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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Also, just because Prissy can alter a bit her body (but let's be honest, you can recognise her anyway, chibi or not) it means nothing: the only logical conclusion is that in case an awakened being altered too much their appearance Miria wouldn't recognise them, but since she can, it's quite evident that that's not the case for them.
It's ok doing speculation, but speculations have always to consider the FACTS:
- Miria recognise them by looks = FACT
-If they change appearances she can't recognise them by looks = FACT (ok, this is obvious,lol)
==> Miria saw their datas somewhere containing drawn pictures (basically something similar to the warriors' database that Yagi did, from the Mibs' p.o.v. btw....) and their actual appearence is quite similar to their old self = Only logical solution.
Last edited by MalakTawus; October 08, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
racjona has written.
They must know Raki, even if indirectly (i.e. they saw him once or twice from afar while dealing with Isley or something and Raki might or might not have seen them). It wouldn't make sense for them to approach him otherwise since he's a nobody (unless you would have info on him and know his connection to Isley and Priscilla). From their POV just a human who happened to travel with a bunch of Claymores, power-wise he was insignificant and he clearly wasn't the leader of the group. Sure, the fact that he was travelling with them maybe makes him more than your average human but that's it.
One could also speculate that they've chosen him as an intermediary between Claymores and them so that fight could be avoided but they could have chosen Galk/Cid or some weak Claymore just as well so the question is why Raki? The obvious answer would be: because he was alone and because he seemed familiar with all Claymores (on the other hand they didn't know Cid/Galk) and they saw it. But story-wise it would be more interesting if Yagi would add a plot twist and reveal some interesting fact about Raki. Otherwise they wouldn't have much to talk about, it would be a one-sided conversation (i.e. monologue) where they would tell him what they wanted and that would be it. Without any connection between them they wouldn't have much ground to start talking and Raki would become an answering machine/dictaphone for the most part. Of course he has lots of information but without them knowing him I don't see a reason for them to even want to take it out from him.
Now raki kind of seemed like he knew them...he was not surprised that they showed up infront of him. but who knows- you may be right about raki just being the in between guy that they talk to to build an truce with the claymores(as raki seems to have no issue with awakened beings or claymores)..but the question is..would the other claymores agree to joining forces with the AB......and did you find it odd that it seems that chronos just walked away from prissy without a scratch plus he and lars were the only ones who completely dodged prissys attack(Octavia could have to but i am not sure exactly what she did to "evade") it makes me think that Chronos might even be stronger then Duph(personally i think duph was actually quite weak and it was because of Riful that he lived as long as he did)
@Malak- if thats true then why dose Miria not know who prissy is....if the Org has a file with her picture in it would miria not have noticed ? if as you said prissy looks the same how come she never said anything.... and i doubt the org has pictures of old warriors(they at best would have there emblem)....
i still believe dae did something to raki or prissy's arm changed his body or something along those lines.to me,it just doesn't make sense for them to keep him around and lock him up...why?
if he were of no use to dae or the org...just turn him into another male yoma or just kill him.but,lock him up and risk the fact that he has insight of the org...and escape he did.this may be what chronos is interested in...the smell on raki(other than prissy or isley...maybe the smell of teresa from clare"shrugs")...or raki is no normal human.
here's another stab...could raki be a hybrid(in a sense)like clare?
since clare was made a claymore thru adding another warrior's flesh...and prissy was able to resist the hellcats.maybe here arm changed raki into a weak version of a male clare...idk...it's funny that prissy knew to do what she did to raki to save him.
does/did she have some kind of prior knowledge of this...a warrior"fusion"with a human(the only way i can think to explain it)?
her being an awakened being may have helped the fact also...
but,you all have to agree with me that it was quite convenient for raki...his whole situation dealing with the hellcats and dae.
