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Okay, so there's always loads of discussion and comparison of the Captains' strength, but what about the Vice-Captains? Ikkaku and Yumichika? Maki-Maki?? List here how you think characters below Captain rank (not including Ichigo, Isshin or former Captains).
Sorry if there's already a thread on this topic! And if you don't like threads comparing characters' strengths, don't post here! Also, this is just for fun. Don't anybody take it too seriously.
So out of the below-Captain Shinigami, I think the one's in the running are the Vice-Captains, Ikkaku and Yumichika. I'm going to omit Isane, Iba, Nanao, Yachiru and Nemu from my list because we haven't seen any of them fight for more than about a page.
In my list I'm talking about them at full strength, Ikkaku and Yumichika included.
Kira has a hax shikai, I'd put him above Hisagi because of Zan's match-up/ Also, his knowledge of kido is diverse ranging for attacking spells to defensive spells as well as healing spells. However, Kira loses to Matsumoto also because of type match-up. But then Matsumoto can't be stronger than Hisagi...
I think it is better to put them in tiers:
t2: Renji, Ikkaku, Yumichika
Yumichika being in this tier is because of the spoiler page (http://bleachasylum.com/threads/1978...-Tite-v2/page2) where it says his strength rivals Ikkaku and has a bankai (a bit ambiguous)
t3: Hisagi, Kira, matsumoto, Hinamori. I place them in the same level because they had similar timeline an combat ability.
t4: Omaeda the worst vice captain everseen....
t5: trash seated officers
Vice-Captains eh? This should be interesting. Let's see...
Sasakibe(Going of of the CC's hype)
Last edited by eefrit; August 28, 2012 at 01:40 PM.
To be honest I don't think renji or ikkaku reach actual captain class. At least with what we have seen so far it does not seem like their reiatsu is on the same league as an actual captain class enemy. In turn I would think sasakibe was pretty much implied to have reiatsu comparable to the best captains around. Basically, sasakibe would be someone who should not stand alongside other VCs but rather the actual captains and should win against a VC as easily as any other captain. His bankai being fully developed would put renji and ikkaku at an even greater disadvantage. I would also rate renji higher than ikkaku. Ikkaku was shown as inferior to renji during the SS arc and renji by all standards should have developed his more useful bankai more even if ikkaku did change enough to be willing to use his bankai against others.
I would question whether rukia would be all that high in power among the VCs. Honestly, my impression is that she is actually among the lesser VCs. Not just because of her recent promotion, I just get the impression that rukia has not been shown to be as powerful as the other VCs. Perhaps momo is the weakest VC although she is still reasonably capable as shown when she surprised 3 bestias. I am not sure of where I would rank matsumoto though. She could be at any tier easily considering we have relatively little of her and she is the oldest VC safe for the late sasakibe.
Yumichika is a bit of a weird mix. I don't quite get the impression that he is overwhelmingly powerful in strictly physical terms. Rather I get the impression his main attribute is his overwhelmingly powerful shikai. I don't think he would be an even match in a physical competition against other VCs but he might win with his actual shikai.
^On Renji and Ikkaku, I'd say they are overall stronger than most of the VCs. While not as versatile as some of the other VCs, they are the stronger ones on the list. Especially Renji if, going by his own admission, he trained over the months to fight against Aizen level opponents(Fat chance though). Ikkaku, while definitely not at Renji's level, still has the reitsu to at least achieve bankai, which is still a pretty big deal. I'm pretty sure we'll get more from him in the future, 'specially since Kenpachi has a slight chance of being out of commission.
I see Rukia as a versatile fighter, despite her always going against opponents much stronger than her. Her zanpakuto is strong and she seems well versed in kido. She is by no means stronger than the others I listed in the elite group, but she seems more competent than Momo, Omeada, and Matsumoto. Speaking of Matsumoto, I only gave her that spot because of her Zanpakuto. TBH, I should have put her in the average group.
