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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I would say that the quicksword + PSY could handle the dust eater. Clare would be able to sense every movement Cassandra made and be able to counter it with her QS. Casandra could get anywhere near Clare if she used her QS. And Roxanne wasn't anything special either. She was quickly defeated by Awakened Cassandra in both her human and Awakened form. Not to mention that the only reason Roxanne even had the #1 spot was due to a cheap shot to Cassandra. She defeated the twins, but Miria would have as well if she was trying to kill them.Quote:
PSY is her own power. She created it from her desire to be like Teresa. She practiced it and eventually perfected it. Clare also learned the Windcutter on her own too. It was a weaker (yet more accurate) alternative to the QS that Clare learned in the 7 years she spent in the North. It is not like this technique was given to her, she had to work for it. Deneve said (somewhere?) that Clare trained the hardest out of the other Ghosts. And Clare was not weak, she has that indomitable determination that gives her incredible stamina and resilience. Clare would not have been able to defeat the six armed Male AB (using her PSY) if she was weak. Miria even had trouble with it and would have been killed by it if Clare hadn't saved her ass. Plus Clare did more damage to the AB using PSY than Miria did using her phantom. And I really doubt that Clare is going to cut off her arm and throw it away after she kills priscilla. That would be pretty stupid and illogical.Quote:
Why do you think that Clare is a monster?Quote:
Last edited by Claymore1; October 14, 2012 at 11:32 AM.
Hahahaha! I think you are misunderstanding, i'm just using that expression to say that she is becoming incredibly strong.It has a positive meaning in that context, i wasn't saying that she is litterally becoming a monster (even if she could if something happens to Raki or her friends)Quote:
Similar to when Claire said to Irene that she was a monster to be able to use the QS,lol.
Agree. Unfortunately Irene is probably dead so it would make no sense to throw away Irene's arm and even in the very slim chance that she isn't dead i doubt that she would really want her arm back (and it's possible that she was able to create somehow another arm like she said).Quote:
As a Claymore discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Teresa and Priscilla approaches 1.
One thing is certain though - she is one of the most important characters in the story if she can still trigger discussions about her even though we haven't seen her since volume 5 (not including ES1).
That's a shame since you still haven't replied to my post. http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...79#post3921079
at the end of my post. I was merely pointing out that the way Clare said it, was significant because she was emphasizing the fact she could detect movement that was outside of her FOV even though she could do it using PYS as long as her opponent emitted youki and wasn't using random attacks (like Priscilla or Ophelia). This alone is proof that PYS was a very overestimated technique and Rafaela's underestimated. Not only in Databooks was there no mention of this (which would suggest that Yagi didn't even plan on Rafaela having this technique or didn't want to reveal it then) but somehow Rafaela was never considered as someone equal to Teresa or Alicia (by MiB) even though just as Teresa she has never released her youki for all we know and yet she could defeat any opponent (if she was considered as someone capable of dealing with Irene, anyone weaker than Duff would be an easy pray for her). All the hype regarding PYS turned out to be nothing but that - a hype.
BTW, I've mentioned it earlier but I'll repeat it: Rafaela's technique is a rip-off of this Hunter x Hunter technique.
On a different topic, what do you guys think about Miata? Because it looked to me that one of her normal attacks was almost as powerful as Helen's strongest one. In one cut she had reaved/reft this AB of a huge chunk of meat. Which BTW shows how useless the rest of Claymores were. Deneve couldn't do the same (otherwise this AB would have lost half of it's body) and basically everyone were just gaping at it and only Clarice and Miata were doing some work while everyone else were waiting on Helen to do her thing. I would argue that if they all would work together and coordinate their movements they could do the same thing they did to Agatha. They've had 6 warriors + Galatea + Tabitha was wasting her time on another AB. And while I'm mentioning her, seriously, what was she doing there when Clare is as skilled as her in sensing youki (and it wasn't even necessary for an opponent of that level)? Stupid Miria-fag.
