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Thread: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Since two of the protagonists use the Sharingan, and Kakashi or Itachi said in Part I that the Uchiha was the strongest clan, it isn't a surprise that the Sharingan takes a important hole in the series.

    But what bothers me is how much the author extended the Sharingan power. Supposedly the Mangekyou Sharingan is something extremely hard to obtain, but every characters with a Sharingan that played a role in the story also obtained the Mangekyou Sharingan, and it seems Kakashi, Itachi or Shisui managed to have gained it without killing someone else.

    I should mention that Susano'o has also has also been used by a few characters, despite supposed to be extremely rare for a Sharingan eye. Later Danzou got a body covered by Sharingans, Izanagi was introduced, and on top of that it was revealed that the Rinnengan is actually Mangekyoy 2.0.

    But I find absurd how Hashirama's DNA has been used over and over again by many character. Yamato, Danzou, Tobi, Madara... they all have Hashirama's cells, and Tobi also used it to create the Zetsus army.

    As it has been posted before, look everything that can be gained with it:
    - An almost unlimited amount of Chakra;
    - Wood Release kekkei genkai;
    - Make Izanagi last longer (I am not even counting Izanagi itself since it takes "only Senju" heritage);
    - Make the Sharingan into a Rinnengan;
    - Cut the Kotoamatsukami cooldown from 10 years to several hours;
    And who knows what more can be gained with it?

    And if Orochimaru somehow managed to have found Hashirama's DNA sample, it raises the question of why all armies aren't desperately looking for it and putting on all of the soldiers...?
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Kishi has definitely overused the talents of the Uchiha and Senju. I wish he had developed as much the abilities of the clan of protagonist.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1035AMC View Post
    Kishi has definitely overused the talents of the Uchiha and Senju. I wish he had developed as much the abilities of the clan of protagonist.
    he did

    by extension to the senju

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    he did

    by extension to the senju
    By "the Senju" do you mean Hashirama specifically? Because, he definitely did that.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member scandalous''s Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Well to be fair. Madara and izuna lived decades before sasuke and itachi. And only they out of 1000's or even 100 of thousands of uchiha managed to awaken their mangekyou. Now we have sasuke, Itachi and shisui, who again, were among 100's of uchiha. It being extremely rare was due to the fact that an uchiha had to be a master of the sharingan and they have to go through rigorous training to even qualify to get it something all afore mentioned uchiha have gone through. Itachi, madara, izuna, shisui and sasuke are probably the 5 strongest uchiha in history among 100,000's or millions of uchiha who have ever lived. When you take that number you can pretty much say it's rare. We also do not know the requirements to obtain it, so we can't judge yet on how difficult it is actually is.

    Hashirama's cell's just tie in to the story due to the fact that he seemed to be the closest to the sage of the six paths dna wise. At least on the senju side.

    All the things you mentioned tie into each other, at least most of them do. Just see it like this. Imagine that all the techniques shown by the uchiha are incomplete. You fuse uchiha dna together with senju (in this case hashirama's) and the powers they had individually complement, improve or complete each other when put together.

    Not to mention, most of the characters you mentioned are tied together with one person, orochimaru. He created yamato, if I remember correctly he worked on danzo's arm. He and kabuto figured out the theory behind the rinnegan and kabuto implemented that in madara, and I'm not surprised if he worked on or with tobi as well.
    Last edited by scandalous'; September 02, 2012 at 10:59 PM.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    What I find hilarious is that many Uchihas awakened the Sharingan and could theorically obtain both MS and EMS while only one Senju obtained its best powers.

    If you ask me it would've been better if the Sharingan was treated like Mokuton, as in one of the rarest power in the Narutoverse.
    It would explain why it is so haxed, and it would give further hype for characters like Itachi and Sasuke:
    imagine Itachi awakening his Sharingan when the last one recorded was Madara Uchiha, and then Sasuke following in his footsteps. It would also explain why Madara would've bothered with a talentless buffoon like Obito ( another great thing, the deadlast of the Uchihas awakening their rarest bloodline ) and it would explain Kakashi's Sharingan all the same.

    Instead the Sharingan is the cheapest tool ever, and Hashirama's cells are the answer to everyone's problem

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    What I find hilarious is that many Uchihas awakened the Sharingan and could theorically obtain both MS and EMS while only one Senju obtained its best powers.

    If you ask me it would've been better if the Sharingan was treated like Mokuton, as in one of the rarest power in the Narutoverse.
    It would explain why it is so haxed, and it would give further hype for characters like Itachi and Sasuke:
    imagine Itachi awakening his Sharingan when the last one recorded was Madara Uchiha, and then Sasuke following in his footsteps. It would also explain why Madara would've bothered with a talentless buffoon like Obito ( another great thing, the deadlast of the Uchihas awakening their rarest bloodline ) and it would explain Kakashi's Sharingan all the same.

