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Thread: Two Tobi's?

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Two Tobi's?

    My first post/thread. I haven't seen anyone on any forums or sites talk about this but this place seems to be the best Naruto discussions.

    First off I'll list the different Tobi's.

    Short hair Tribal Flames
    Short hair Swirl
    Long hair Tribal Flames
    Rinnengan Mask

    I think these are all the different ways we have see Tobi... So I'm starting to guess there are two unless Kishi goofed up on the timeline or I'm wrong about this.

    It's all around the Minato vs Tobi and the Uchiha Massacre.

    The Tobi that fought Minato was most likely Obito due to the fact of Tobi's ability. I've notice that he was young too. Watch the anime. You might can tell he was young which I've always thought it was Obito even before he was revealed. Note that this was short haired tribal flame mask.

    I'm guessing the Uchiha Massacre happened after this. Now check back to the flashback of Itachi talking to Tobi. It's long haired flame mask. Tobi is a lot taller than Itachi. Also, it's long haired tribal mask Tobi, the same one we saw that controlled Mizukage.

    Wouldn't it be short haired tribal Tobi that Itachi would of found. I don't think the Long haired Tobi would be Madara because Madaras hair is too large and the pattern doesn't really match Madara. Madara kept the same hair style till the day he died... And Edo Madara is proof.

    If it was all Obito.. Then he would of had to cut his hair, then grow it out, then cut it again. I highly doubt he would do that because it seems Kishi was keeping the characters consistent with looks.

    This is probably off the main topic, but I've seen people talk about the wall of Sharingans. Has anyone ever thought that those Sharingans are those of the dead Uchiha from the Massacre? It would benefit Tobi for more chances for forbidden techniques for the price of losing a Sharingan. It would fit since Obito only had one eye and used the ones from the Massacre for Izunagi or the other forbidden technique.

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  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by RowtronX View Post
    unless Kishi goofed up on the timeline
    Already proven true in chapter 599.

    Quote Originally Posted by RowtronX View Post
    The Tobi that fought Minato was most likely Obito due to the fact of Tobi's ability. I've notice that he was young too. Watch the anime. You might can tell he was young which I've always thought it was Obito even before he was revealed. Note that this was short haired tribal flame mask.
    I disagree, Tobi had the same stature as Minato. If he was really young why would Minato believe he was Madara, wouldn't he realize he was dealing with a 14 years old boy? Or better than time, if only 1 year passed since Obito's apparent death and the Kyuubi incident, how Minato did not recognize his student?

    But I agree that it seems to be Obito. He has the same eye ability, and his arms also melted.

    Quote Originally Posted by RowtronX View Post
    I'm guessing the Uchiha Massacre happened after this. Now check back to the flashback of Itachi talking to Tobi. It's long haired flame mask. Tobi is a lot taller than Itachi.
    It happened 7 years after the Kyuubi incident. I suppose it is possible for his hair to have grow during that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by RowtronX View Post
    Also, it's long haired tribal mask Tobi, the same one we saw that controlled Mizukage.
    Since Kisame recognized Tobi without his mask as the Mizukage, that long-haired men with bandages was indeed Obito.

    Of course, since Kirigakure was knows as the "Bloody Mist" at the time, this happened before Zabuza graduated at age of 9, or fucking 4 years before Kakashi Gaiden.
    Last edited by Fox666; September 01, 2012 at 04:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    hey guise
    obito vs kakashi with naruto and co in a forest
    "i'll play with you children later"

    ahahaahahahahhahahahaha!!!1111

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    it could be two physical tobis, but spiritually just one person. izuna maybe

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member kazeofsilence's Avatar
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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    Since Kisame recognized Tobi without his mask as the Mizukage, that long-haired men with bandages was indeed Obito.

    Of course, since Kirigakure was knows as the "Bloody Mist" at the time, this happened before Zabuza graduated at age of 9, or fucking 4 years before Kakashi Gaiden.
    Ibiki was an adult during that Kisame flashback, Ibiki was from Obito's and Kakashi's 1st chunin exam as a kid. Thus that flashback was several years after the 599 flashback. So either during the end of the Third War or a few years after the fact. There is no argument of it being impossible for it being Obito, it lines up to what has been presented up to now.

