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Yeah right, sorry but you are just imagining things. There is absolutely no reason to think that Cassy was weaker than the other 7 (Teresa excluded obviously), infact she proved otherwise.Quote:
About Roxy you can add to your list: "What about the fact that she talked shit as if she was so great and instead eneded up with Cassy kicking her a**?"
Cassy completely umiliated Roxy. Every time i remember Roxy saying that Cassy was just as stron as a n.5.....what an idiot,lol.
Also even Roxy would be destroyed by Claire: you say that PSY wouldn't work on Claire.....litlle problem: Claire doesn't give a sh** since now she can use YF too.In other words, Roxy can hide her yoki all she wants, now it's 100% USELESS against Claire,lol.
A cheep blow is a cheep blow. Even Miria was able to defeat Histy but it doesn't change the fact that Histy is clearly stronger.Quote:
Roxy highly understimated Cassy and when arrived the time for a fair confrontation Cassy kicked her sorry a** teaching her the difference between her and a "true n.1" (not that Roxy doesn't deserve the n.1 status, she just don't deserve the title compared to Cassy).
If you really belive that Teresa would be able to defeat awakened Prissy without even having trouble than i'll leave you in your imaginary world.Quote:
Also you pretended to not see the problem with your logic: Teresa herself said that Prissy would have been a problem, and she was obviously thinking about Prissy in human form, not awakened.
How could Prissy be a potential problem in human form if Teresa can kill her in her awakened form with no problem?
The other warriors told tons of BS about Claire,lol.Quote:
Considering that we have seen Claire move at amazing speed more than one time (i'm not referring to her partial awakening)like that sudden boost that she used against the single digit awakened (mission with Ophelia), or against Agatha, or against Dauf........
Claire was able to escape from Riful, escaping from Cynthia would be a joke.
...Roxanne said "without that technique your no better then a average n5"
now here if Teresa fought awakened prissy and Teresa Released 80% yoki you are saying prissy would still be a challenge ?
Edit: Cassandra herself said that if Roxanne had used her attacks properly she could have defeated her.....the more i think about it the more i think there is no such thing as "strongest" because as you said someone strong can be killed by someone weaker
Last edited by Ancy; October 15, 2012 at 07:09 AM.
Anyway Roxy was obviously wrong about Cassy 'cause if what she said was true than Cassy would have never become THAT strong once awakened.Quote:
It's 100% evident that Cassy had also the power of a true n.1, not just that technique.Cassy probably looked weaker only 'cause fighting in front of others she was embarassed and worried about useless things.
What part of "when they awaken there is an huge jump in power" you don't understand? It's not just 20% stronger.Quote:
80% power in human form IS NOT THE SAME AS AN ABYSSAL USING 80% POWER!!!
Prissy can destroy abyssals like it's nothing, without even transforming and without even fighting seriously, there is not even a slim chance that Teresa could hope to defeat a monster like that without having any trouble even if she releases 80% yoki.
.....and you continue to ignore tha fact that Teresa herself said that Prissy could be a problem (in human form!!!) so it's 100% obvious that once Prissy awakened (in awakened form!!!) and released her full potential she would have been big trouble even for Teresa....
Last edited by Ancy; October 15, 2012 at 07:10 AM.
Rank is kinda pointless ...... Roxannes power rivaled that of Cassandras but Cassandra was a "true n1" in the sense that she was good at making hard decisions under pressure and i admit Roxanne lacked that....Roxanne was full of lust for power and she let that cloud her judgement
And there is no need for caps locks
and what i ment was would Teresa releasing 80% yoki in warrior form be a match for a fully awakened prissy ....i think She would kick prissys ass
And in that same battle Teresa said "come after me as many times as you want i will cut you down every time" so by that Teresa was still confidant in her ability's
Last edited by Ancy; October 15, 2012 at 07:10 AM.
And you think wrong 'cause what Teresa herself said exclude this.Quote:
Exactly, like i said she was an idiot in understimating Cassy.Quote:
First of all, even if Teresa really belived that she would be able to defeat Prissy even in the future, it's still nonsense to belive that she was confident to defeat Prissy without having troubles......and she was only thinking about Prissy in human form!!!Quote:
Prissy in awakened form is immensely stronger than what Teresa could ever imagine, so it's absolutely impossible that she would have been able to defeat her with no trouble (actually it would have been already a miracle if Teresa would have been able to win at all).
Last edited by Ancy; October 15, 2012 at 07:12 AM.
