1999 vs 2011 Versions

[Noonealive]

Moderator message by: Uriel

I don't care about flame wars, but I feel there is a need for some people to express it, to feel butt-hurt or just to fangasm.

Remember to be polite. You can insult in the air, but I'm not stupid to read between lines so please don't insult to anybody in particular.

So...Here be dragons.

Guys, i have something to say!!!! It's probably nothing new but still.
I started watching the Anime from the beginning, and for some reason my appreciation for what madhouse is doing is growing. I really started focusing on how they were handling Gon and his tendencies and the way people would describe him and such. They really did Gon justice, most of the time he was coming off as the comedic relief for me. I got a little giddy with some of the shit i saw him doing, but oh man. Gon does really seem like MH main focus and didin't realize much of it until i re watched the episodes. Madhouse understands the story!!! =]

[HiggsBoson]

Guys, i have something to say!!!! It's probably nothing new but still.

I started watching the Anime from the beginning, and for some reason my appreciation for what madhouse is doing is growing. I really started focusing on how they were handling Gon and his tendencies and the way people would describe him and such. They really did Gon justice, most of the time he was coming off as the comedic relief for me. I got a little giddy with some of the shit i saw him doing, but oh man. Gon does really seem like MH main focus and didin't realize much of it until i re watched the episodes. Madhouse understands the story!!! =]

So true. The 99 version, especially the Gon characterization, made him into scared shitless bawling kid sometimes (scared shitless when Hisoka used Ren on 4 th exam; spend the whole day moping after Hisoka punched him; The 1st episode where Gon lied to Mito when apparently GON NEVER LIES!!; excessive tears of Gon in front of Kurapika). Props on the 2011 version on staying true on the manga impression of Gon.

I also got the impression on the 99 like the chemistry between Gon and Killua is similar to Mido Ban and Ginji from Getbackers. Noting this, Gon is the idiot one that sucks up and is wholely dependent on Killua (something like that).

But on 2011 I feel their friendship feel is more balanced or equal.

[mrsticky005]

So true. The 99 version, especially the Gon characterization, made him into scared shitless bawling kid sometimes (scared shitless when Hisoka used Ren on 4 th exam; spend the whole day moping after Hisoka punched him; The 1st episode where Gon lied to Mito when apparently GON NEVER LIES!!; excessive tears of Gon in front of Kurapika). Props on the 2011 version on staying true on the manga impression of Gon.

I also got the impression on the 99 like the chemistry between Gon and Killua is similar to Mido Ban and Ginji from Getbackers. Noting this, Gon is the idiot one that sucks up and is wholely dependent on Killua (something like that).

But on 2011 I feel their friendship feel is more balanced or equal.

IMO, 1999 Gon...was a pretty boring character actually.
Leorio was comic relief. He had melodramatic backstory told through
that flashback with Piedro. But it sorta felt like it was trying too hard.
Killua was a cool character...but he had too many emo/bipolar moments.
Basically 1999 Killua was a superior version of Sasuke but not by much.
Kurapika was the annoying bookworm who then suddenly became supercool
out of nowhere during his fight with Hisoka. Now, I do think the fight itself is
portrayed lamely, storywise it was like Kurapika was all confident and cool.
Then there was of course all the shipping going on. Of course it's there in
the manga and 2011 version. But I dunno, it just seems more bearable in the
latter versions...but that could be partly due to the fact I've grown used to it.
But anywho that aside, back to Gon. Why was the 1999 version of him boring?

Well you basically start off with 9 year old Gon finding out from Kite that his
Aunt Mito lied to him about his father and mother dying in an accident. His
father, Ging is still alive and is according to Kite, this really awesome hunter.
Gon is inspired. But he also has his sad panda moment where he's just like
"Why did daddy abandon me?" Now, I can't blame 1999 Gon for feeling that way
but that we never see manga Gon or 2011 Gon (I think) like that is one reason
why Gon is so interesting. You'd THINK he'd be hurt by it but instead it only
makes him more motivated. Then we get the filler with him chasing Leorio
around and he just comes off across as this persistent little bugger.
Then Gon gets all moralistic with the fake hunter and is just like "poaching is bad."
And basically for a good deal of the series Gon feels like a goody two shoes.
His fight against Hisoka feels more like it's to overcome his fear than to mend his
wounded pride. Really the thing made 1999 Gon interesting at all was that he get
his ass kicked on a consistent basis. It was like Believe It Naruto except he'd get owned.
It felt like the focus was really on the reunion of Gon and Ging rather than the journey.
So it made me think that Gon had ADD or something because he kept getting sidetracked.