I don't think so. Miria or Clare would have been able to sense yoki in him then. If Raki wasn't human they would have probably gone into that sooner. If Miria or the others sensed that he had yoki, they might not have trusted him enough because he could awaken. And Clare definitely would have said something.Quote:
You said that he was of no use to Dae, but imo you are clearly wrong for a very simple reason: what happened with Raki is very interesting for at least two reasons:
-the first one is obviously "who is the owner of that arm?"
-the second one (also very important) is "why the hell that monster with absurd powers decided to save that boy?"
How can you say that the boy is useless? It's quite obvious that Dae is very interested in that monster so it makes sense that he doesn't kill Raki since it could be a key element to interact with her (or at least collect some info).
Well, at least that's how i see it, if i was Dae i wouldn't kill Raki either, no doubt.
raki was in the cell and prissy's arm had been extracted...plus the former#1s were rezzed.this is why i say there must have been a purpose for raki(with dae)...seeing how at the time raki was captured...dae was interested in the fact that he survived and not just the arm.
i was only putting this out there...i have always found it strange that prissy knew to break a piece of herself off in raki to nuetralize the hellcat rods...and the fact that dae had him in a cell instead of a lab/operating room.
then just hours/a day later...he's bouncing off the walls and handling himself in battle with the twins.
in the recent chap...just a matter(i guess)of hours...he was punctured by the blob and obviously hurt...now he's just standing around like nothing(very odd).
also,did he just sense lars and chronos behind him...dude what's up with that?
---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------
who knows...him and rubel may just be watching from a distance of the current events...just speculating
Perhaps we've all been underestimating Raki's role in this arc. What if Dae's trump card, this entire time, is Raki? The new AOs were meant as a distraction, or possibly Dae's Plan A. If they succeeded, fine. If not... then time to put Raki back into play. Raki has released Clare, and consequently, Priscilla, from the blob. Not Cassie, as some previously thought was going to happen. Raki. He has no youki, since he's still very much human. But he's a human with some extraordinary connections with the most powerful ABs, infinitely more useful to Dae than another hybrid experiment.
Regarding your discussion about Raki...
I really don't know what they want from him. Maybe it's like gnut said: yagi is giving him some purpose we didn't know existed until now. And personally I would love for this to be true as it would be such a plot twist and it will add a Raki very important rule in battle of titans.
About Daae and Rubel: i don't think that Claymore will finish because of those two. Rubel always had some ace in his sleeves while Daae is crazy scientist adn cray scientists always have some trick to. There is also a lot of MiB all across island, most of them flee when Miria brought down Organization you think that they woudn;t call for help from Mainland?
Rak ialso told us that they have ships in their secret harbor. How many ( if not all of them actually ) board o those ships and fled to Mainland to ask for armed assistance against Claymores? It would be so cool if in a middle of Clare/Priscilla battle they appeared and start fighting to with both Ghosts and remaining AB's.
Isn't the whole post-Pieta generation supposed to be "fillers"? the thought crosses my mind now and again that it's actually in a metaphorical sense...that they really are, story-wise, just fillers >_<Originally Posted by Gooral
Oh Yagi, you master troller you.
As with Raki...I'm actually hoping for a nifty plot-twist, because at this point, things are pretty straight-forward...I'm obviously saying that strained, ignoring the mountain of unresolved things to my left that is bigger then Raciella (she's included by the way - really...what the hell happened with her character? What is her character?), but that said....things feel somewhat predictable so a plot-twist with Raki would be pretty cool. Of course, If it's something other then him being a hybrid, it would be nice...it's sort of frustrating to be back and forth on speculation, and then Yagi actually does what we finally believed he'd never do.
You always crack me up with your "facts" and "logic". What I say is not logical? Like taking into account the possibility of MiB making portraits? You're contradicting yourself.