Anyway, IMO these fights were ridiculous on many levels. We've seen Helen and Deneve fighting tougher opponents, the rest of the ghosts were also seasoned in combat and Miata is in a league of her own and yet they've had to wait for Helen to finish preparations for her fatality move? WTF? The only reason for this fight was to show Helen's power and Clare's new technique (so that we wouldn't whine about it later and say "this came out of nowhere") and that was it. But IMO the execution was rather poor on Yagi's part. He could have either powered these ABs up (this struggle was even more ridiculous taking into account that Prissy had squeezed the juices out of them) or sent more of them into Rabona so that each person could show off and demonstrate to us that defeating Hysteria was no miracle.
The way things stand now I don't see how they can even think about defeating Cassandra, let alone Priscilla. If they've struggled against these opponents they will only be a drag on Clare. I'm afraid though that future opponents will scale to their level (or vice versa) and suddenly they will do at least as good as they did against this AB. Personally, that would really annoy me. Seeing what I've seen I would prefer even a worse kind of carnage than what we've seen in Pieta when Rigaldo marched in. That would be consistent with current power levels. But with Yagi's new policy "do not kill, do not (permanently) wound" that is highly unlikely. And it makes me sad. As much as I like some of the characters (e.g. Cynthia, Yuma and even Helen) I think it would be best for the story if Yagi would take their plot-armours away and do what he should have done a long time ago. Claymore was at it's best when it was darker and closer to seinen than shounen demographic. But now it has become a better version of Bleach which isn't exactly a praise.
The crazy thing about Teresa wasn't that she was that much physically superior to everyone else, although she was, but that she could control the flow of the battle against multiple opponents without ever needing to surpass her opponents physically.
Clare used PYS to keep up with opponents, Teresa used it to dominate opponents.
It's the difference between Hysteria's technique and Miria's. Both are good but one is that much better.
As for Rafaela's strength, I think the organization never really understood the full extent of it. She was a #1b who trained for years simply to kill her AO sister. Given how surprised they were that Miria improved so much it wouldn't be outrageous to think they thought she was never improved after the day her sister awakened. Plus, they thought she didn't use yoki at all. (Actually, frankly speaking, I think Yagi invented the technique on the spot.)
If Clare tried to create YF from the concept rather than having the technique gift-wrapped to her it might even be inferior to her PYS.
Miata is a physical beast but we already knew that from her fight vs Agatha. And not that the databooks are canon but on one of the graphs Sophia's 'normal' yoki-enhanced swing was slightly inferior to Jean's drill sword, so it's not unprecedented. The drill sword is just a shitty technique that weak Claymores use to make up for their deficiencies. Everything from the awful prep time to the obvious telegraph makes it useless.Quote:
About PYS, you are overestimating it. I suggest that you read this thread. We should also move with the discussion about it there. I was planning on replying to Malak and others but there was always something in the way, maybe I'll do it in this week. Anyway, the short version is: Teresa would not be able to defeat multiple opponents attacking her at once if she wasn't greatly superior in speed and strength or PYS was the ability to freeze time.
About Rafaela, I've said as much in my post.
As for Miata, yeah, we knew she was a beast but we've never seen her doing this amount of damage to anyone. During Agatha encounter she wasn't focused on her at all and once she turned her eyes on her she had already had her hands cut. So this was the first time we've seen how powerful her attacks really are and how destructive her single attack is.
About Jean, I strongly disagree. I suggest that you read my post regarding this matter. Also, I don't know where did you get the idea that in the databooks it's said Sophia's normal attack is only slightly inferior power-wise. Look at this graph more closely.
Sophia isn't even in here. Undine is the only one close to her (except Teresa obviously) but that doesn't tell us much. For all we know it could be a logartithmic scale where even a small gap at the end would be much more significant than a large gap at the beginning. Saying that it's a shitty technique for weak Claymores is just silly considering that Galatea couldn't do a thing to Duff even after being close to her limit (according to Databooks when she fought him she was at about 50% youki release) and even though her factor by which her power increased was the biggest of all Claymores in Clare's generation (in other words she was also a monster). There was a good reason why she thought Jean's DS would be essential in defeating Goku (Duff).
Also, it may be useless to use in a 1 vs. 1 battle but with a support of others it is often a key to victory. But to be honest I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss it since Jean could most likely twist it many times less (so it would be quick) while still having greater power than even Sophia's attack (between them there was only 1 class difference in strength).