I dunno part of this view is due to being less familiar with Gon (he's a deceivingly simple character when he's actually rather complex) but I do think there are little changes here and there in the 1999 series that make Gon seem this way.


And now let's talk about another enhancer

Uvogin.

I'm actually really starting to like this guy. I mean I always thought he was cool because he's strong as hell. But I mean his personality although disturbing is also incredibly likable.
I think a good portion of this is due to the voice actor. I don't speak Japanese so I can't
comment on how well of a voice actor he is. But even so, there is a charisma there.
I mean it's like you want to cheer on Uvogin...even though he's supposed to be the bad guy. Of course it's not like there much reason to like the mafia either. One thing I like
about Uvogin is a quote he has from the manga that is simple but says a lot about him

"I wanted to get stronger...simply to be strong."

Now that may sound like a pretty shallow reason. But it's actually pretty deep when you think about it. Uvogin isn't wanting to get strong to impress anyone or make people fear him or so he can beat up someone (though he loves doing that) he wants to get strong so he can be strong. I was watching this weird film called Charlie Bronsan with Tom Hardy (Bane) and it was about this British prisoner who just kept getting into fights no matter
where they locked him up and even as they tried negotiating with them he could never
figure out what it was he wanted all he knew was he wanted to punch someone's face.
Tom Hardy did an excellent job acting the role of Charlie Bronsan, though the movie itself
got a bit too artsy for my taste. That all said, it reminded me of Uvogin. I think if Uvogin
and Charlie Bronsan were real people and the latter knew nen then they would be the bestest of friends or the worst of enemies or maybe both. Anywho long live Uvogin

and now a question

who is your favorite shadow beast so far?

Rabid Wolf
Porcupine
Worm
Leech


Mine is Rabid Wolf.

[Noonealive]

With the 1999 anime i got the impression that the Director had no idea how the actual story was gonna develop.It seemed like he only needed to know the gist of what Togahi's story really intended. He started adding filler, changing sub characters personas, dialouge and all that jazz. One thing the 1999 missed was emphasis. You could tell that it lacked it. As the story progressed it seemed like Gon's journey was less interesting because the 1999 never really put emphasis on some of the things he did. If felt like Gon was the back burner and everyone else were the funner un cliched characters. Most of the time it was coming off more Cliche than usual. Gon somehow helping people left and right when actuality he rarely does it and also the 1999 rarely showed his mischievous side as well.

The way the 1999 handled the Heaven's arena arc was pretty herondous when you get to the nitty and gritty.You can tell that Furshashi had no idea that that arc had an actual point to it. It lacked emphasis on how Nen is handled, it seemed like they didn't really care much about it. The didn't really care much about how the characters were supposed to be portrayed. They omitted one of the best psychological fights of the series which quintessentially made Hisoka's character 100x better.They didn't even have Gon Vs Hisoka as the last fight for god sakes....Also the 'dark tone' bullshit was over used.......Imma stop here.. lol

Now with the 2011, you can tell that MH did their homework. They knew that the series was suppose to ooze some sort of normalcy in the beginning. Everything that was being depicted in the Hunter Exam was suppose to look normal with a bit of dark undertones, Same with the zoldyck and Heavens areana.People dying left and right was suppose to come off as normal. Gon and killua were suppose to come of as childish and immature and not some dull 12 year olds who take life seriously. I didn't see much of anything that contradicted the story, in fact MH attention to small detail actually made the story 10x better IMO.All the characters really fit their personality with every going arc. It does it to the point to where you would expect the characters to react a certain way...which is something i find really impressive. Just from re watching the series, i have no doubt that MH won't fail the story one single bit. They've done great so far, i don't know how they could lose the momentum now.

Sorry, MH did this to me... Why did they have to be so true to the manga!!!

---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

O yeah concerning the shadow beasts, The worm is the one i'm most impressed with. He come off creepy as fuck.. lol

[riniloves]

I'm not defending the 99 here... But... I heard during that time Zoldyck arc (his reason he and wife had a grand vacation) and before York Shin arc (his reason he said he has his first child? cant remember)... Togashi has his hiatus... to the point the 99 anime already catch up... and there are already 10 chapters left ...

[Refraction]

Teen (if only) melodrama incoming. Spoilered--isn't that a real word yet?--for natural causes.