I'm right on the money when I say that MiB drawing the pictures of Claymores is very unlikely and you have no arguments that would suggest otherwise. You bringing up databooks as "proof" is ironic since you've been the most sceptical person about them of all users I know and yet suddenly you're looking at it as if it was alpha and omega. Why do you think there are portraits there? Since you're jumping to wrong conclusions I'll answer for you: to make them more attractive to the fan so that it would have something more than pure data and so that the volume would increase making it more profitable. The fact is however, there is not a single picture there that hasn't appeared earlier, i.e. it's a copy-paste job. And no, don't even think about telling me that MiB also drew Claymore pictures in the whole Claymore manga ;).
Anyway, in all seriousness, it wouldn't make sense for MiB to draw pictures of Claymores. That would be a waste of time since:
a) They would have to wait for such Claymore to mature or make two portraits for each Claymore (there is a significant difference between a teenager and an adult, sometimes making them completely unrecognisable)The above are only my deductions using logic (contrary to your reasoning which is based on nothing). But we have direct proof that I'm right:
b) Claymores do not live long anyway so why bother to draw a picture of someone who might not be around for the next Hanuka day?
c) The ones that awaken are to be killed anyway so who cares how he looks? And even in human form, AB differ from a Claymore.
d) You can't make portraits / it's extremely difficult to draw a picture of someone who is not still so each Claymore would need to sit for quite a while
e) In the end, appearance is insignificant from their POV. Other data are much more valuable and there is nothing that would suggest that power depends on the appearance (for example beautiful Anastasia is way weaker than fugly Priscilla) so why even bother? So that other Claymores could recognize Chronos 100 years later? WTF?
1) They didn't give Clarice Galatea's portrait but instead they gave her Miata who could find her smell (BTW, it's strange that Miata couldn't pinpoint Galatea's location once she reached Rabona) and the important piece of information: Galatea should be blind or have silver eyes. So it's not like a Claymore could blend in which would make drawing a picture redundant)
2) Miria didn't know how Hysteria looked, even though Hysteria was one of the best number ones so if MiB would make portraits they would definitely make one of hers. Why would she know however how someone as insignificant as Chronos, who didn't make the history look like?
3) MiB didn't make pictures of the ghosts and didn't publish their portraits even after they heard from Clarice that 7 swords were missing (so there was a high probability that they were alive), otherwise they would be recognized by Audrey and Rachel (at least "phantom Miria" who was rather famous). And what would be the point of having their portraits and not use them when for once they could become useful?
Is it not a fact that Miria can recognise those old warriors by looks? YES, IT'S A FACT!Quote:
Is it not a fact that Miria OBVIOUSLY can't recognise people by looks if she hasn't seen at least a drawing about them (this is valid in general)? YES, THIS IS ALSO A FACT!
Pretending to not understend this two simple things is quite moronic, and from this two simple facts it's plain OBVIOUS that Miria must have seen some sort of data with pictures about them.
So no, you are not right at all saying that Miria not seeing pictures is not likely, and as i have shown you i have very solid arguments to deny your speculation.
First of all i haven't said that Miria saw that databook, ui said she must have seen something similar to Yagi databook, BIG DIFFERENCE!Quote:
You know the difference between the two concepts, right?So instead of putting words in my mouth read better what i'm actaully saying, i used Yagi's databook as reference just to make an example to what kind of data she could have seen,nothing more. (This btw destroys all your objections connected to the fact that i was referring to Yagi's databook, lol)
Also, what's funny is that what you said would have been nonsensical anyway for a very simple reason: it's true that i consider the databook VERY far from being a trustworthy source of informations about the warriors' abilities since that is supposed to be the Mibs' point of view and we know for a fact that they were often wrong, BUT this doesn't mean that i deny the databook existence, i just deny the fact that it's reliable..........
........ anyway i may also add that i don't see why those pictures in the databook wouldn't be reliable, it's stupid to compare that kind of information with the information about their strenght,lol.
Example: Mibs could easily fail to judge Teresa's strenght (as they did) but it makes no sense that the information about how Teresa looks is also wrong,lol.
Anyway,the problem isn't even there 'cause, like i said, i never said that Miria actually saw Yagi's databook, you just put those words in my mouth and started with your pointless objections.