Yumichika is indeed an interesting case, however being that he is the third strongest man in the 11th division and still hides his zanpakuto's true power says a lot about his fighting capability. He might not be a match against the likes of Renji and Hisagi in a physical fight, but I think he could match the others.
1) Ishida - Quincy supposed to be even stronger than Quilge or whatever his name was, who whooped everyone in Hueco Mundo. Could beat a Captain when he took off his Quincy gloves.
2) Yachiru - Tags along with Kenpachi, I doubt she'd get taken out by a Quincy too quickly. She's Ikkaku's and Yumichika's superior, so if they have Bankai I'm sure she does.
3) Hisagi - No Bankai and couldn't kill a Quincy, but he sure lasted longer than Sasakibe or Kira did. Also took out Tosen, making Komamura look useless as always. I guess he shouldn't be this high on the list, but he's far less useless than the others so I put him here.
4) Sasakibe - Owned by the lamest Quincy (other than "Loyd Lloyd") but was hyped up by Yamamoto, so whatever
5) Ikkaku - Always gets beaten up, but at least more useful than Renji. Has Bankai.
6) Yumichika - Also more useful than Renji. Has Bankai.
7) Rukia - Hasn't been shown to have Bankai, but doesn't get owned all the time like Renji does. At least she took out an Espada.
8) Renji - Only here because he technically has Bankai. But any time he takes out his sword and shouts about "Zabimaruuuuuehh!!" you know you're about to see a whole lot of nothing.
9) Chad - Whipping boy of the Bleach series. But at least he protected Inoue from a crap ton of Quincy arrows and was still standing, Kira got 1-shot.
10) Inoue - Has the potential to be really powerful, but she's always useless in fights except that her healing's been more valuable than everyone on this list combined. Still, at least her shield thing consistently blocks stuff, I guess that's more than most other people on this list have going for them!
11) Kira - Can make himself useful once in a while, but now dead.
12) Matsumoto - Has very dangerous sword ability, almost like the 2nd Espada, but her purpose in Bleach is always to act like she's going to do something badass only to be surprised and owned by the enemy.
13) Nemu - Mayuri's slave, at least he's loaded her up with booby traps, so she's got some use.
14) Isane - Tags along with Unohana and helps heal people once in a while. Not so useful since it seems like every VC for some reason secretly also knows healing techniques now.
15) Karin - Ichigo's sister, has at least some powers, Urahara's been teaching her stuff
16) Ururu - The little girl living with Urahara, hits people with weapons and what-not
17) Kon - Is a stuffed animal and sometimes takes over Ichigo's body to kick people and run around
18) Don Kanonji - Had the balls to face off against Aizen
19) Iba - He has sunglasses. Wow.
20) Nanao - She has normal glasses. Not even sunglasses. Wow.
21) Omaeda - Sucks.
22) Afro Shinigami - Has an afro.
WORST) Hinamori - Her purpose in Bleach is to repeatedly say "Aizen-sama!" and be the most annoying character in the series. Her sword ability would be useful in the hands of any other character. Even Omaeda is more useful than she is. Horrible.
Last edited by Cyrs; September 06, 2012 at 11:21 PM. Reason: typo
Yumichika could end up beating all of the ones mentioned because of his shikai. We don't know how much sp it can suck, but it can finish an arrancar in released form, so I'd say that it is at least capable of defeating any vice captain and below rank (might not apply to Sasakibe).
Yachiru hasn't ever shown anything. Simply stating that because of the ability of the lesser seats, she must be immensely powerful is a stretch. Ikkaku has long attempted to hide his Bankai, and Yumichika continues to hide his Shikai. I don't doubt that Yachiru is on VC level, I just don't think one can argue thats she's more powerful than the other VCs.
Sasakibe has been suggested to be on par with some of the Senior Captains, so it's likely that he would top the list. I guess it doesn't help that early on Saskibe was provided with zero ability, and then suddenly he's a beast. But, I'm going to take Yama's word on it.
Renji and Ikkaki follow Sasakibe. They're capable of Bankai. That sort of changes a lot.