---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 PM ----------
But I wont let you get off saying Roxanne was "nothing special" What of her ability to copy techs(dont see anyone doing that unless you count clares cheep rip off were she needs the limb) what about her ability to completely hide her Yoki from a target....what about the fact that when she was a warrior she climbed from 35 to being regarded as one of the strongest warriors......And the fact she lost to an Awakened Cassandra when she was a warrior is nothing Cassandra was a AO and Roxanne foolishly attacked her blindly....let me guess you think Hysteria was "nothing" as well......Roxannes Yoki hiding would protect her from clares PSY.......Roxanne has several techs that we have not seen...we dont know what the "beautiful sword" dose
She fought countless AB....she was able to kill Cassandra.....and what you call a "cheep blow" i call being smart and planning ahead....Would you consider what the N10 did to Miria was a cheep shot....because had miria brought friends then everything would have been different
The girl on the far right is Sophia. She even uses the same skill as Undine (according to MiB). Anyway, you don't even have to be able to read Japanese (or Chinese as it were for the scans I have) to see this. Look at the two labels for Undine's and Sophia's skill.
Look further down the page on the bottom left you'll see that it matches with the text in that box and you'll see no.4 and no.11 down there.
Sophia and Noel are really underrated. Both were beasts in their respective domains.
Last edited by Snoozles; October 14, 2012 at 02:56 PM.
Nothing special as in I see her as the weakest of the 3. In a 1v1 match i believe Cassandra would come out on top. Sure she started off at a low number and escalated to a higher one, but those are just ranks. Clare was still a #47 when she went to Pieta but was obviously one of the strongest there. And Clare learned the windcutter without directly training with Flora. She also learned the PSY because she wanted to be like Teresa.Quote:
Roxanne also lost to Cassandra in her awakened form. And no, I still believe that Hysteria was the strongest warrior, or at least had the the strongest offensive attack. it might have been better than the dust eaterQuote:
Cassandra was in shock after the only person she cared about was dead and charged into a large group of claymores. She was also already injured by the time Roxanne even got a hit in. Cassandra wasn't thinking clearly and left herself open for attacks because she just didn't care anymore.Quote:
It is sort of a cheap shot, but Miria also shouldn't have been stupid enough to fall for it. Unless it alter the way she thought. But that is what the #10 warrior is for, taking down rebel warriors.Quote:
You're right about Sophia but the rest of my arguments stand (e.g. her fight with Rigaldo shows she was way above your average Claymore). We still don't know whether full-powered DS is being considered here though. Personally I doubt it, the only demonstration of Sophia's strength we got was when she cut the pillar. What Jean did was way more destructive. And as I've said, they differ only 1 class in strength so I don't see how Sophia's normal attack could be this close to Jean's maximum attack which strengthens attack exponentially.
Last edited by Goral; October 14, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
It's true. Clare could not use the PSY with Roxanne, but yes the QS, the best technique we've seen so far, therefore, Clare win the battle.
Anyway, Clare is only dangerous when attacked her because she combines the PYS and QS (and the new ability to Raphaela).
But if the opponent gets defensive, waiting for the attack of Clare, she would not win against the No. 1 most powerful, including Cassandra, Roxxane, Histerya. Only kill
them if they attack it (when she can use PYS + QS + the new ability to Raphaela).
If she attacks, everybody know that their attacks are easy to dodge, referring to her leg speed is quite poor, said by Cintya or Thabita if I'm not mistaken. So she can not win if she can not hit her enemy.
Last edited by su5so; October 14, 2012 at 03:24 PM.
But are we absolutely sure that Clare wouldn't be able to sense her. It was said that Roxanne could hide her yoki from a target, but to what degree? Clare has acute yoki sensing and it is possible that Clare's sensing ability is superior to Roxanne's ability to hide her yoki.Quote:
Cynthea said it, but Clare is much stronger than that. She has that indomitable spirit and determination that can allow her to do almost anything.Quote:
But we are talking about Clare without her half-awake mode. Obviously in this way outperforms any claymore and probably the abyssals.
I'm not denying Jean was strong for a single digit or that the technique was fine for a single digit (my standard for strong at this point is around a no.2 in strength). But it's a flawed technique that would have failed twice if not for Galatea's last minute intervention (closing Dauf's mouth and freezing the latest AB). It's a useful under the right circumstances: a distracted enemy so you have sufficient time to charge it up and an immobilized enemy so you can actually hit. But those are pretty heavy requirements. The team has to (temporarily) be in complete control of the fight.