Exactly because, like you said, warriors don't live long,it makes sense that they drew pictures at the beginning (when they become warriors) since most of them wouldn't have lived anyway long enough to change looks.Quote:
For the few warriors that actually lived enough to change looks all they had to do was making a new drawing to update the data if necessary, nothing big,lol.
Also, most of them don't change looks anyway, take Claire for example: if there is a drawing about her when she became a warrior, only a moron wouldn't recognise her sicne she is basically the exact same,lol.
Not all warriors are nominated warriors when they are still children, Gooral.
Quote:It's not that the org collects data only on the ones that awaken......Quote:
......and also knowing how an AB looks can be helpful sicne some of them can hide their yoki, and not only the big ones (6 arms AB is an example).
Quote:First of all there are artists that can draw excremely precise portraits without using too much time. Also generally it would be something done only when they are nominated warriors, it's not that the artist has to do 100 drawings each day,lol.Quote:
You are making this a big problem when instead there is no problem at all,lol.
Staying still for a bit while the artist makes you a drawing is nothing big (or strange)......
You are way understimating how useful can be that information in certain situations, especially for ABs going around in human form hiding their yoki......or maybe to find out warriors like Raphaela if they decide to escape.......Quote:
You never know what may happen in the future, extra information never hurts.
What i said is based on the FACT that Miria can recognise those ABs by look even if she never saw them before, i assure you it doesn't take a genius to understand that the only logical solution is that she must have seen some pictures.Quote:
You call this "based on nothing"????? Don't make me laugh, Gooral.
And this is supposed to be a proof? Ridiculous.Quote:
We have seen how effective is Miata's sense, it's something that works on immense radius, surely not even comparable to sight,lol.
They probably were confident that Miata would have found Gala anyway (like she did btw).
It's possible that Miria hasn't seen all the data or that she doesn't remember everything.
Also it's a lot easier to remember one of the best males since their numbers is A LOT inferior......it's also possible that after the 6 arms hunt she focused a bit more to the male generation to find out some clue about the org.
Anyway, the simple fact that she doesn't recognise EVERYONE means nothing since it could be explained very easily.
Wrong for two reasons.Quote:
First of all you have to go reread that chapter since almost everyone doubted that the 7 warriors were still alive (Rubel thought so but stayed silent btw)....
.....and second of all: they didn't care anyway! Not one bit! They didn't even send anyone to check,lol.
Gooral you can't create specuations ignoring what is estabilished clearly in the manga: Miria CAN recognise them by looks so it's freaking obvious that it's not possible to deny that she must have seen some pictures somewhere,simple as that.
....unless you start some crazy theory that Miria has visions in her dreams or something like that,lol.
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When I was reading Gernot's translation for the first time this part immediately caught my eye:
I don't get why would Clare say that she now can sense movement that is outside of her field of vision when she has performed her attacks with her eyes closed (e.g. when she defeated Duff along with Jean, it was pre-emptive youki sensing + Quick Sword).Originally Posted by Gernot's translation of page 21
And I can tell you right now, it's definitely not a translation error (in fact this part is super accurate). Here's what Gernot had to say about that:
Any thoughts on this? Because for now it looks like PYS is an even less useful technique than I initially thought and Rafaela's technique is the absolute youki-sensing technique applicable in combat conditions since any movement can be detected that way (so cloaked Claymores would not be a problem).Originally Posted by Gernot
Heh, it seems I'm the only old-timer willing to discuss Claymore and trigger the discussions. Not good. Where are the times where the same thing was being posted by different people in a matter of seconds and there was a brain storming that would put to shame any discussion we've had in a whole last year?
Last edited by Goral; October 09, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
Maybe she is referring to field vision?
Maybe she can now sense yoki that was before outside her maximum sense range?
Only that comes to my mind, in this kind of technic the number of yoma, heads, arms, tenticles etc... are not important as she could sense where they will hit from the start.