Yumichika should probably be next. He has one of the most dangerous Shikai, and it's been suggested that he may have more to offer. He has taken on some legitimate foes, icluding one of the Fraccion and Hisagi.
Hisagi & Rukia are probably the next two in line. They've been given mor time to shine, and have actually won some battles. Most of the other VCs come around comparable levels. Omaeda, and Iba excluded. Omaeda because he's completely useless. Iba because he's Komamura's VC, which does not give him any credit whatsoever.
Chad & Inoue are probably floating around, or slightly above, average VC level. It's hard to say. One moment Chad is impressive, and then he isn't. Inoue has the most ridiculous ability in the manga. Honestly, she is capable of attaining Goddess status, but that's not likely to happen because as soon as Inoue accomplishes something, she is immediately shoved back to damsel in distress status.
Then you've got the potential match-ups to consider. Some individuals' abilities' provide superior match-ups against certain individuals; Matsumoto v Kira comes to mind.
Last edited by Impossibility; August 29, 2012 at 07:32 AM.
At least, she is capable of using Kidou combinations, where most of the characters are unable to use even a single one properly.
Other parts that I disagree:
Renji being ranked lower than Rukia? Come on, I know Renji has been beaten a lot of times, but it's because he's generally matched up with overpowered guys.
Kira and Matsumoto ranked lower than Inoue? Well, Inoue won't even be able to fight without seeing Ichigo's sight near, so, I don't know how you came up to that conclusion.
For Isane's part;
I don't recall any other VC than Kira have such healing powers, and Kira was a former Medic squad member, so, you may be off with this argument. I'm not arguing with Isane's position in the list here, though.
PS. Number 16 is Ururu, not Uryuu. That's not an argument. A friendly correction (=
How The hell does Matsumoto ZAnpaktu even come close to 2nd Espada is more similar to Byakuyas Senbonzakura.Quote:
3. Vizard VCs.
4. Chad. Trained against a bankai. Inoue. Reality rejecting. Ishida. Quincy.
5. Renji, Ikkaku & Yumichika. Yachiru? Tenzaimon?
7. Omaeda. Deal with it. Head of the second assassination squad.
8. Hinamori, Kira, Matsumoto & Hisagi. Beat some fraccion.
9. The rest.
In case of only VC
I won't assume Yachiru is > Ikkaku or Yumichika and has bankai if Ikkaku does too. Good to notice that the real abilities of Ikkaku and Yumi are a secret, plus I doubt she would lose her position even if it's shown that she's weaker. She's Kenpachi's little most important friend, pixie, daughter, backpack, whatever. She won't be weak, for now we only know that she has quite a scary reiatsu. But she's unknown for now.
First is Sasakibe,
then Renji, Ikkaku
Yumichika (we haven't be shown yet what is a countermeasure to his hax although I doubt there isn't any)
then Rukia, Hisagi, Kira (I could see them being one line higher though)
Iba, Momo, Omaeda
I don't know about Iba and Omaeda, we haven't really seen everything they can do probably, but they'll probably stay fodder for the rest of Bleach anyway.
Hisagi, Matsumoto, Kira, I have no real idea if it's right, it depends on matchups I guess. They have good abilities but they probably still lack in raw power/reiatsu to make them stronger.
Only using Shinigami and VC
Sasakibe- it's explained in recent chapters
Renji- More balanced than Ikkaku and seems to be stronger Shikia vs Shikia. Bankia
Ikkaku- Bankia even though it's brittle it packs power and he's a good fighter.
Yachiru- should be on the bottom of my top 5 list since she's never fought but has shown her rieatsu and she produced a avatar something we only see from captain class ppl
Yumichikia- Defeated Hisagi in SS wit his Shikia...Him and Ikkaku are basically VC....And honestly thinking about it he could probably beat Ikkaku too.
Hisagi- Well Yumichika has a haxx shikia ability that's why he lost and Ikkaku has bankia he would eventually lose. So does Renji.