Madara wins. He is the PERFECT counter to anything.
What Tobi goes intangible? Madara activates his chakra shield and cancels the intangibility as belive it or not his ability to turn intangible is nothing more then a jutsu. Rinnegan can stop jutsus. So Obito's main defence is gone.
Kamui? Same as above. Just activate the chakra shield and stop the jutsu... Or go Susano for protection...
As Madara himself stated... To take him down you need to run in and PUNCH the guy... Tobi is going to have to fight Madara with just about his fists.. He can't win..
The GM statue would be trapped in roots or have to deal with that HUGE Susano from Madara... Not a chanse.
If Tobi has his Pein realms here... Its more of a fight as he would need to first go trough them but Madara defenetly can.
Tobi is in the other dimension but:
Tobi can see, so light DOES NOT pass trough his eyes.
Gravity works on him.
He can walk on the ground but is covered inside a bijudama and all his body is on the other side...
So is he really in the other dimension? I am sure he can probably hear to, what are the chanses his ears are working to? Big enough if you ask me...Hell he can even SPEAK and people can hear him when intangible. Obviously he is INTERACTING with the gas around himself for the sound to propagate. So sound waves to? Sounds travels trough a medium that here would be gas (air)? So air is actualy not going trough him? So in essence the polen could be effecting him?
Do i need to add that he can also use jutsus on this plane when he is intangible? How about half his head existing here and the other half on the other side?!?!?!
Is not only this. Kishi messed up badly with his abilities. We know that:
1-He can't attack when he is intangible as he is... Intangible.
2-He can turn intangible only parts of himself at a time...
So do you see a problem with the above 2 things? Why can't he turn his torso intangible and then attack with his fists? Or a Kunai in his hand? Makes no sense.
Also its obvious some of himself is left behind as he can interact with this side when inside his dimension.
Big crep all around Tobi. Expecialy considering the last chapters...
Last edited by xXan; September 07, 2012 at 06:53 AM.
Took him out by suprise? No, he had enough time to activate his jutsu and even did his remark "it's not possible!". He clearly knew what was coming at him. How on EARTH is it possible for Sasuke to set him on flames and not for Madara? A clone behind Obito appears and boils his spine to a pile of ash. It's THAT simple. But there's something we do agree on. Kishi's logic is not logic, it's something different. Something we mortals will never understand.Quote:
What is this? Fact remains. Obito has nothing to touch Madara with inside his Susanoo. NOTHING. Madara can just take a nap in there while his clones just keep Obito wasting his chakra fending them off.Quote:
I won't even argue regarding this, actually. The chapters showed everything. Obito took on Minato, Itachi's Amaterasu trap, 2 Danzo lapdogs, Konan and now Kid Kakashi's Kindergarden (according to Obito himself ). He managed to get hit with his "super" jutsu you guys defend so much, and even managed to lose a Kyuubi and DIE once(actually, counting Amaterasu hit, that's two). Madara with his screwing around made FIVE KAGES look like utter incompetent fools, while Obito got his ass kicked by ONE. What kind of silly comparison is this?
Last edited by IChallengeYou!; September 07, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
I think its more of a time game to be honest. Can Madara make some wood Bushin or a forest before Tobi uses Kamui on him? If yes Madara spends the whole battle hiding(from what? no intel) while his clones do the work. If no then he gets sucked into a new dimension. Madara is overall better than Tobi but tobi has a really hax jutsu.
This would have been a better fight if this was current Tobi with his 6 paths and Gedo Mazo. At least that way we can consider factors other than can he hit him or not?
Tobi can move through any object, therefore i see no reason why he cannot invade Madaras personal space.
And this Rinnengan cancelling nonsense, are we to believe that it can absorb S/T? If so, then proof.
Once again, Tobi's only intangible when he's not trying to absorb something, or his time limit hasn't been met. Becuase Madara can spam clones, hide inside of his Mokuton, aswell as create a neverending onslaught of katon projectiles and iron-hard roots, he's capable of attacking until the time limit is done, or simply forcing Obito to reveal all of his abilities against his clones until such time that he knows how to beat his Kamui.
So again, I'm sticking with Madara by way of constant offensive until Obito goofs and gets run through by a bunch of roots.
And unless Madara knows about the time limit, i dont see how that would ever help him. They both have some crazy katons and seem to have great chakra capacity, i dont think one will trump the other in a spamming fest. And Madara hiding in his mokoton is no different from him hiding in a house, Tobi can still phase through it.