    Instead the Sharingan is the cheapest tool ever, and Hashirama's cells are the answer to everyone's problem
    At the start of the series, the Uchiha clan was supposedly so weakened that even awakening the Sharingan was a rare thing among clan members, let alone the Mangekyou, I'm wondering if Kishi forgot all about that, all these super Jutsu's that are supposedly never seen, yet have explanations that imply most Uchihas could use MS and all those Jutsus.

    What amuses me is the Uzumaki clan sound like what the Senju are suppose to be, when Hashirama was the only known blood Senju with any real usefulness.
    Last edited by Xiraiya; September 03, 2012 at 05:57 AM.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    At the start of the series, the Uchiha clan was supposedly so weakened that even awakening the Sharingan was a rare thing among clan members, let alone the Mangekyou, I'm wondering if Kishi forgot all about that, all these super Jutsu's that are supposedly never seen, yet have explanations that imply most Uchihas could use MS and all those Jutsus.

    What amuses me is the Uzumaki clan sound like what the Senju are suppose to be, when Hashirama was the only known blood Senju with any real usefulness.
    Exactly, Uzumakis are special ( Special chakra, high vitality, immense chakra capacity, special powers ) while Senju are mostly exceptionally talented, yet their body have no redeeming features, of course with the exception of Hashirama.
    Still don't know why Kishi gave Senju that relevance when only one Senju has any redeeming feature.

    As for Uchihas, the only moment when it was rare was in the Wave arc.
    After that every fodder Uchiha was showed to have a Sharingan, hell back in the days there was an army of Sharingan users.
    He didn't forgot imho, he simply knows the Sharingan is the most popular Gekkei Kenkai ability in Naruto and he continuosly uses it as a deus ex machina to resolve the plot.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    The thing is that we don't actually know much about the Senju. Most mentions of the Senju are very specific to Hashirama himself. The Senju haven't been particularly relevent, Hashirama has. The only confirmed Senju, at least among the living, is Tsunade. And her status as a member of the Senju isn't portrayed as even vaguely significant. It's always the fact that she's the granddaughter of Hashirama. The suggestion has been that the Senju have superior physical traits, stamina, and are just immensely talented in each of the arts. Unfortunately, since we've been bombarded with Uchihas we haven't seen much of the Senjus that would indicate that they were, on average, able to compete with the Uchiha. Although, the Senjus that we have seen have been shown to be immensely powerful. Five Senjus have been specifically named; Hashirama, Tobirama, Tsunade, Toka, and Nawaki. Three attained the position of Hokage. Toka was supposedly known as a talented genjutsu user. And considering that she was likely to have come up against the Uchiha, that must mean something. The only other, Nawaki, was just a kid at the time of his death. The strength of the Clans probably came down to just a few individuals, just as it is with the Villages. Early on, the base Sharingan was portrayed as something rare, and something powerful. But in the manga as it is, a regular Sharingan wouldn't be enough on its own to even get you close to the elites of the Villages. You've a few monsters, and then everyone else just makes up the numbers. The Uchiha and Senju were the most powerful because they had the likes of Madara, Izuna, Hashirama, and Tobirama. Only a few other people in the clans were probably even remotely significant.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    well i guess all of the senjus had great chakra supply hence the riddukou body ... but only hashirama was able to use mokuton ... at least that's the way I see it ... I mean Tsunade has ridiculous amout of chakra too
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    well i guess all of the senjus had great chakra supply hence the riddukou body ... but only hashirama was able to use mokuton ... at least that's the way I see it ... I mean Tsunade has ridiculous amout of chakra too
    and no one from uchiha was able to use 6th pathe , shared eye , and other Rinnegan ability ..... and Hashirama had some hax power that was so strong to make him a kegend besides Rucckudo ...

    well , Uchiha need to awaken their power in war and only some of them were able to it and make it strong , and when they awaken MS , then they begine to lose the power along their Sharingan and eyes !!!!

    but most of senju had super strong body by the day of their birth !!
    خداحافظ

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    well i guess all of the senjus had great chakra supply hence the riddukou body ... but only hashirama was able to use mokuton ... at least that's the way I see it ... I mean Tsunade has ridiculous amout of chakra too
    Uzumaki have an insane chakra amount too ( well not Karin, but she has special chakra all the same ), and plus they have unrivaled stamina, vitality and often their chakra have special properties.
    What Xiraiya and I said is that Uzumaki's trait are basically what Senju's traits should be

