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Thread: Claymore 131 Discussions

  1. #136
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Night View Post

    So did Clare really need a new move (of this nature anyway)? It could come in handy when fighting opponents whose yoki is completely suppressed, but where is she going to find those?
    I think it was in one of the earlier chapters that Miria identified Clare's technique. She remarked that Clare had difficulty using reading the flow of her enemy's youki while simultaneously attacking. It's been nearly ten years (round off) since that time, so we can infer that her skills in this matter have improved, perhaps to the level of Teresa (reading youki and attacking - not in strength or effectiveness as a warrior). I don't believe that she actively sought a new technique but that her mind link with Rafaela's dying consciousness had some fringe benefits.

    Agreed, Deneve remarked that Miria primarily used the Phantom as a defensive maneuver but has probably been forced to adapt it on an offensive scale. Riful herself pointed out that "one trick ponies" such as Rachel don't fare well, once the element of surprise is lost.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

  2. #137
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    @Fermat
    Well, when you put it that way it certainly looks like it. But the problem is that a page earlier we have a picture that contradicts it. We have Clare being on the left side of this AB and Miria on the right and positions of the swords suggest that Clare would attack from right to left and Miria also from her right to left (they would have to hold a sword in a bit awkward position but it's very doable or instantly flip the handle or just have enough momentum to rush through her and pierce her without changing the positions of their swords significantly). Otherwise they would have to retract their arms and somehow manage to slip the swords through this AB without hurting her and then attack her in a way that you've described or rotate 360 degrees. Both of these options seem more awkward than the alternative IMO. Or I'm missing something obvious here (which is very probable so I hope you will correct me).

    @Brother Coa

    1) Miria's fastest attack is nowhere near Clare's fastest attack since Miria relies on her legs mainly and her swings are nothing special (and you should ask yourself, can you run as fast as you can move your hand?). On the other hand Clare can swing her sword super fast thanks to QS technique. Even her youkiless WC easily matched Miria's "youkiless" phantom. If Clare would release youki while doing it she could easily match anything Miria could throw at her. And QS is way beyond even the strongest version of WC (when Clare fought Flora who was master of WC technique she was equal to her even though she wasn't much stronger than when she left Irene, i.e. she had maybe 50% of Irene's power, imagine what she could do to her now).

    2) Creating phantoms has nothing to do with speed. Do you see after-images when watching an F1 racing car or even better: F-16/F-22? No. Can you see an after-image of a rather slow object in a series of flashes? Yes. The fact is, if the object is fast enough you just don't see it and it seems as if it teleported itself. The speed like this we've seen in Claymore only a couple of times. Teresa did this here and here. I don't think even Hysteria was this fast. Also, Rigaldo was faster than Miria and he didn't create any after-images.

    3) Clare (albeit in QoB mode) has already shown faster speed than anything Miria has shown (not counting the moment when Miria was shoot via Anastasia's hair). So you saying that "she will never be as fast as Miria's fastest attack" has already been proven wrong.

    BTW, probably everyone has noticed this but it doesn't seem that Clare has even used her most powerful attacks during that encounter, only normal swings + Rafaela's technique (+PYS maybe). Maybe she used WC but definitely not QS which surely is much more powerful than the last time we've seen (not counting the fight in imaginery world although it gives us a good hint on how powerful it is now). I'm not even sure she has used it on Priscilla.
    Last edited by Goral; October 07, 2012 at 02:12 PM.

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  4. #138
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    @Goral
    I was relying mostly in Deneve's overview in chapter 85 when she said that Miria is superior to Clare in speed, endurance, strength, swordsmanship, mental strength and concentration while giving Clare only limitless drive that can be her greatest strength or her greatest weakness. But now that you mentioned it I didn't take timeskip into account at all, and Clare's QS should be indeed more powerful than the version she used against Flora ( she used it only once and it was in mental world ). I also didn't take into account that she has exit the destroyer with what seems to be huge powerup for her ( Raphaela's technic ) so you are right now as present Clare is probably much, much stronger than Miria.

    ---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    BTW, probably everyone has noticed this but it doesn't seem that Clare has even used her most powerful attacks during that encounter, only normal swings + Rafaela's technique (+PYS maybe). Maybe she used WC but definitely not QS which surely is much more powerful than the last time we've seen (not counting the fight in imaginary world although it gives us a good hint on how powerful it is now). I'm not even sure she has used it on Priscilla.
    Now that you mentioned this I remembered that she didn't fight Priscilla at all. She made several swings that Prisy evaded with ease and after that she put her feet at Clare's head to protect her from flying darts from destroyer. After Clare got free ( thanks to Helen ) she manage to cut Priscila's arm, Priscilla in return kicked her at left shoulder and making a big hole in it. After that Clare tried the same thing she did with Rigaldo, but Jean's "countermeasures" kicked in and she returned to normal. So Clare didn't use QS at all against Priscilla, but than again Priscilla didn't fought seriously at all.
    But I don't think that Clare could defeat her now, even with that power up. Note that Priscilla will probably get upgraded to once Cassandra arrive.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

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  5. #139
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Great chapter. I really loved Helen's attitude. It's good to see all of them back in their old uniforms again.

    Quote Quote:
    But I don't think that Clare could defeat her now, even with that power up. Note that Priscilla will probably get upgraded to once Cassandra arrive.
    I would certainly hope not. She doesn't need another power up. She is ridiculously over powered already. I don't know how Clare is going to kill her.

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  7. #140
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    I would certainly hope not. She doesn't need another power up. She is ridiculously over powered already. I don't know how Clare is going to kill her.
    My guess is that Clare is going to cut her head, after all that's the only way to kill it as she regenerate everything else in ridiculous speed.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  8. #141
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    My guess is that Clare is going to cut her head, after all that's the only way to kill it as she regenerate everything else in ridiculous speed.
    Yeah, maybe Galatea can manipulate her long enough for Clare to cut off her head.

    People have said that this chapter was filler but it still was a good. At least we got to see Clare in action again. And the chapter ended on a curious note with Chronos wanting to speak with Raki.

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  10. #142
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Brother Coa:
    That's the problem of Clare. When she sees Priscilla, she goes crazy and does not use the QS, which is her best attack.
    It was the same with Rigardo, Clare went crazy and did not use the QS, which could have put Rigardo in trouble.

    In short, when Clare sees an enemy who she really hates, she does not think and senseless attacks.
    At least, with Priscilla, she decided to wake up. But before that, she attacked without thinking as with Rigardo.
    Anyway, Clare (with her initial attack) did not cut an arm to Priscilla, it was an attack of destructor.

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  12. #143
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by su5so View Post
    That's the problem of Clare. When she sees Priscilla, she goes crazy and does not use the QS, which is her best attack.
    It was the same with Rigardo, Clare went crazy and did not use the QS, which could have put Rigardo in trouble.

    In short, when Clare sees an enemy who she really hates, she does not think and senseless attacks.
    At least, with Priscilla, she decided to wake up. But before that, she attacked without thinking as with Rigardo.
    Anyway, Clare (with her initial attack) did not cut an arm to Priscilla, it was an attack of destructor.
    Exactly, that is why Deneve told Cid that they will not let her to run wild this time.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  13. #144
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    I was relying mostly in Deneve's overview (...)
    Yeah, except she's not the best judge here since she's Miria's fangirl. Remember their meeting in a cave in Pieta? They've all learned that Clare has survived Duff and Riful encounter (and defeated Duff). And yet a while later Deneve said: "You have grown stronger as well, gathering lots of experience but Miria is beyond that. That means Miria has been through situations far harsher than anyone of us had thought." This is retarded on many levels. Firstly, she said something rather obvious. Clare was after all dead last and Miria in top 6. It was something unthinkable that Clare could close that gap in such a short time. Secondly, for Miria to be in harsher situation than Clare she would have to fight an Abyssal at least. And we know that even after the timeskip she wasn't willing to risk it even though she had Clare and others with her. Thirdly, she didn't actually see what Clare or Miria were REALLY capable of at the time (vol. 10, chapter 54), for that they would have to fight each other (for all she knew the AB that Miria had defeated was the weakest of the 3, I seriously doubt that Miria would defeat turtle AB alone).

    Also, when Deneve said that Miria is superior she intentionally ignored the fact that Clare has more youki in store. She put that fact on a side to be more accurate and summed Clare up as someone with "certain explosive quality". Last but not least, when they fought in the north Miria was losing if anything and she certainly didńt have the advantage Deneve talked about.
    Last edited by Goral; October 08, 2012 at 01:06 AM.

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  15. #145
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    Yeah, except she's not the best judge here since she's Miria's fangirl. Remember their meeting in a cave in Pieta? They've all learned that Clare has survived Duff and Riful encounter (and defeated Duff). And yet a while later Deneve said: "You have grown stronger as well, gathering lots of experience but Miria is beyond that. That means Miria has been through situations far harsher than anyone of us had thought." This is retarded on many levels. Firstly, she said something rather obvious. Clare was after all dead last and Miria in top 6. It was something unthinkable that Clare could close that gap in such a short time. Secondly, for Miria to be in harsher situation than Clare she would have to fight an Abyssal at least. And we know that even after the timeskip she wasn't willing to risk it even though she had Clare and others with her. Thirdly, she didn't actually see what Clare or Miria were REALLY capable of at the time (vol. 10, chapter 54), for that they would have to fight each other (for all she knew the AB that Miria had defeated was the weakest of the 3, I seriously doubt that Miria would defeat turtle AB alone).

    Also, when Deneve said that Miria is superior she intentionally ignored the fact that Clare has more youki in store. She put that fact on a side to be more accurate and summed Clare up as someone with "certain explosive quality". Last but not least, when they fought in the north Miria was losing if anything and she certainly didńt have the advantage Deneve talked about.
    What i want to know is how Miria knows so much about awakened beings..... specifically i want to know how she "knew" who Chronos , Lars,Octavia and the other numbers she mentioned ? dose the Org keep files on them?, did Rubel warn her about powerful past warriors?

    And it is possable for Miria to have fought(and maybe killed) awakened beings stronger then Duph ...but i doubt miria has even fought an AO
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  16. #146
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    @Goral: Yup. I thought about that too, but when you consider the final positions of their arms, i.e. extended at the right side of their bodies, it would suggest that they both made left-to-right swings and merely made the adjustments prior to delivering the blows.

    As for utilizing the previous image, I could think of Clare turning around once to her left and delivering that occipitofrontal slash, this time, with the blade's hilt closer to the reader. This leaves the blade to the mouth as Miria's blow. I, however, cannot discern a possible efficient scenario where Miria would be able to swing from right to left and end up with a blade to the AB's right cheek moving left. One scenario involves a left-to-right backhand swing so that the blade lands on the designated cheek. That would, however, be a fade-away swing and the terminal arc of the swing would move farther away from the AB and would not be enough to cut through since only the tip of the blade reached the cheek. As such, the only way the blow would have been sufficient was if it had been frontooccipital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    I would certainly hope not. She doesn't need another power up.
    Can't agree with this more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    Yeah, maybe Galatea can manipulate her long enough for Clare to cut off her head.
    Remember, Galatea's technique involves meddling with the opponent's yoki with a bit of her own and is minimally effective when her opponent's yoki is huge, which is exactly what Priscilla has. I don't think she has the capacity to hold a being as powerful as Priscilla even for a few seconds, though I would be most delighted if proven wrong.

  17. #147
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    @number12michael
    As I've written here and here it definitely was not in any of the files MiB had, unless they made a portrait of every warrior (which is very unlikely). She must have met them before, the question is when and where?

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    (...) And it is possable for Miria to have fought(and maybe killed) awakened beings stronger then Duph ...but i doubt miria has even fought an AO
    lol
    No it's not. Give me a name of someone more powerful than Duff that isn't an AO or Priscilla. Even Rigaldo can't be considered as stronger since while being fast he has a weak armour while Duff's is the strongest one we've ever seen except maybe for Cassandra and he had the power and a nasty technique to back it up. Even the AB Helen killed didn't have such strong armour if Miata and others could penetrate it easily (the problem was it's fast regeneration).

    Anyway, even assuming that Rigaldo was stronger, it was not by much so anyone stronger than Duff would have to be at least of Rigaldo's level. And we all know how Miria fared against Rigaldo. In other words, if Miria would encounter anyone stronger than Duff she wouldn't even be in Pieta.

    And BTW, if the teams would switch and would have to fight the AB Helen and others were fighting I doubt they could finish it off so quickly. Miria's attacks wouldn't do much to it and only Clare with her QS would be able to make a significant injury and finish this AB off. Miria could serve only as a decoy i.e. annoying fly.

  18. #148
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    @number12michael
    As I've written here and here it definitely was not in any of the files MiB had, unless they made a portrait of every warrior (which is very unlikely). She must have met them before, the question is when and where?


    lol
    No it's not. Give me a name of someone more powerful than Duff that isn't an AO or Priscilla. Even Rigaldo can't be considered as stronger since while being fast he has a weak armour while Duff's is the strongest one we've ever seen except maybe for Cassandra and he had the power and a nasty technique to back it up. Even the AB Helen killed didn't have such strong armour if Miata and others could penetrate it easily (the problem was it's fast regeneration).

    Anyway, even assuming that Rigaldo was stronger, it was not by much so anyone stronger than Duff would have to be at least of Rigaldo's level. And we all know how Miria fared against Rigaldo. In other words, if Miria would encounter anyone stronger than Duff she wouldn't even be in Pieta.

    And BTW, if the teams would switch and would have to fight the AB Helen and others were fighting I doubt they could finish it off so quickly. Miria's attacks wouldn't do much to it and only Clare with her QS would be able to make a significant injury and finish this AB off. Miria could serve only as a decoy i.e. annoying fly.
    Now i want to know how she knows them , there must be stuff she is still hiding from the other ghosts

    And would you consider Octavia (an awakened number 2) stronger then duph, maybe thats how miria knows her maybe she battled Octavia before??

    and i agree if it was clare and miria vs the regenerating Awakened it would have been a different battle....even tho i like how it looked that multi body awakened was kinda weak...they must have been hurt from getting there asses kicked by prissy/destroyer


    Goral what do you think Chronos wants with Raki....Have they met before?, dose he smell Isely on him? do him and lars want a new butt buddy?, maybe they just want to talk about whats going on?
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  19. #149
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    It makes sense that Miria knows the past warriors and ABs 'cause she read some registers (or something like that).
    Tbh i wouldn't read too much into it.
    Last edited by MalakTawus; October 08, 2012 at 08:30 AM.

  20. #150
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 131 Discussions/ 132 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
    It makes sense that Miria knows the past warriors and ABs 'cause she read some registers (or something like that).
    Tbh i wouldn't read too much into it.
    but how would she know what they look like? like Goral said i doubt the Org drew pictures of them....and from what i can tell Awakened beings can alter what they look like in there human form ....like how prissy got small and lthe prissy who was traveling with raki in his home town looked nothing like the prissy that awakened many years ago
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

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