    There is a lot misconstrued as plotholes lately that actually has been explained, but was just missed. For me the Obito reveal isn't the plothole, the fact he did an almost 180 turn in his drive and demeanor. And if there is just one Tobi or two Tobi's with one being the real Madara before dying will determine how this turn happened.
    The Secret of the Manga

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    For the sake of it, this is an interesting image:



    Quote Originally Posted by kazeofsilence View Post
    Ibiki was an adult during that Kisame flashback, Ibiki was from Obito's and Kakashi's 1st chunin exam as a kid. Thus that flashback was several years after the 599 flashback. So either during the end of the Third War or a few years after the fact. There is no argument of it being impossible for it being Obito, it lines up to what has been presented up to now.
    True. But the Bloody Mist is still a chronological error. But Obito age not so much anymore, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/370/13

    back then, kishi hadn't even decided there would be a world balance of bijuus shared amongst the hidden villages

    look at how jiraiya is describing things

    kishi just retcons whatever he wants

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    I still think there WERE two Tobis. The one with long hair was Madara... have we ever seen him use his MS/Kamui? The one with shorter hair is the current Tobi we know. Nothing else makes sense, especially since Madara knows about the fake him.

    Maybe they're working together so they can get more done. Which begs the question... if that was really Madara controlling the MIzukage, who killed him and how? Was it because he wasn't used to his Rinnegan yet? And, did he have one eye because of Izanagi? It'd explain the mask even more.

    Doesn't make sense how Tobi was able to make Kisame think he was Madara, though. Maybe Madara has the same kind of scars or Tobi disguised his face?

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    The one with long hair was Madara... have we ever seen him use his MS/Kamui?
    It's true that we didn't get to see his Sharingan in action.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    if that was really Madara controlling the MIzukage
    Kisame recognized Obito as the Mizukage, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    who killed him and how?
    There are various possibles causes of Madara's death. He could have died of old age, since he should be getting close to 100 at this point. Or if he was the one that has given Nagato his eyes it should it would make much easier for someone to defeat him. Or both.

    Of course Madara wasn't old or was missing his eyes when Kabuto revived him, but Kabuto said he made Madara better than in his "golden ages" and certain experiments in his body.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    And, did he have one eye because of Izanagi? It'd explain the mask even more.
    Obito also had two eyes but only one on his mask.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Doesn't make sense how Tobi was able to make Kisame think he was Madara, though. Maybe Madara has the same kind of scars or Tobi disguised his face?
    In the end it could be because Tobi was convered in bandages at the point, so he didn't really get to see his face... but I am not sure if that is a convincing explanation.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Could be that the long-hair Tobi made himself look more like the current Tobi just in case. If he really was Madara, then he probably realized he wouldn't live long and wanted to make sure people believed the short-haired Tobi was Madara. Madara certainly knew about fake Madara, so he'd have to been alive, at least during the third war and end of it, unless there was another TObi that worked with Madara. X_x So we could have had three Tobi.

    While the old age makes sense, Tobi and Itachi did say Madara's chakra was one of the strongest, even among Uchiha. It was also probably why he was able to live so long, so I'm not really sure if old age really killed him. Of course, Mito was dying of old age, and she's an Uzumaki, known for their longevity. If he did use Izanagi though, I don't see how Madara could have given Nagato two eyes as he should have had only one EMS remaining. Plus, if Madara did die after the third world war, he couldn't have given Nagato his eyes as Madara himself said he awakened his Rinnegan shortly before his death.

    Kabuto revived Madara in his prime and added some stuff like Hashirama's cells and probably had something to do with Madara being able to use his Rinnegan despite being revived in his prime. Plus, right now, it's a fact that Madara survived his known final fight with Hashirama. HOwever, it is unknown when he actually died.

    If Madara was the original TObi, then it was probably to hide his other eye that was sealed away so people didn't think he was weak. For Tobi, the other eye could have been for Izanagi and as result, useless to him since Kamui would keep him safe.


    I don't think that's it, otherwise why would Kisame easily believe a bandaged person? I don't think the current Tobi had a bandaged face either. Though, most Uchiha do look alike, no?