Nah, Teresa still could have taken out awakened priscilla. She would just need to release more yoki.Quote:
I want to fuel another Teresa v Priscilla debate
And i mean no offence but i was defending Roxanne....(sorry i am kinda crazy so i must defend all of the crazy people...fictional or not :3)
U know what i dont even care about prissy or Teresa enough to continue debating about them....prissy is a stupid little girl with daddy issues and Teresa is a cold hearted bitch who let her feelings for a little girl get her killed...in the end Teresa was nothing but pathetic and a disappointment.
i think Roxanne was the perfect warrior....she was strong.....could kill awakened beings with ease......and she seems like the kind of person who would not care about the org using humans and being evil and such.....i think all N1 are aware that the Org is evil and dose not care about humans
Last edited by Ancy; October 15, 2012 at 07:13 AM.
I think with Cassandra her Yoki was that of a No.1 but her fighting style was lacking because she mainly relied on her Dust Eater. So thats probably the reason Roxanne fought Cassandra was only as good as a No.5 without her Dust Eater.
Okay, it seems that while I was away, the topic has shifted from Clare's "rank" compared to her comrades to her "rank" compared to the likes of HRC.
First off, I wouldn't go on and say that Clare has no chance against HRC. Miria managed to win, though the scenario was utterly ridiculous. However, I wouldn't say she'd take the win all that easily either. As MalakTawus said, the combination of her abilities allows her to respond appropriately to almost every other attack, but there are those tiny little details that make the difference.
First, let's talk about how she would fare against Hysteria. Hysteria's Elegance is quite easily the fastest single strike attack in the CLAYMORE universe aside from Miria's acclaimed attempt on Priscilla with her beyond-limit phantom. It, however, requires proximity and a large burst of yoki. Clare can anticipate where Hysteria is coming from and the speed at which the latter is approaching her using her PYS. The question is if she can process the information quickly enough and if she possesses the required agility/strength/swordplay skills to defend appropriately. As I said here here, Clare's ability to respond properly highly depends on her baseline statistics. It may very well be that Hysteria had already sliced her before she could even process that the attack was coming.
If Clare survives the attack, she has the choice of using QS either offensively or defensively. Given the velocity of WC's strikes, I'd say Clare will have to default to the QS if she has any hopes of defeating Hysteria. Clare's WC was a match for Miria's yokiless phantom, whereas Hysteria could could keep up with the regular phantom effortlessly. Anyway, going back to the point, I'm pretty sure Hysteria should be able to blitz away to safety if Clare used the QS offensively, unless her pride causes her to make a poor judgment call and attempt to take it head on. As a defensive maneuver, on the other hand, another factor comes into play—just how long Clare can keep the QS going? She obviously can't keep it going forever, as it consumes a significant amount of yoki. Hysteria can simply wait until Clare wipes herself out and then go in for the kill using Elegance. Of course, Clare can also fake fatigue and then reactivate the QS as Hysteria charges, which raises another question—does Hysteria possess the necessary agility and finesse to mosey away mid-Elegance should the QS be activated?
Another question is whether Hysteria actually possesses the speed to go in-between swings. One must realize that despite the illustrations, the sword can only be in one place at any point in time, and a well-timed, ridiculously fast attack has the potential to penetrate the wall of slashes that the QS offers. Let it be said, though, that this last scenario is possible, but highly unlikely. It's certainly easier to swing a sword than move an entire body.
Now, let's go to Roxanne. With her unique ability to hide her yoki from a particular target, the PYS is rendered useless and before the last few chapters, that would have put her in somewhat of a disadvantage. This is covered nicely by her acquisition of Rafaela's YF. Clare, now, should not have any blind spots despite not having the PYS to guide her.
Again, the factor of her baseline statistics come into play. Roxanne has been shown to be quite fast. The twins didn't even have the time to react to the lightning-fast sword-to-the-face attack. Worse, what if Roxanne uses the Blade of Evil, which entails an even faster attack compared to those which utilize the blade. If Clare possesses the necessary skills to react to that, then good for her. If not, she's dead.
As for the WC/QS, I'm not sure how Roxanne would fare against it. I highly doubt she could handle it blow for blow and I am uncertain if she possesses the necessary speed to get away once it's activated while she is proximate. Given the near-teleportation speed she showed against the twins, it's possible. Also, as with Hysteria, Roxanne could wait for Clare to tire and then go in for the kill afterwards.
All of Clare's techniques could be utilized against Cassandra, particularly Rafaela's YF, which should help her defend against the DS's tendency to exploit a pseudo-blind spot. For the third time, the question is whether Clare has the necessary baseline abilities to defend against this attack, which is demonstrated to be quite speedy in itself. Given the illustration of Clare's QS vs Flora's WC, the slashes reach the ground, she could use either as a defensive maneuver.
Now, as for Cassandra vs Roxanne, I don't think Cassandra is outright stronger. Sure, Cassandra was No. 1 and Roxanne was No. 2 during the time the former was alive, which means Cassandra was "officially" stronger, but: 1) we all know how messed up the MiB can be in terms of power measurements sometimes such as in the case of Teresa, and 2) there's no telling how much Roxanne improved further before her death.
