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Thread: Broken bankais

  1. #1
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Broken bankais

    Now I KNOW kubo is pulling random crap.

    So mayuri says bankais can't be repaired.

    What the hell do you make of this???

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v17/c143/7.html

    He just pulled a random, arbitrary reason that goes against the very notion of continuity just to force ichigo use his Quincy powers, which I have no doubt he'll be able to master in literally a second.
    Last edited by SuperSaiyan4; November 14, 2012 at 03:08 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Broken bankais

    And he told you exactly why Renji's isn't fixed completely.

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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by Nieuwsgierig View Post
    And he told you exactly why Renji's isn't fixed completely.
    He said that his bankai did not retain all his blades. His bankai was literally ground to dust. I would say that mayuri was making a massive understatement.

    Not to mention that mayuri literally blew his own bankai up in the hueco mundo arc.

    Moreover, reasons as to why a shikai can be fixed and not a bankai are so convoluted, in addition to the rules regarding which bankais can be repaired and which cannot

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Kuchikido's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Mayuri's bankai is a living creature, he can modify it quite freely, so it does not apply to him.

    Hitsugaya also got his "wings" cut, still his bankai is fine, as it was only an accessory. It is the blade that is crucial.

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    Repairing bankais

    Spoiler maybe? For those that did not read 516

    Now I KNOW kubo is pulling crap out of his nether regions


    Mayuri says that a broken bankai cannot be repaired and komamura's is the exception, and that renji's lost all the blades that were broken by Byakuya.

    Then what the heck is this
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v17/c143/7.html

    It is literally ground to dust with the head piece barely intact. There's no mentioning of the possibility that renji's bankai just got weaker; the only consequence that it got shorter, which seems very unlikely.

    Not to mention that mayuri blew his own bankai up in hueco mundo and got it split in half by Uryu.

    This is kubo spitting at the very notion of continuity, bringing up some contrived, arbitrary reason to force ichigo to use his Quincy powers, which I do not doubt he will master over the course of a millisecond.

    WHAT THE CRAP

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Repairing bankais

    The thing is ichigo's bankai was techniquely still only running on borrowed powers, he needs to reestablish his own reistu again
    Spoiler show

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Repairing bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    Spoiler maybe? For those that did not read 516

    Now I KNOW kubo is pulling crap out of his nether regions


    Mayuri says that a broken bankai cannot be repaired and komamura's is the exception, and that renji's lost all the blades that were broken by Byakuya.

    Then what the heck is this
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v17/c143/7.html

    It is literally ground to dust with the head piece barely intact. There's no mentioning of the possibility that renji's bankai just got weaker; the only consequence that it got shorter, which seems very unlikely.

    Not to mention that mayuri blew his own bankai up in hueco mundo and got it split in half by Uryu.

    This is kubo spitting at the very notion of continuity, bringing up some contrived, arbitrary reason to force ichigo to use his Quincy powers, which I do not doubt he will master over the course of a millisecond.

    WHAT THE CRAP
    did you not read byakuya statement afterwards...renjis bankai disappeared...as far as breaking his bankai ...renjis bankai is not blades...it is that long snake made of many blocks which can break and combine and the fur clothing which he wears...to destroy it all you will have to break every block and burn the fur around him...
    about mayuris bankai he told ichigo that he remodelled it not repaired... during his fight with syazel he broke his sword after he changed back to normal state of his zan as a punishment for his zan betraying him...
    this is not even a topic worth discussing coz it all makes sense...

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted hatsuharupeace's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Let me make a hypothesis. Let's say that bankai is a physical manifestation of a zanpakutou's soul. What makes me say this? One of the key moments is when Renji gains his bankai. Right before he is able to activate for the first time, he has an one-on-one dream sequence with his sword's soul, which lead to the activation of his bankai. Same with Ichigo's, the soul from the dream sequence share many similarities with the abilities of the sword, if that makes any sense.

    What happens when you destroy something physical? It breaks, naturally. Can you put it back together? In most cases, no. This is the same for bankai. Assuming that it's the physical manifestation of a zanpakutou's soul, it should therefore be theoretically impossible to repair it once again. Note that I say theoretically, because from the latest chapter, it is clear that there are methods of fixing one's sword, however, the consequences are severe. Either it's repaired, or it's useless. Or you modify it.

    Which brings me back to the point of physical manifestation. How would Mayuri modify his bankai? Kuchikido mentioned that his bankai is a living creature, which is true, however, he is only modifying the structure of his bankai, not the whole bankai itself. It's like how Byakuya is able to change the form of his bankai; it can be adjusted, it just can't be broken.

    As for why shikai blades can be repaired? Because the soul is still intact. As long as it has a medium to reside in, it should theoritically be able to be repaired in shikai.

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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4 View Post
    He said that his bankai did not retain all his blades. His bankai was literally ground to dust. I would say that mayuri was making a massive understatement.

    Not to mention that mayuri literally blew his own bankai up in the hueco mundo arc.