I...can't really feel good about myself anymore in light of a lot of the comments being directed at the 1999 animé. As someone who really likes that series and thinks it's the bee's knees, I've had a hunt around the web for a place that doesn't have that intense hatred to it. I've looked all over the place...to feel companionship, more than anything, really. But there's nowhere that really seems to corroborate my view; a lot of the time, it's rather a pretty belligerent opposite! Nowadays, it sort of feels like I have really, really bad taste, and that my love is misplaced, and that I'm dead wrong in my reading of the manga, which I feel is very well represented in the first series. When the weight of the opposition against the groups that would support me is so vast and so unrestrained, it's...hard to feel otherwise. I tried my best, though!

Each to everyone's own: It's beautiful to see people here--and on forums afar--feel passionate about HxH and its new adaptation, and to articulate themselves, and to feel the support of a community that they're a part of--not least a community that's liable to get bigger in coming years! But, man...even though it sounds so melodramatic...I just feel so bloody heart-broken! I'm hurt at the weight of those who...really hammer the disparaging comments home, vis-a-vis the old series...sometimes, almost, as if to justify the new series. How can I like the Hunter franchise anymore, in any form, when all I can see in it--manga et al.--is the pain of trying to mediate and to support both sides while feeling the agony of my favourite cartoon being mauled? That cartoon was pretty much exactly how I envisaged the manga from the day I started reading it way back in 2006; to feel so bad about it, or to think that's a dastardly bowdlerisation of the manga is to make me think I'm wrong about my love of the manga. And to feel the need to support the first series to feel spite for the new one which is often the weapon of those who want to put the first series in a microwave and watch it melt like Bart Simpson's plastic army man!

The prevailing consensus is that the 1999 series is misguided. I'll leave my views to the contrary be. I'm wrong and misguided. But I feel so badly bruised after all this that I can't stick around with this series any longer. I'm no loss to the community by leaving; there are some really intelligent people around here that communicate more elegantly, more grandly--and, crucially, more actively!--than I, and I hope they love the series even more than I did. But I can't stand to look at the darn thing anymore because of how bad it makes me feel about myself.

[Uriel]

You're misreading. They're saying that 99 Gon was portrayed wrong. And it's not their fault. At that point, many of the hints we're seeing now it's due the Chimera Arc. Gon of Nippon adaptation could work well trough every arc except when Chimera Arc arrives, when we start to see the different-crazy Gon. That was hinted in the manga, but you overlook it without all the clues. The goody shoes Gon wasn't wrong in that sense, it was incomplete or misunderstood.

And you can't blame them, either. When you analyze the amount of Hiatus they had to deal with it was the only thing to do...To use a cliche to portray him as THEY see it in that time. 2011 version has the advantage that they have a bigger picture, a more clear idea to where to go and how they will portray. If they adds filler, they do know how more and less the characters would react and it will be more consistent, obviously.

[mousiehamster]

The reason is because the 1999 anime is not faithful to the manga. So isn't the 2011 anime in many respects, but at least it is similar in form. Many people who watch the show watch it as an adaptation. But as a stand alone show, the 1999 anime is superior. The direction is superior. The script is superior. The use of camera angles, the dialogue, the voice acting; the way characters are portrayed are highly nuanced and constructed with deliberate precision. Same with the music. Anyone who has an idea will tell you that the 1999 anime is a literary and artistic masterpiece. But what do you expect from highly prejudiced closet-manga nerds anyway? All they care about is the accuracy of the adaptation.

Manga forums don't really provide an accurate consensus anyway - small sample size and the likelihood of bias is pretty high. Better to look at sites or magazines with polls. 1999 HxH has plenty of acclaim, actually.

[chikkychappy]

Teen (if only) melodrama incoming. Spoilered--isn't that a real word yet?--for natural causes.

I...can't really feel good about myself anymore in light of a lot of the comments being directed at the 1999 animé. As someone who really likes that series and thinks it's the bee's knees, I've had a hunt around the web for a place that doesn't have that intense hatred to it. I've looked all over the place...to feel companionship, more than anything, really. But there's nowhere that really seems to corroborate my view; a lot of the time, it's rather a pretty belligerent opposite! Nowadays, it sort of feels like I have really, really bad taste, and that my love is misplaced, and that I'm dead wrong in my reading of the manga, which I feel is very well represented in the first series. When the weight of the opposition against the groups that would support me is so vast and so unrestrained, it's...hard to feel otherwise. I tried my best, though!

