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Thread: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
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    Bleach The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    So there I was last night, re-reading what has been published of the Blood war arc so far, and it struck me:

    What is the Vandenreich planning to achieve with all this? Their goal is, obviously, to crush SS in which appears to be a vendetta against the Shinigami who betrayed them and drove them to near extinction.

    And of course, to keep killing Hollows after that. That's what Quincies do, and they don't seem to be about to change their mind anytime soon. Which brings us to a question:

    Why would they do that, if they know that the world would go to shit if they did? More so if the Shinigami, the ancient Balancers, are not there anymore? Are the Vandenreich a suicidal group, or what? Do they want to bring destruction to every world?

    Unlikely. Here's my theory: The King of the Vandenreich means to eliminate every spirit, be it Hollows, Shinigami or mere Pluses, and create a world in which there is no afterlife at all. More than that: a world in which Quincies absolutely control spirits. This way, there would be no need to keep the balance of souls: there would be no souls to balance!

    This is the peace the King wants. Peace for the living. Destruction for the dead.

    It sounds a little bit crazy, but let us look at the evidence. First off, what do we know about the Vandenreich?

    a) They are an army, bound to obey rules and commands.

    b) They are somewhat religious. They speak in terms of "holy war", they see themselves as "holy executioners" with "a mission", and they want to "purge" the "treacherous", "heretic" Shinigami, and consider Hollows to be "tainted" and "dirty". They're pretty much inquisitors. Somewhat of a sect.

    c) Their King wants "peace". He always speaks in such a manner, and considers violence a mean to achieve non-violence. Apparently dislikes conflict.

    In short: the are well-intentioned extremists, or at least they like t see themselves as such. They don't want revenge as their final goal: they want something else. They believe themselves to be right: they think theirs is the only just cause.

    They can't be plotting the destruction of the world.

    But they can't just go and screw up SS and HM, right? They know that'd spell doom. Even if they manage to wipe out every existing soul, more people are going to die every day, and what about the resulting Pluses?

    They are disposed of using the Sklaverei technique.

    Look at this page:

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/493/2

    Quilge said that Ayon would "live". LIVE. He doesn't see Sklaverei as a tool of murder: he sees it as a tool used to transform a filthy heathen into something that he approves: enslaved reishi. That's life for the Quincy. That's what everything should be like.

    I believe Quincies, or Vandenreich members at least, see ghosts and souls and everything related as something unholy, something that should not exist. And they plan to enslave the dead by turing them into part of their bodies: they want the souls to "live" again.

    Kind of a screwed up way of thinking, but then again these guys are fundamentalist loons (there's a reason for that manner of speech and those military uniforms and that german motif, all of which reminds every being of the planet about You-know who).

    This is the King's Final Solution: exterminate all souls. Put an end to the feud between Shinigami and Hollows and Quincies, and enslave any new soul that appears when somebody dies, something the Vandenreich seems to believe is like going to heaven. This resonates well with one of Bleach's main motifs: that a conflict only ends when one side is dead (just like Grimmjow and Nnoitra said).

    This is what believe is the goal of the Vandenreich: a new Holy Regime without souls.

    A world only for the living.

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  3. #2
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    Interesting. The only problem is that if there're no soul to go to SS, then how will a new born get a soul?? Remember that the soul is purified by the shinigami, go to ss, and at sometimes later reborn into the human world. If the quincies destroys all the existing souls at SS and HM, and then enslave any new soul, will the new born be zombies????

