Even if Baam could killed him that would in no way make him beyond FUG's power.

    Though I doubt that even matters because, again, Baam has no reason that we know of to want Zahard dead, and if you look at some of his only direct words on the subject....

    "I am Jyu Viole Grace, one of the slayer candidates of FUG. Zahard and their kin... I live for their death. That is why none of you can become my teammate. I am your enemy."

    I've come to the conclusion that's a lie because it makes no sense on several levels.

    The "Zahard and their kin" part
    Because that wording means killing Yuri and Androssi and I don't think anybody would believe that of him. Those are two people to whom he owes his life.

    The "I live for their death" part
    Because that's not the case. It seems pretty obvious Rachel is still his priority. If he lives for something, it's gotta be that does it? And if he's not even sure if he hates her, how could he hate Zahard; even if the man had personally wronged him(which remember is still and "IF" at this point.) And, as 0Xellos said, any information received from FUG on the subject should be highly suspect; since it would so obviously serve their agenda.

    So for the time being I'm under the impression that Hwa Ryun said she would guide Baam to a place where he could gain the strength to get the answers he longs for and took him to FUG. Baam went along with it and "played along" but is probably not interested in the organization outside of them making him strong enough to get to Rachel. Though perhaps Baam has them believing otherwise.

    -----------------------------------------------

    Something that I'm curious about is whether or not FUG knows that Baam is still chasing Rachel, because Ha Jinsung didn't seem to. If they don't, what does that say about Hwa Ryun's loyalty to FUG; because she definitely knows.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 18, 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Monsterguy's Avatar
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    Re: Tower of God Chapter 106 & 107 Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    @Monsterguy
    I find your take interesting.

    I guess, the main difference between our viewpoints is that you tend to think that FUG reached a hand out to Baam and he took it. While I tend to think that Hwa Ryun, in her capacity as a "guide" led Baam to FUG as a path to Rachel. So really it's not that he stopped trusting it's that he trusted Hwa Ryun and she took him to place that seems to want to use him as a weapon.
    I see, interesting...

    Same story with with same ilustration, yet different angles of perceiving it by just two random people. That's why I love this manhwa...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    -----------------------------------------------

    Something that I'm curious about is whether or not FUG knows that Baam is still chasing Rachel, because Ha Jinsung didn't seem to. If they don't, what does that say about Hwa Ryun's loyalty to FUG; because she definitely knows.
    According to your theory "where Baam is using FUG to be stronger, and using them to chase after Rachel", I think that Hwa Ryun saw Baam as an interesting person at first glance/sight (nice looking), and after spending a while with him fell for him, as in a "lovely dovely"*1 concept (although nothing happened "yet")...
    Spoiler: *1 show


    If I may speculate, I hope Hwa Ryun might just felt insecure at first (after climbing the tower and entering FUG), got shocked by Baam (while protecting Rachel he almost literally ripped Hwa Ryun's skull open), and after knowing him better (when Hwa Ryun was spending time with Baam), now wants him for herself.



    Like this, currently Hwa Ryun might just be silent about what she knows (that Baam still chases Rachel), and that nobody else knows what's in Baam's head (remember Baam did not open himself to Yu Han Sung, who was untill now the only person shown from FUG intelligent enough to figure out such things - Hwa Ryun might be second, although she keeps quiet about it).

    Anyway, I feel another cat fight from Hwa Ryun with Androssi later on for Baam (), where Hwa Ryun would lose. I also see Hwa Ryun convincing Baam to leave Rachel alone/forget her, if that happens before a meeting with Androssi or original team from part 1.

    ---------------

    Well, if it would be after my theory "where FUG reached a hand out to Baam and he just took it". Than I really don't know what to expect. The best I can think of is a big shock when Baam coincidentally meet's Rachel again, and wants explanation why she betrayed him, although Rachel would just try to kill him with a real intent to kill*2.

    Spoiler: *2 show


    About what might happen next, it's beyond me to speculate right now...
    Spoiler: sample from originally colourful manhwa Tower of God show


    It never ceases to amaze me:
    "How are authors of famous manhwa / manga,... able to create such amazing works???"

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