    Moreover, reasons as to why a shikai can be fixed and not a bankai are so convoluted, in addition to the rules regarding which bankais can be repaired and which cannot
    actually the sword that was ground to dust was not even shikai. the bankai had blades destroyed and eventually reverted. that sword is not renjis bankai- the cool snake like thing with the giant skull is the bankai- He said near the beginning of your link that when the bankai disappears against the users will- so right there you know beyond just appearance that the bankai was dissapated and he was using the normal not even shikai state- because renjis shikai state has a cool multiblade serrated look.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    @0xellos...He has a valid point, it's an issue of proper continuity, not everyone can be sheeple lol

    Maybe it's an attempt at retcon...obviously in that picture Renji's bankai is obliterated so techniquely Renji should have been in the same boat Ichigo is now.

    Last edited by cracker; November 15, 2012 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: Broken bankais

    It all makes sense to me.

    A bankai is the full expression of a zanpakutou. It's like getting a scar, if you will. Or losing an arm and getting a prosthetic. So, if it's broken and can be repaired, it won't be at the same way that it was originally.

    Also, let's look at this:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v35/c306/10.html

    "As long as the handle remains, I can easily recreate it."

    Let's look at Renji's "obliterated" bankai.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v17/c143/7.html

    Neat, the handle is still there.

    Let's just assume that what Mayuri said applies to bankai as well.
    In any case, the point is that once a bankai is broken, it can never be repaired to its original state.
    Furtheremore, in all of the cases Mayuri mentioned (Ikkaku, Renji, Komamura, and Ichigo), the handle was intact.

    That's my two cents. We might not like it (I personally am fine with it), but we have to take Mayuri's word as fact now.
    Last edited by Exodi; November 15, 2012 at 03:07 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Regret's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    It's not really a retcon. From the way Mayuri described it Renji and Ichigo are in the same boat. As far as Mayuri knows after a bankai breaks it can't come back in the exact same form. I'm pretty sure he's expecting Ichigo to have to undergo changes like Renji did after getting his bankai back. The change might not be all that visually different but some kind of change is expected.

    O fragments of light, strike down mine enemy!

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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    It all makes sense to me.

    A bankai is the full expression of a zanpakutou. It's like getting a scar, if you will. Or losing an arm and getting a prosthetic. So, if it's broken and can be repaired, it won't be at the same way that it was originally.

    Also, let's look at this:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v35/c306/10.html

    "As long as the handle remains, I can easily recreate it."

    Let's look at Renji's "obliterated" bankai.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v17/c143/7.html

    Neat, the handle is still there.

    Let's just assume that what Mayuri said applies to bankai as well.
    In any case, the point is that once a bankai is broken, it can never be repaired to its original state.
    Furtheremore, in all of the cases Mayuri mentioned (Ikkaku, Renji, Komamura, and Ichigo), the handle was intact.

    That's my two cents. We might not like it (I personally am fine with it), but we have to take Mayuri's word as fact now.

    What does Mayuri "modified" bankai have to do with Renji's "obliterated" one? And either way, what applies for Mayuri might not be the case for Renji...look at Komamura who's apparently the exception to the rule.

    Ichigo's hilt is now intact but he's still in trouble. Not all shinigami have a hilt to hold on to in bankai...Byakuya's default state has nothing but millions and millions of blades.

    Like I said the guy who started the thread has a valid point...and since this material is more recent it really could be an attempt at a retcon. Who knows, wouldn't be the first it has happened.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    What does Mayuri "modified" bankai have to do with Renji's "obliterated" one? And either way, what applies for Mayuri might not be the case for Renji...look at Komamura who's apparently the exception to the rule.

    Ichigo's hilt is now intact but he's still in trouble. Not all shinigami have a hilt to hold on to in bankai...Byakuya's default state has nothing but millions and millions of blades.

    Like I said the guy who started the thread has a valid point...and since this material is more recent it really could be an attempt at a retcon. Who knows, wouldn't be the first it has happened.
    They were both broken at one point or another, and thus are now not the same as they originally were.

    Learning new information is not a retcon to me.

    Changing what been established as fact before is. Mayuri (Kubo) has not done that. He's only expanded on what was already there.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Well, based on what mayuri said actually repairing a bankai does seem impossible. Its not like mayuri implied ichigo's bankai could be restored to some other form, what he implies is that once a bankai is broken it will never go back to being 100% of what it was. He mentions no exceptions to the rule in general and no overall solution for ichigo. He makes it pretty clear that once ichigo fixes his bankai it won't grant him the speed or offense it used to or in very general terms it just plain won't be the same as before. As far as mayuri is concerned and what he actually tells ichigo, ichigo has to bear with having a permanently maimed bankai.

    Of course, the implication of this is that breaking bankai unlike breaking shikai causes deep intrinsic damage to the actual soul of the shinigami in question which is in itself both relevant and interesting as far as plot goes.

    Before going further into this I can't help but wonder if mayuri was telling the truth to ichigo. It could be perfectly true that mayuri modified his bankai and renji and ikkaku have not yet recovered from what happened to their bankais however mayuri does have every reason to lie to ichigo and if anything he is insane enough to do it. Could it be that this crucial piece of information is his revenge? Mayuri is the sort to modify his bankai anyways and as far as we know it is the perfect type of bankai to modify (being a living creature and all). Renji and ikkaku are both relatively weak shinigami with immature bankai, perhaps it is not that they can't fix their bankai but rather they are simply too weak to do it.

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