    ---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    and no one from uchiha was able to use 6th pathe , shared eye , and other Rinnegan ability ..... and Hashirama had some hax power that was so strong to make him a kegend besides Rucckudo ...

    well , Uchiha need to awaken their power in war and only some of them were able to it and make it strong , and when they awaken MS , then they begine to lose the power along their Sharingan and eyes !!!!

    but most of senju had super strong body by the day of their birth !!
    Awaken their power in war?
    Also wanna compare Senju heritage and Uchiha heritage?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Uzumaki have an insane chakra amount too ( well not Karin, but she has special chakra all the same ), and plus they have unrivaled stamina, vitality and often their chakra have special properties.
    What Xiraiya and I said is that Uzumaki's trait are basically what Senju's traits should be

    ---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------



    Awaken their power in war?
    Also wanna compare Senju heritage and Uchiha heritage?
    well , both Sasuke and obito awaken their sharingan in war .... Uchiha massacre was more than a war ...

    well , Uchiha had better ninja but it is because Tsuande can't using any useful technique , not because uchiha was so haxed ( well ,they was haxed but not only because of their eyes .... )

    and the last generation of Uchiha was an especial generation .... they had 4 MS only in an generation , when the clan suppose to become weak and small ....
    خداحافظ

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Xiraiya's Avatar
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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Uzumaki have an insane chakra amount too ( well not Karin, but she has special chakra all the same ), and plus they have unrivaled stamina, vitality and often their chakra have special properties.
    What Xiraiya and I said is that Uzumaki's trait are basically what Senju's traits should be
    My theory is the Younger son of Rikudo, had two Children, one which continued the Senju line and ended up with Hashirama being the only real useful puzzle piece in the Rikudo Power plans, and the other which spawned the Uzumaki line, somehow keeping the blood very strong in their line.

    My issue here is Hashirama had an Uzumaki wife, they obviously had a child(ren) which resulted in Tsunade's birth, now she is no doubt powerful, but what truly baffles me is, if Hashirama was THAT powerful, skill wise and genetically, while also having an Uzumaki wife, what happened to Tsunade's parents? How is it we know nothing of the child of the all powerful first Hokage, implying that said child had been killed like fodder at some point in history.

    Going by what we know, there should have been one hell of an endurance monster born at some point.
    Last edited by Xiraiya; September 03, 2012 at 10:53 AM.

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    Re: Sharingans and Harashima's DNA, elements that have been used to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well , both Sasuke and obito awaken their sharingan in war .... Uchiha massacre was more than a war ...

    well , Uchiha had better ninja but it is because Tsuande can't using any useful technique , not because uchiha was so haxed ( well ,they was haxed but not only because of their eyes .... )

    and the last generation of Uchiha was an especial generation .... they had 4 MS only in an generation , when the clan suppose to become weak and small ....
    Sasuke and Obito aren't the clan as a whole, Itachi unlocked it at 8, well past the only war he fought, just to make an example.
    They are haxed precisely because of their eyes, the Sharingan is the haxest Gekkei Kenkai there is.
    Even the Rin'negan is inferior to the Sharingan, a measly 3-tomoe Sharingan can alter reality just to name one hax.
    Do you imagine the rage if a Byakugan could alter reality, just to name one?

    The clan wasn't small, they planned to conquer Konoha, a village that has, according to this war, at least 10000 active ninjas.
    And Itachi said that Uchiha killed their best friends to obtain the Mangekyo for generations, and that they used Izanagi and Izanami since they fought indipendently as a clan, way before the villages were formed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    My theory is the Younger son of Rikudo, had two Children, one which continued the Senju line and ended up with Hashirama being the only real useful puzzle piece in the Rikudo Power plans, and the other which spawned the Uzumaki line, somehow keeping the blood very strong in their line.

    My issue here is Hashirama had an Uzumaki wife, they obviously had a child(ren) which resulted in Tsunade's birth, now she is no doubt powerful, but what truly baffles me is, if Hashirama was THAT powerful, skill wise and genetically, while also having an Uzumaki wife, what happened to Tsunade's parents? How is it we know nothing of the child of the all powerful first Hokage, implying that said child had been killed like fodder at some point in history.

    Going by what we know, there should have been one hell of an endurance monster born at some point.
    Pretty believable, and what I believe as well.

    Tsunade's father generation was pretty shady, we know nothing on the older guys, example?
    Hiruzen's father, Sasuke Sarutobi, which according to Mikoto was a great ninja, just to name one. Or Hiruzen's son that fathered Konohamaru. Imho Kishi doesn't have neither the time nor does he want to expand his story that way. Hell even Kakashi's father, which was admittedly superior to the Sannin, was only mentioned for, what, 2-3 chapters?

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