Each to everyone's own: It's beautiful to see people here--and on forums afar--feel passionate about HxH and its new adaptation, and to articulate themselves, and to feel the support of a community that they're a part of--not least a community that's liable to get bigger in coming years! But, man...even though it sounds so melodramatic...I just feel so bloody heart-broken! I'm hurt at the weight of those who...really hammer the disparaging comments home, vis-a-vis the old series...sometimes, almost, as if to justify the new series. How can I like the Hunter franchise anymore, in any form, when all I can see in it--manga et al.--is the pain of trying to mediate and to support both sides while feeling the agony of my favourite cartoon being mauled? That cartoon was pretty much exactly how I envisaged the manga from the day I started reading it way back in 2006; to feel so bad about it, or to think that's a dastardly bowdlerisation of the manga is to make me think I'm wrong about my love of the manga. And to feel the need to support the first series to feel spite for the new one which is often the weapon of those who want to put the first series in a microwave and watch it melt like Bart Simpson's plastic army man!

The prevailing consensus is that the 1999 series is misguided. I'll leave my views to the contrary be. I'm wrong and misguided. But I feel so badly bruised after all this that I can't stick around with this series any longer. I'm no loss to the community by leaving; there are some really intelligent people around here that communicate more elegantly, more grandly--and, crucially, more actively!--than I, and I hope they love the series even more than I did. But I can't stand to look at the darn thing anymore because of how bad it makes me feel about myself.

hi refraction,

i understand how you feel. the mangahelpers forums is actually the hxh forum (or subforum/thread) that is most supportive of the 2011 series and antagonistic towards 1999. in the past, i've kept reiterating that people's criticisms of 1999 are just misguided (see my posting history), only for a bunch of people to reply to me with their defenses. i've given up on these forums a long time ago; there's no way you can make people change their views.

but let me tell you one thing: you are not alone. stand your ground because the 1999 series is far superior. the criticisms against 1999 series are plain wrong. yes it made changes, but people here are exaggerating the impact of these changes on the series. these people also have no clue whatsoever what constitute good execution; if they did, they'd understand that 2011 is NOWHERE near the league of the 1999 series. some even pull-out ridiculous things out of their asses like bringing-up the "bishounen" promotional covers of 1999 and use it to bash the series. (uhm, hello? gon and killua just kissed in the previous episode. guess how many 1999 fans give a fuck? NONE.) the fact is, you're right: the 1999 series captured the spirit of the manga even better than 2011, which has not a single ounce of spirit, soul or creativity.

i'm sorry, i know i said some mean things in this post (contrast to your niceness) and i know it's not your intention to start a flame war, but i just have to say my peace after the constant barrage against 1999 from people who don't know what they're talking about. all i want to say is 1999 is an amazing anime that captured the manga well and at times even exceeded it. don't let the fans here let you think otherwise. in a few years, when the dust has settled, i know for a fact that we will be proven right.

if you want, i recommend you visit narutoforums: http://www.narutoforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=340. it has many 2011 tards floating around, but a good number (mostly old-timers) are 1999 fans through and through. i can at least assure you that the 1999 is better represented over there.

.....
oh well, shitstorm incoming

[Uriel]

Actually in music direction I agree...Cameras, I prefer the 2011 one. The use of them are smarter, the angles arrived are more thought in that sense. 1999 has that all noir films angles which are always profiles and it gets easily boring.

The script should be the manga. If you're doing an adaptation, you may want to check the original stuff. If not we could say that Avatar The Last Airbender film is good because it changes stuff from the animations. And it's not. It's horrible. Mostly because the lack of fidelity.

Moderator message by: Uriel

And well, highly prejudiced closet-manga nerds is not an insult per-se, but I would prefer to avoid ANY qualifications and adjectives for people who doesn't like what you like.

*

So, new thread to start the flame war. Compare, show, do whatever you think need to prove who is better in your opinion. Just don't bash or I'll bring the whips.

And let me warn you: I maybe biased to discuss this in particular but not to moderate. So beware.

[chikkychappy]

the thing is mousiehamster, many are not even true "highly prejudiced closet-manga nerds." they are just using the changes in 1999 as an excuse to put 2011 in a pedestal because it's the only thing they can hold-on to. if it's 2011 who makes the changes they are actually awfully quiet and will even defend it (not all though; a few are at least consistent). in episodes 41 for example they had to be REMINDED, "hey guys, 2011 is starting to diverge from the manga. shouldn't we hate on it lolz". when canary had a filler, people liked it and used "well 1999 had filler too durr!" as their defense instead of, i don't know, disliking both?

