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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
My first post/thread. I haven't seen anyone on any forums or sites talk about this but this place seems to be the best Naruto discussions.
First off I'll list the different Tobi's.
Short hair Tribal Flames
Short hair Swirl
Long hair Tribal Flames
I think these are all the different ways we have see Tobi... So I'm starting to guess there are two unless Kishi goofed up on the timeline or I'm wrong about this.
It's all around the Minato vs Tobi and the Uchiha Massacre.
The Tobi that fought Minato was most likely Obito due to the fact of Tobi's ability. I've notice that he was young too. Watch the anime. You might can tell he was young which I've always thought it was Obito even before he was revealed. Note that this was short haired tribal flame mask.
I'm guessing the Uchiha Massacre happened after this. Now check back to the flashback of Itachi talking to Tobi. It's long haired flame mask. Tobi is a lot taller than Itachi. Also, it's long haired tribal mask Tobi, the same one we saw that controlled Mizukage.
Wouldn't it be short haired tribal Tobi that Itachi would of found. I don't think the Long haired Tobi would be Madara because Madaras hair is too large and the pattern doesn't really match Madara. Madara kept the same hair style till the day he died... And Edo Madara is proof.
If it was all Obito.. Then he would of had to cut his hair, then grow it out, then cut it again. I highly doubt he would do that because it seems Kishi was keeping the characters consistent with looks.
This is probably off the main topic, but I've seen people talk about the wall of Sharingans. Has anyone ever thought that those Sharingans are those of the dead Uchiha from the Massacre? It would benefit Tobi for more chances for forbidden techniques for the price of losing a Sharingan. It would fit since Obito only had one eye and used the ones from the Massacre for Izunagi or the other forbidden technique.
But I agree that it seems to be Obito. He has the same eye ability, and his arms also melted.
Of course, since Kirigakure was knows as the "Bloody Mist" at the time, this happened before Zabuza graduated at age of 9, or fucking 4 years before Kakashi Gaiden.
Last edited by Fox666; September 01, 2012 at 04:34 AM.
obito vs kakashi with naruto and co in a forest
"i'll play with you children later"
it could be two physical tobis, but spiritually just one person. izuna maybe
There is a lot misconstrued as plotholes lately that actually has been explained, but was just missed. For me the Obito reveal isn't the plothole, the fact he did an almost 180 turn in his drive and demeanor. And if there is just one Tobi or two Tobi's with one being the real Madara before dying will determine how this turn happened.
back then, kishi hadn't even decided there would be a world balance of bijuus shared amongst the hidden villages
look at how jiraiya is describing things
kishi just retcons whatever he wants
I still think there WERE two Tobis. The one with long hair was Madara... have we ever seen him use his MS/Kamui? The one with shorter hair is the current Tobi we know. Nothing else makes sense, especially since Madara knows about the fake him.
Maybe they're working together so they can get more done. Which begs the question... if that was really Madara controlling the MIzukage, who killed him and how? Was it because he wasn't used to his Rinnegan yet? And, did he have one eye because of Izanagi? It'd explain the mask even more.
Doesn't make sense how Tobi was able to make Kisame think he was Madara, though. Maybe Madara has the same kind of scars or Tobi disguised his face?
Of course Madara wasn't old or was missing his eyes when Kabuto revived him, but Kabuto said he made Madara better than in his "golden ages" and certain experiments in his body.
Could be that the long-hair Tobi made himself look more like the current Tobi just in case. If he really was Madara, then he probably realized he wouldn't live long and wanted to make sure people believed the short-haired Tobi was Madara. Madara certainly knew about fake Madara, so he'd have to been alive, at least during the third war and end of it, unless there was another TObi that worked with Madara. X_x So we could have had three Tobi.
While the old age makes sense, Tobi and Itachi did say Madara's chakra was one of the strongest, even among Uchiha. It was also probably why he was able to live so long, so I'm not really sure if old age really killed him. Of course, Mito was dying of old age, and she's an Uzumaki, known for their longevity. If he did use Izanagi though, I don't see how Madara could have given Nagato two eyes as he should have had only one EMS remaining. Plus, if Madara did die after the third world war, he couldn't have given Nagato his eyes as Madara himself said he awakened his Rinnegan shortly before his death.
Kabuto revived Madara in his prime and added some stuff like Hashirama's cells and probably had something to do with Madara being able to use his Rinnegan despite being revived in his prime. Plus, right now, it's a fact that Madara survived his known final fight with Hashirama. HOwever, it is unknown when he actually died.
If Madara was the original TObi, then it was probably to hide his other eye that was sealed away so people didn't think he was weak. For Tobi, the other eye could have been for Izanagi and as result, useless to him since Kamui would keep him safe.
I don't think that's it, otherwise why would Kisame easily believe a bandaged person? I don't think the current Tobi had a bandaged face either. Though, most Uchiha do look alike, no?
There are 3 Tobis, hear me out first.
Kisame saw the LH Tobi (LH=long haired) but his face was hidden to us that means he probably had no mask on at that time (that could mean that the face he had was NOT Madaras/ us the readers + people in the manga were already aware on how Madara looked like).
LH Tobi told Kisame he's Madara hence he recognized SH Tobi (SH=short haired) as Madara again.
Given by that, LH and SH Tobi looked at one point close to Madara = Izunas brother being Tobi (1)?, the real Madara that we saw with Itachi was Tobi (2)(Why is Number 2 Madara you may ask? Well, the mask was there not just to hide his identity but also to continue his plan for someone else as to take over as Madara and that means Tobi (3) = Obito?
That Itachi/Madara meeting was after the Kyuubi attack. That means Madara was still alive at that point and so was SH Tobi/Obito. (It looks like Obito was the one that attacked Konoha).
So Madara had already established someone in that case Obito, to play the role as Tobi.
Obito was the one killing Madara?
Jesus.... my head burns!....
Last edited by TobiOrNotTobi; September 01, 2012 at 01:19 PM.
I don't see three Tobi as being impossible. THe original Tobi could have been Madara, while the second Tobi could have been Madara's protege or someone Madara recruited to work with him. He and second Tobi or second Tobi could have chosen the third Tobi and trained him.
I don't think not showing the face makes the long-haired Tobi not Madara. The face could have been hidden as suspense. Same reason why Kishi didn't show Naruto was the one attacking Muu until the next chapter - to make us doubt what was shown. We didn't know how the current Madara, decades after his reported death, looked like. Was he as young looking? Wrinkly? Would we have recognized him?
Both Tobi that revealed themselves to Kisame could have looked the same. Kisame's not an idiot, I doubt he'd have believed Tobi was Madara otherwise without solid proof. Another reason why Tobi could be Izuna is because Izuna looked a lot like Madara and was on nearly equal footing with him in terms of power. He'd also know more about Madara that he can pretend to say everything firsthand. Madara could have also told Izuna about Hashirama's cells.
The fake Madara killing the real Madara could have been part of teh plan. I doubt Madara otherwise would have had annoyed reaction to Tobi instead of pissed/betrayed. That is, if he knew who killed him.
fact remains tobi used kamui against madara...meaning he had obito's body
things that need to be explained :
meeting with kisame (he would need to have madara's face since the guy has a 100ft momument of his face)
relationship with nagato
relationship with obito
how did god damn obito manage to fight minato after just a year
why didnt minato recognize his student
why is this stupid obito not using shinra tensei to blow away any coming rasengan or absorb them ? he showed knowlege of the rinnegan when he had 5 paths of pain summoned before naruto took them out
about 100 other things , im too lazy to post
Last edited by tousendrinksbleach; September 01, 2012 at 05:22 PM.