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    Well, I do believe the quincy intent on changing how the afterlife and balance of souls work however going to the extreme of actually having no afterlife seems a bit much. How would that work? That there actually is a balance of souls implies that not all souls can be born at the same time, or at least I would argue there is a sort of waiting list so to speak. Where would souls waiting to be reincarnated go without an afterlife?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    I think their plan has something to do with their ice-palace dimension. Well, that's obvious, but perhaps that dimension is a Quincy version of Soul Society, or some kind of replacement for the afterlife after Soul Society is destroyed....in other words if Soul Society is destroyed, then all the souls could pass on to the afterlife in the Quincy world and the balance of souls wouldn't be all messed up. The afterlife in Soul Society is imperfect at best too, so maybe they want to rule things a different way that would create a better afterlife in their eyes at least.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Saint Markus's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    I agree with some points of view on this subject. I also think the Vandenreich is out to control the aspect of the "soul" itself for their own means. Especially since, after reading the "Fullbringer Arc" that the soul itself is the true source of power.

    In that case, Ichigo's soul may need more training, even after the mesh of "Fullbring" in it now.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    There's definitely more to it than getting simple revenge for the Quincy massacre 200 years ago.

    According to the 6th seat guy here:

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/492/10
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/492/11

    Soul Society reached out to the Quincies numerous times, and each time, the Quincies said no. And as we can see here:

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/485/12

    Quincies are well aware of the balance of souls. Given that Juha Bach is well over 1000 years old, I'm inclined to belive that he's been behind the Quincies' actions for some time. If their goals were simply to protect humankind by eliminating Hollows by their own means, then it's a bit strange that they would jeopardise both the Soul Society and the world of the living when they know that disrupting the balance would cause the destruction of both. Their relentless refusal to listen to the Shinigami's warnings gives me the impression that they actually want the balance to collapse, but the question is - why? Maybe they know something no one else does, and they have their own theories as to what will happen if the balance of souls is tipped over. Bach has talked about doing things "for the sake of peace". Whatever his intentions are, he's probably convinced that they're noble. Whatever the Vandenreich are up to, I agree that they're out to fundamentally change the entire nature of the afterlife in some way.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    I think SS is just exaggerating things. Not every soul becomes a hollow. Quincy can interact with normal souls and guide them to SS. The only thing they have done is kill hollows. Even if all hollows get wiped out, there would still be a steady exchange of souls and births between the two worlds.

    Vasto Lordes and Adjuchas themselves consume huge amounts of hollows. Isn't that by itself destroying the balance? Quincy only kill the few in Earth. VL destroy them in the thousands. But you don't see SS going to HM to wipe them out/purify them.

    In the end, old SS were just bloodthirsty, violent killers. I wouldn't trust the ramblings of a young shinigami. They don't know what happened and can just be regurgitating lies they have been told.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The Vandenreich's true goal... a world without afterlife?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judau Ashta View Post
    I think SS is just exaggerating things. Not every soul becomes a hollow. Quincy can interact with normal souls and guide them to SS. The only thing they have done is kill hollows. Even if all hollows get wiped out, there would still be a steady exchange of souls and births between the two worlds.

    Vasto Lordes and Adjuchas themselves consume huge amounts of hollows. Isn't that by itself destroying the balance? Quincy only kill the few in Earth. VL destroy them in the thousands. But you don't see SS going to HM to wipe them out/purify them.

    In the end, old SS were just bloodthirsty, violent killers. I wouldn't trust the ramblings of a young shinigami. They don't know what happened and can just be regurgitating lies they have been told.
    I don't think we can say shinigami are exaggerating things. At the start of the arc we saw Vandereich killing but a few thousand hollows and that was enough to make SS worry about it. Then we saw mayuri had to kill 28000 just to correct the balance. We could assume mayuri did it for the lolz and yamamoto approved because he is incoherent but we have no reason to believe either. Right now there should be somewhere in the billions of souls in the balance and even then we saw mere thousands warrant the destruction of SS. If anything, the problem is that the exchange happens regularly even when souls are outright removed from it allowing one side to flood.

    We don't quite know what exactly happens when VL kill other hollows. When a shinigami kills a hollow it goes to SS. When a quincy kills a hollow the soul of the hollow stops existing altogether. Perhaps when a hollow kills another hollow it simply goes straight into the balance of souls thing. Perhaps it is only the power of the hollow which the VL keeps and its soul goes to wherever souls are balanced.

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