[Uriel]

It would be useful to both sides to list the changes that you don't like of the other version.

[chikkychappy]

fillers i don't like from 1999:

• pre hunter exam
• marathon
• anita
• gon vs illumi
• mike filler

that's it. i think i like the rest, though there might be a scene or two i might be forgetting. but the point is, these fillers are not enough to ruin the series.

anyway w/e, i've said what i wanted. bash away

[Cinnabar]

The reason is because the 1999 anime is not faithful to the manga. So isn't the 2011 anime in many respects, but at least it is similar in form. Many people who watch the show watch it as an adaptation. But as a stand alone show, the 1999 anime is superior.

I somewhat agree with this one, actually. I think I've said something similar to this in the new anime thread. As an adaptation, 2011 anime is better and more accurate. But that's because Madhouse has the advantage: they have more material to adapt, they know more of the story than the first anime did back then, and Togashi is working closely with the production. It's only to be expected. The Nippon anime pales in comparison as an adaptation. However, as a standalone, it does well. Hence why a lot of people appreciate it and consider it a masterpiece.

I think it's all a matter of taste. Different folks, different strokes. I don't think I should say much in this thread since I've only watched a few episodes of the '99 anime. And despite whatever bitching I did about the pacing and Killua's emo-schizo-tendencies in the fillers, I do think that the Nippon anime certainly has an appeal to it. I liked the direction. I might have appreciated it if I haven't read the manga yet and didn't know how the characters interacted. Honestly, I tried watching the first anime before the remake. The only reason I stopped was because of the pacing (which was understandable, given what little they have to adapt at that time compared to now) and the characterizations (mostly Killua's - haven't watched Yorkshin to see the rumored emo Kurapika) that irked me. Other than that, the episodes I have seen were enjoyable to watch. I'd actually enjoy the OOC moments if I just overlook them and see them as filler.

I'll stop talking now since I really don't have much to contribute. I've only watched so little of the first anime. This'll be a fun thread. I'll grab my popcorn now.

[mousiehamster]

Actually in music direction I agree...Cameras, I prefer the 2011 one. The use of them are smarter, the angles arrived are more thought in that sense. 1999 has that all noir films angles which are always profiles and it gets easily boring.

The script should be the manga. If you're doing an adaptation, you may want to check the original stuff. If not we could say that Avatar The Last Airbender film is good because it changes stuff from the animations. And it's not. It's horrible. Mostly because the lack of fidelity.

I haven't watched the Avatar film but a bad film is bad because it is bad, not conceptually because it failed to follow the source material. How far can you follow the manga anyway? Remember the two mediums are different. What appears to flow in the manga might end up looking like a bunch of static shots feebly attempting to portray motion. The format of the manga also requires the author to cram a certain amount of content into each 20 page chapter, usually with something approaching a cliffhanger at the last page. But a 20 minute show doesn't have to do that. The show also has a noticeable array of elements at its disposal such as music, voice, animation - all of which can contribute substantially and substantively to the narrative - these aren't just low level additions if you play it right. When armed with these elements, it also means the director of the show fundamentally has a large discretion. For instance, a conversation in written form - a transcript, if you will - is not speech in a lossless format. What about tone? What about speed of delivery? The pauses? You may also want to combine expression with voice. Many memorable characters in film are defined largely by their voice such as Anton Chiggur (spelling) from No Country for Old Man or Bane from Dark Knight Rising or Frank from The Departed. Entire films have been made about guys yapping to each other, and are engrossing in doing so. Can you imagine Twelve Angry Men in manga form? It just wouldn't work.

Moderator message by: Uriel

And well, highly prejudiced closet-manga nerds is not an insult per-se, but I would prefer to avoid ANY qualifications and adjectives for people who doesn't like what you like.

My bad i was getting annoyed at criticism that i felt was unwarranted. You can criticize all you want about the show being unfaithful and it being a piece of shit but there's no way anybody with a sense of literary taste - i should say literary perception rather - can say something so awfully wrong. Sure, everyone has opinions and they're all subjective, but that doesn't mean all opinions are worthless. If all opinions are worthless, and all literary works are therefore perceived differently by everyone, then there would be no such thing as good films and good books. There actually is a body of knowledge with all sorts of models and theories on stuff like narrative, drama, devices - the do and do-nots - that is widely, as well as academically, recognized.