Could tobi with both his ms possibly be able to produce a black hole no jutsu where nothing escapes its suck and whats the differnce betweenobitos left and rigjt eye powers , but we cant say what it is cuz kakashi doesnt have a uchiha body so he isnt capable of using it to its maximum capabilites
he was in his hideout, with a wounded 16 years old that posed no threat.
Suddenly that eye morphs to Mangekyo for no reason at all, firing an Amaterasu at close range. It was totally unexpected. In a fight, something like that will not happen, since he would have his MS constantly turned on, and would constantly be on alert.
Also don't forget a healty influence from the plot ( as for thinking his line, reread this last fight, Kakashi had time to say 2 phrases and think another in the interval between Tobi kicking his kunai and Naruto trying to intercept it ).
And we saw in this fight how he can effortlessy dodge attacks from behind, be it chakra attacks or physical attacks.
Point invalid. Next.Quote:
This is also invalid, right?
Tobi had the time to think all that in the timespan of a blitz, same situation, same outcome, manga logic and plot.
Every MS users has to activate their MS to use their jutsu, and their activation is not instantaneous, more than that a situation like that will not present itself since, in a fight, Tobi most likely keeps his MS ready for any attack and Madara is not a wounded 16 years old kid
He can do what Naruto did if he can somehow enter that realm, which is doubtful since Tobi with Kamui would just warp out a single part of his body
FatPein showed he can protect his hands and stop a damn Ultimate Rasengan from JMan that can carve a mountain(databook) WITH HIS BARE HANDS. Kamui for one would do crep nothing to Madara as long as that shield is up even if he for some reason decides not to do stop the rift. In other words he can tank Kamui with absolutly no problem even if he does not stop Kamui.
Hell Nagato showed the ability to cancel the ambiend head from JMan's combo Katon with those 2 elder frogs in sage mode. The ambient heat(heat generated) from a fire burning at temperatures of thousands of degrees would kill Fat Pain before it got anywhere close to the burning oil... But it did not as he was just fine.
The only way to get around the rinnegan's ability to stop jutsus is to use BT for example and trow a real life rock at Madara from the surounding area like Nagato did to RM Naruto when he was with Itachi or when Deva realm stoped 6 tails Naruto from using a bijudama on him.
Only way to land a hit:
Is to direcly hit him or seal him.
Hell even the moronic Naruto has figured it out:
Last edited by xXan; September 08, 2012 at 08:49 AM.
Madara's "faster than Tobi" speed. Just like Amaterasu, Kamui focuses on point of sight. Even worse, Deidara's proven to us that before Kamui warps away it's target the effect can be sensed/felt. To think Madara'd just sit there and let his head pop off the moment the jutsu takes hold is silly. Not to mention he's capable of spamming clones that only he himself can see through. Obito'd never know which Madara he was warping was the real one unless he used the jutsu from the beginning of the fight. And then he can simply use Susanoo It may rip away some ribs but that's being generous.Originally Posted by jaymizzo
I know he doesn't know about the limit. But that's why I said he'd use an army of clones to figure it out. All he has to do is hide inside of roots or underground while watchinghis clones bring out the big guns, forcing Obito to reveal his powers. As for stamina... think about it: Madara had chakra levels that allowed him to go toe-to-toe with Hashirama and raze entire battlefields WITHOUT Hashirama's DNA. Now that he has his DNA his chakra reserves dwarf Obito's. If the fight came down to a stamina battle there's no way Obito'd take the win even though he has Hashirama's DNA aswell. Remember: Madara had the strongest chakra of his whole clan. His WHOLE CLAN. Before gaining Hashirama's chakra. Obito on the other hand was a dropout.Quote:
If Madara has Mokuton, he's most likely gonna win. I dunno if he can do shadow clones without Mokuton though, as he didn't show that ability. Without Mokuton, I dunno who to give it to, but Madara has been shown to be powerful. If he has Mokuton or kage bunshin, Tobi's chances of even warping him away decreases and chances of losing increases.
Speedblitz wouldn't necessarily be required or important here, considering both have Sharingan and can react in time.
I know, but I didn't see the answer to your question. :P
Since Madara has wood element, I'm giving the match to him. Wood element makes him one of the most powerful and versatile character. Currently, only he and Yamato can take on Tobi because Mokuton can be performed at any range and be used in different ways.