As for why Sophia could match Jean with a "simple" physical boost, I'm of the opinion that Claymores on the whole never learn how to most efficiently manipulate their yoki to maximize their physical capabilities. The human body (or half human) isn't meant to channel yoki so doing so properly isn't instinctive, which is why their bodies distort at higher yoki quantities. Sophia and Noel just happened to be really good at channeling yoki to increase speed and strength. Jean's way of storing power is ingenious but not very efficient.
Anyway it's just a theory with no basis and Sophia has no amazing feats of strength. On the other hand Noel managed to tag Priscilla, which is pretty impressive and I'm of the opinion that Sophia was as strong as Noel was fast.
Last edited by Snoozles; October 14, 2012 at 03:58 PM.
As for Miata there is nothing out of the ordinary I wouldn't think. Miata is one of the strongest Claymores now that can easily became next No. 1 now that she found her mental stability. And I totally agree about Tabitha, Yagi should gave her more to do than to just stand there and tell what is left and what is right ( aldo in her defense she didn't knew how Clare can read yoki now ) and others look like they are useless ( I mean they needed 6 Claymores to put down one average/above average AB, I just can't wait to see what will Priscilla do to them ), seriously why didn't all of them attack that AB but instead they left Helen and Miata to take it alone? You were right about this one, this chapter is nothing more than to show Helen's and Clare's new power and make everyone else look like idiots ( except Rabona Guards, these guys were awesome ).
As for darker version...I don't know about that one. All characters grew to my heart and to see one of them killed would be quite sad, especially now that almost all characters that are present are long-term characters ( except for AB's around Rabona ). But soem of their death would make manga interesting as they would initiate rage upon certain characters who would carve for revenge. On that point I think that Yagi won't kill Galk, Cid, Uma, Cynthia, Tabitha and Galatea. The ones who he might kill are in my opinion:
-Clarice/ Miata after some time : that would make Miata to gone berserk and destroy everything in her path, eventually dying herself while trying to damage Priscilla as much as she could. This one would be extremely sad but it would have desired effect like Jean's death, and thus making manga darker again.
-Deneve : this one is totally possible, she die trying to protect someone from dying and as a result suffer mortal wound that she cannot regenerate. Helen of course go berserk to and try to fight but she is wounded to, but survives to see the end of battle. Later she mourns her lost comrade and close friend and join Galatea to serve as sister in church.
-Helen : Same like with Deneve's death.
-Miria : most possible death no.1 Miria tried to fight Priscilla but she is heavily wounded, in meantime Clare continues to fight and the crucial moment arrives. In that moment Miria makes one last move and move Clare away and take killing blow herself, after that Clare takes advantage of situation and kills Priscilla. Miria dies with smile on her face because she finally destroyed the Organisation and set all Claymores free. Tabitha is of course devastated because of that and as a reminder of her fallen captain she take Miria's sword while Mria is burred with Tabitha's sword as grave marker.
-Raki : most possible death no.2 Similar scenario like Miria, Raki uses his body to shield Clare from fatal blow. Clare is devastated and release her full power witch in return activates her hidden Teresa's power and she utterly destroy Priscilla like she destroyed Rigaldo in North. Raki dies on her hands with his last word being that he loves her and that he is sorry that they won't continue their travels any longer. Clare is devastated by Raki's death and she felt guilt for his death in the years that will come.
-Clare most possible death no.3 It's rather simple, Clare sacrifice herself to defeat Priscilla and dies in Raki's hands in the end. But before she die she die with smile with her last words being to Raki what Teresa said to her all those years ago: to live as a Human and die as a Human. Raki is devastated but takes her words to his heart and continue to live normally, get married, get children but he never forgotten Clare who's grave he visit regularly with all other survivors of that battle.
Of course those are just my predictions. But I am sure that someone will die in this battle - and it will be someone of the main cast ( Clare, Raki or Miria being my bet ), because one of their death will have great impact on the story and return to it that darkness we all love.
Last edited by Brother Coa; October 14, 2012 at 04:12 PM.
Its chapter 117 btw page 16ish