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/370/13

    back then, kishi hadn't even decided there would be a world balance of bijuus shared amongst the hidden villages

    look at how jiraiya is describing things

    kishi just retcons whatever he wants
    that's why I strongly believe that tobi indeed was madara back then, untill kishi changed his mind ...
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member TobiOrNotTobi's Avatar
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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I still think there WERE two Tobis. The one with long hair was Madara... have we ever seen him use his MS/Kamui? The one with shorter hair is the current Tobi we know. Nothing else makes sense, especially since Madara knows about the fake him. 

    Maybe they're working together so they can get more done. Which begs the question... if that was really Madara controlling the MIzukage, who killed him and how? Was it because he wasn't used to his Rinnegan yet? And, did he have one eye because of Izanagi? It'd explain the mask even more. 

    Doesn't make sense how Tobi was able to make Kisame think he was Madara, though. Maybe Madara has the same kind of scars or Tobi disguised his face?
     
    There are 3 Tobis, hear me out first.

    Kisame saw the LH Tobi (LH=long haired) but his face was hidden to us that means he probably had no mask on at that time (that could mean that the face he had was NOT Madaras/ us the readers + people in the manga were already aware on how Madara looked like).

    LH Tobi told Kisame he's Madara hence he recognized SH Tobi (SH=short haired) as Madara again. 

    Given by that, LH and SH Tobi looked at one point close to Madara = Izunas brother being Tobi (1)?, the real Madara that we saw with Itachi was Tobi (2)(Why is Number 2 Madara you may ask? Well, the mask was there not just to hide his identity but also to continue his plan for someone else as to take over as Madara and that means Tobi (3) = Obito? 

    That Itachi/Madara meeting was after the Kyuubi attack. That means Madara was still alive at that point and so was SH Tobi/Obito. (It looks like Obito was the one that attacked Konoha).

    So Madara had already established someone in that case Obito, to play the role as Tobi.

    Obito was the one killing Madara?

    Jesus.... my head burns!....
    Last edited by TobiOrNotTobi; September 01, 2012 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    I don't see three Tobi as being impossible. THe original Tobi could have been Madara, while the second Tobi could have been Madara's protege or someone Madara recruited to work with him. He and second Tobi or second Tobi could have chosen the third Tobi and trained him.

    I don't think not showing the face makes the long-haired Tobi not Madara. The face could have been hidden as suspense. Same reason why Kishi didn't show Naruto was the one attacking Muu until the next chapter - to make us doubt what was shown. We didn't know how the current Madara, decades after his reported death, looked like. Was he as young looking? Wrinkly? Would we have recognized him?

    Both Tobi that revealed themselves to Kisame could have looked the same. Kisame's not an idiot, I doubt he'd have believed Tobi was Madara otherwise without solid proof. Another reason why Tobi could be Izuna is because Izuna looked a lot like Madara and was on nearly equal footing with him in terms of power. He'd also know more about Madara that he can pretend to say everything firsthand. Madara could have also told Izuna about Hashirama's cells.

    The fake Madara killing the real Madara could have been part of teh plan. I doubt Madara otherwise would have had annoyed reaction to Tobi instead of pissed/betrayed. That is, if he knew who killed him.

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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    fact remains tobi used kamui against madara...meaning he had obito's body

    things that need to be explained :
    meeting with kisame (he would need to have madara's face since the guy has a 100ft momument of his face)
    relationship with nagato
    relationship with obito
    how did god damn obito manage to fight minato after just a year
    why didnt minato recognize his student
    why is this stupid obito not using shinra tensei to blow away any coming rasengan or absorb them ? he showed knowlege of the rinnegan when he had 5 paths of pain summoned before naruto took them out
    about 100 other things , im too lazy to post
    Last edited by tousendrinksbleach; September 01, 2012 at 05:22 PM.
    THE UCHIHA LOGIC:
    "brother follows hiw on path? destroy konoha " uchiha sasuke
    "the village wants you not to interfere with politics? coup-d'etat" uchiha fugaku
    "coup-d'etat on the way? obliterate entire clan" uchiha itachi
    "clan wants to make peace? destroy everyone everywhere" uchiha madara
    "10 years old crush dead?infinite tsukyumi" uchiha obito



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    Re: Two Tobi's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    that's why I strongly believe that tobi indeed was madara back then, untill kishi changed his mind ...
    actually, given the hairstyle i doubt it was ever madara

    i strongly think it was izuna

    it's all just conjecture though, and kishi could just decide to retcon again anytime

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