In another matter, I doubt Cassandra is the weakest of the "Elite Eight." While the fact that she was added last, almost as if an afterthought compared to, say, Hysteria, who was immediately named, and Roxanne's statement about her "only [matching] up to an average number five without [the Dust Eater]" seem to imply that she is the weakest, Dae's seemingly genuine reverence must be taken into account. Also, Roxanne's statement is subject to interpretation. She may very well be just talking about swordplay. I highly doubt a warrior with the stats of a No. 5 would be raised to No. 1 just because of a technique, no matter how efficient it is.
I'll reply to the rest later... Typing all this made me sleepy... Hehe.
You are understimating Claire imo.Quote:
In your analysis you miss to notice that what was really impressive in Claire's fight against Miria is NOT that she was able to keep up with yokiless phantom thanx to the WC, it's that she was able to counter Miria's yokiless phantom with her WC simply with the use of her eyes! Claire letterally could see Miria's yokiless phantom and react to it with no problem. This means that it's very possible (or to be more precise, it's almost certain) that against an opponent that release her yoki (like the regular phantom) she could do even better since she can predict the moves of her opponent.
Another big problem in your analysis: as much as Histy can be fast, her speed is still insignificant compared to QS speed. (You have to remember that in human form NO ONE can go too fast, not even Histy........and anyway even at top speed it makes no sense that her speed is even close to QS's speed)
Exactly. The QS speed is on a completely different level compared to Histy's speed.Quote:
........now i have to go, i'll go on reading (and maybe responding) tomorrow.
I mostly agree although there are a couple of things I would like to point out (I will mostly repeat what I've written a week ago and earlier). Firstly, Clare's WC that could (easily) keep up with Miria's youkiless phantom was also youkiless, hence it wasn't at maximum power either. When we've seen Flora go all out she was emitting youki all over (and AFAIR that was the only time we've seen her attacking at maximum power). If Clare would gor 30% or more WC would also improve significantly. But because the sword had to be sheathed and unsheathed every time even if it was achieved at tremendous speeds it would have a huge weakness which QS didn't have. Thus QS was still way above even the best version of WC. But what's great about WC is that it could be used as a great defensive move against attacks from behind which along with QS would give her 360 degrees protection while maintaining the same stance.
As for the question whether Clare possess the required skill to process all the information, I'm pretty sure she can, otherwise she would not be able to use PYS so effectively. During all those years she has gone from a point where she had problems with reading and attacking at the same time to something she showed when she attacked Duff and Duff only even though Jean was very close to her. And that was 7 years ago, I would think that after all these years she has improved even further. Given that all Claymores have their thought process sped up and that Clare was very bright from the start (thus she could absorb any technique she saw) and that Hysteria could do something like this (otherwise she wouldn't have such a precision while attacking someone) I don't see a reason why Clare would be any worse.
But anyway, anticipating it wouldn't even be necessary since QS's speed surely surpasses the speed of Hysteria's elegant strike (ES) technique. The problem could be the stamina. Since QS puts a lot of strain on a body she probably wouldn't be able to maintain it for too long (although ES isn't that easy on the body either). But given the immense speed of it I doubt the fight would take long. Hysteria would be cut into little pieces every single time if she would attack Clare head on. So unless Clare was asleep I don't even see a chance for Hysteria to win.
Regaridng Roxanne and Cassandra, I also don't see a way for them to even threaten Clare. QS is the ultimate technique, the best we've seen in Claymore and no technique they've had (that we know of) could even come close to it (about Dust Eater technique I've written here and later in the same thread in case someone would like to know why I think that). And while QS wasn't the most powerful technique there was (even now I doubt it could easily penetrate Duff's armour), for cutting Claymores up it would suffice. The sheer speed of Irene was something Noel could only dream of (and yet Noel managed to cut Priscilla's hand, although partially because Priscilla's dominant hand was occupied with Sophia) and I seriously doubt that even Hysteria would be able to rush through a bunch of bleeding youma without getting even one drop of blood on her.
Most of this is speculation of course but I honestly think that we haven't seen a better than QS pure offensive technique. IMO Clare would be able to defeat HRC (one at a time) having only that. But with her additional assets I don't even see a chance for HRC.
The dilemma here is how much difference there was in the two phantoms Miria. With and without yoki, the difference was little, or a lot? It should be a lot more. Because if the weakest (no yoki) it is almost like normal, when utlize yoki, should be much more.
Like Clare with the WC and QS. The two were similar level
seven years ago. Now, without yoki, Clare, has the same speed as the WS which was similar to QS of 7 years before.
Now with yoki the QS is much more.
With Miria, must be the same. Or in the manga stated otherwise and I do not remember?
Last edited by su5so; October 15, 2012 at 02:58 PM.
I think u can see the different when Clare vs Rafaela where Rafaela can counter all windcutter but not QS...Quote: