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Thread: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

  1. #46
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Thank you sir. I was about to do the same, but you beat me to it.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Chapter 8: "Oh, Kakashi's friend died? I wonder if we'll get to see what happened, it seems to be pretty important to the series."

    Chapter 238: "Ah, we finally get to see what happened to his friend, Obito."

    Chapter 244: "Killed by a rock? What? With a medic ninja right there wouldn't he pull through? Why didn't they break the rock and save him? Well whatever, RIP."

    Chapter 281: "Hey, that looks waaaay too much like Obito. The hair, personality, the eye not taken by Kakashi... Well maybe he got an hair cut"

    Chapter 364: "Wait... did Tobi say he was Madara or just had his power, like his chakra or something? Ohh waay he can teleport what an amazing power."

    Chapter 397: "Woah, look at those wrinkles? I thought Madara had big ol' bags under his eyes, that DOES quite look the same, for some reason. Why are the face features the same as Madara's. How come he has so much knowledge about the past no other shinobi alive should be able to posses. Wow Itachi skope you GAIN new power with EMS - could it be Tobi's teleportation? Wow that would fit, make sence, wouldn't be super haxed as something so ridiculous as Rinnegan wow ... Tobi is madara it ALL fits, timeline, character everything"

    Chapter 475: "Now we know for sure that Danzo isn't Tobi, Never really suspected danzou "

    Chapter 501: "How the heck does Tobi know so much about Minato's ability?? Interesting since Obito knew SQUAT it even supports the theory that it is Madara only someone with unworldly knowledge could know something like that"

    Chapter 502: "So Tobi didn't claim to be Madara... but he said Madara wasn't dead? Huh. I guess he could be anyone at this point. Or he is just messing around"

    Chapter 559: "Madara was Kabuto's trump card, no surprise. So Tobi's not the real Madara. Were the Rinnegan his originally? Was he actually Izuna?"

    Chapter 594: "Wait a sec... why's he saying that stuff to Kakashi and Guy? Don't tell me... THAT KISHI HAS CHANGED HIS MIND"

    Chapter 595: "It's Obito. Not sure how, but that's him."

    Chapter 596: "Definitely Obito. I guess that stuff about being Madara was a huge red-herring."

    Chapter 597: "Okay, we get it, it's Obito. Take off the mask and give us an explanation."

    Chapter 598: "Mask's off. That's crazy that he attacked Minato. Well, he was taller than Kakashi in the gaiden. Obito wasn't supposed to be born when Toni was controlling Mizukage. How could this be? How come he was able to grow so fast in half a year, gain so much strenght"

    Chapter 599: "Yes, we knew it was Obito from like 5 chapters ago. Explain please. Wait, why is Minato already Hokage?"

    Chapter 600: "We get that he's Obito, Madara doesn't need to say it. Explain please. Well, I guess Hashirama genes + breaking spacetime continuum would explain it - which would be really cheap. Or fuck it I am Kishi and I actually don't remember my timline deal with it people"

    That's how I see it
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  3. #48
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Krina29's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Come on guys stop fighting. Well yeah it is obito it doesn't really make sense but it will, eventually. Naruto is jumping from mistery to mistery. If it was Izuna for example (I believed it was Izuna) it would not be such a mistery but it would make a lot of sense. But obito...it awakes lots of questions why?, how? etc. Maybe that was kishi's reason, for now I don't really like tobi being obito but I have to admit that it was already hinted. It is just Naruto's style.

  4. #49
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    I think more like 5 or 6 months has passed.

    I want disagree with that until i see Sasuke in another battle after coming to his senses.
    Dunno, Kishi hardly gave us any indication on the matter.

    True enough, even though I believe its not on his personality to do so. Also, I believe Kishi wants to distanciate Sasuke from Itachi little by little

    Quote Quote:
    It would be cool, but the odds of Sasuke gaining the elders sons eyes are very very slim. The manga hasn't ever carried a conversation about them, or mentioning them outside of that ONE photo they showed of the elder son.
    I know, one can dream right?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's not necessarily a retcon. Maybe Tobirama chose not to because of morals. This can actually go both ways, either a retcon or the creator choosing not to keep himself as he had to trust the next generation.

    And actually, it would have been useless either way since Hiruzen was gonna seal his soul in the Death Reaper.
    Morals?
    If Hiruzen didn't sacrifice his life, Konoha would've been destroyed by both him and Hashirama, I doubt he would've cared for morals.

    I was talking about when they had free will, as in before Oro stuck his kunais with the talisman in their skull. Since all it takes is a single hand-seal, I believe Tobirama would be faster. Hell if Madara knows how to get out of it, why wouldn't Hashirama as well?

    Quote Quote:
    As a shinobi, I would say Kakashi's one of the best. He's basically versatile and can do almost everything but sense chakra. I don't think even Minato has shown the kind of versatility that Kakashi has, and Itachi certainly hasn't in the few appearances he's made. Though in terms of fighting, he, Kakashi, and Sasuke are quite possibly versatile as they can employ ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu.

    Though, I still stick by my statement that Minato's the deadliest ninja and one of the most dangerous.
    All we saw from Yondaime are either stomps, half-fights or a single fight lasting less than 1 chapter.
    Kakashi instead we saw from day 1, we saw him grow alongisde the other, and become among the strongest.
    In versatility I agree, yet I place Itachi above both Kakashi and Sasuke because he can use Genjutsu outside the Sharingan.
    I completely agree with you on the statement above, Yondaime is indeed the deadliest one, hell he transformed a kunai, a seemingly useless tool, in one of the most haxed tools of death

    Quote Quote:
    Pfft, Sasuke before he defected was 100 shades of cool. See how girls chased after him? Even Temari wanted some action. Minato was just known as a girly-man until he was older.
    I was talking about a cool head, not coolness in general even though Yondaime is pretty cool, with the cape and all.
    Still the Sasuke in the last movie version would be the best character this manga would've ever seen


    Quote Originally Posted by Krina29 View Post
    Come on guys stop fighting. Well yeah it is obito it doesn't really make sense but it will, eventually. Naruto is jumping from mistery to mistery. If it was Izuna for example (I believed it was Izuna) it would not be such a mistery but it would make a lot of sense. But obito...it awakes lots of questions why?, how? etc. Maybe that was kishi's reason, for now I don't really like tobi being obito but I have to admit that it was already hinted. It is just Naruto's style.
    Let's all give each other a hug

    Still if Kishi really planned ahead the whole Tobito thing, he would've just needed to increase the timespan between events:
    make the Kyuubi attack later, make Obito and Kakashi older, make the whole Yagura thing happen earlier.
    And if Nagato indeed received Madara's eyes, make it happen in a timespan where Obito could fit in
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; September 09, 2012 at 05:49 AM. Reason: emoticons disabled for no reason

  5. #50
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Krina29's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    We have to accept it there is nothing more we could do.
    P.S. I still hope Izuna merged with Obito )

  6. #51
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Still if Kishi really planned ahead the whole Tobito thing, he would've just needed to increase the timespan between events:
    make the Kyuubi attack later, make Obito and Kakashi older, make the whole Yagura thing happen earlier.
    And if Nagato indeed received Madara's eyes, make it happen in a timespan where Obito could fit in
    That would require him to rewrite whole manga it's easy Kishi hasn't planned it when he started writing Naruto PERIOD (if tobito is one person throughout the whole manga and he is not breaking spacetime continuum )
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    I am mad because Kishi got the time wrong (Obito died before Minato became Hokage and yet.....his face was on the mountain on the panel where young Obito was looking up on the mountain).....

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    some one mentioned it and I agree, maybe the Kamui dimension is outside of their space time, so maybe Tobito who would have been 13 got not only another eye but would have been trained/genjutsu'd by Madara who uses the Rinnegan and forcefully advances Tobito's eye doujutsu, or maybe Tobito's predecessors had a similar ability so Madara helps him awaken it and they both go to kumui's dimension where Madara trains him.


    thought it could be Obito but I was hoping it wasn't seeing as how it would have been so lame and lo and behold it is soo lame.

  9. #54
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by kthy0056 View Post
    Because it's friggin' Naruto, not Crime and Punishment. Why the hell would we talk about common sense and logic in a narrative that never really featured those? You have no idea how ridiculuous the statement "let's use common sense" sounds when we talk about Tobi's identity. How exactly does it make more sense that Madara survived Hashirama's battle, outlived him, his wife (known for her huge lifespan), gained Rinnegan, lived a life of secrecy and was killed at some random point? Why is that so much more logical than Obito surviving, growing incredibly strong in a short time, reading the history of his clan on the Uchiha tablet and so on? For me, they're equally idiotic with the difference that Obito was foreshadowed as being Tobi a very long time ago.
    If your answer to that question is "magic", then the entire conversation is pointless. Kishimoto is an escapist author that writes a manga for the tween audience. Even by shounen standards Naruto is not mature and deep. He's not thinking things through as much as you think he does.
    Same reason that Obito = Tobi theorists are telling others to do: wait for explanation. Madara survived thanks to Izanagi, his strong chakra allowed him to outlive Mito, and he was able to live in secret because he was assumed dead. We saw Obito die, who couldn't have gained Mangekyo, and even if he did, couldn't have survived. Nor would he have been able to get so strong when he was weak... even Sasuke and Naruto never got that strong in three years. Tobi wasn't foreshadowed as Obito... he was more foreshadowed as Madaraa UNTIL we saw Madara revived.

    Naruto isn't mature and deep? You haven't read Part I, have you? While it may not be mature and deep now, it definitely was in Part I. Kishi has obviously thought some things through but decided to change his mind, as seen with Tobi's identity. And you're kinda contradicting your statement since you said Tobi was foreshadowed as Obito even back in Kakashi Gaiden, meaning Kishi did think things through.

    in any case, it doesn't change the fact that Kishi did another fan service.

    Quote Quote:
    That's what you don't understand. Naruto was not an achievement in storytelling in Part 1, in Part 2, before this war, ever. Your mind(I don't mean just you, M3J ... I mean everyone) is simply clouded by nostalgia of the good memories when most of you enjoyed the manga for what it was. Not to mention how lots of people criticized various stuff before the war as well since part 2. Just go back in the archive and see the same kind of attitude exhibited by other people.
    That has nothing to do with me not wanting Tobi to be Obito. like I said, if there's a good explanation, then I'll accept it. So far, there has been no good explanation. The only explanation I can think of htat makes sense is that Obito was already an evil, talented Uchiha who pretended to be otherwise.

    I won't deny criticizing Part II though.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, compare this page with this one. See how many inconsistencies and problems Naruto has as opposed to 20th Century Boys (sure, Naruto has a larger fanbase, but still), a manga that's usually regarded as by most people.

    The anger is pointless once you realize that.
    Actually, that site doesn't look like anything other than complaints without much thought. Some inconsistencies and problems listed can be rationalized or explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    No, I'm afraid it was incredibly accurate.
    Maybe for some people, but for most, it definitely wasn't.



    Quote Quote:
    Right, you're upset and not thinking clearly.
    Nice try taking that sentence out of context and changing the whole meaning of it.



    Quote Quote:
    No. You are being illogical. You were tricked by the author into thinking Tobi couldn't possibly be Obito. You are upset that you were tricked by the author, and that the trick hasn't been explained yet. (Whether it will be a good explanation or not is debatable. Also debatable is whether the trick was good in the first place.)
    That makes no sense when the author himself has shown that Tobi can't be Obito. It was after the war started that Kishi decided to trick us by makign Tobi as Obito.



    Quote Quote:
    You continue to appeal to logic. Yet you are being totally illogical. The author has not given the explanation of how it's possible that Tobi is Obito. Do you honestly think it would be logical for the author to give the explanation before revealing Tobi's identity?? It has been one whole chapter since the reveal. If the series ended without an explanation, then yes that would be quite disappointing. But it hasn't.
    It's not being illogical considering there's a very low chance of the explanation being good. Obito would have had to been found, and if Zetsu was sent to spy on him... then why? Why choose Obito? Another theory is that he awakened MS and went to another dimension. Yeah, not gonna save him because he doesn't get healed... he'd just die in the other dimension, or under the rocks considering he can't stay there for more than five minutes.

    Even if Obito was saved, he'd still have few weeks needed to recover even with Zetsu, at the least. That leaves him with about one to one and half years to get good enough to give Minato challenge and come up with a plan to separate Minato from Kushina, as well as have the power or chakra needed to free the Kyuubi from Kushina, which requires seals. All this from a loser shinobi who got scared when a bunshin attacked him. Not only that, but Kyuubi somehow knew Tobi when he said "you!", although he's never met Obito before.

    And then, Kishi drew bag under Tobi's eye the two times we saw a bit of his face. Then the last two chapters, there was no bag. This is not a mistake, that's like making Naruto's hair black and saying he's Hashirama Senju's descendant. Fan service and changing his mind in middle of the story just to make Naruto is a Senju theorists and even Minato is Tsunade's son theorists happy.

    Quote Quote:
    And fan service? I'm not aware of any Obito fans, although maybe there were some. Logically, I don't see how focus on a character who has never polled very high on Naruto popularity contests would be "fan service."
    Have you read my post...? Or are you misunderstanding me on purpose to make my argument look less credible?



    Quote Quote:
    You are mistaken. First, we all read chapter 599. Tobi is Obito, it's not a theory. And on the last page of chapter 600, Madara calls Tobi Obito. So... ignoring logic? No. No, no, no. You are ignoring the actual manga itself so you can continue to be upset.
    Before chapter 599, it was a theory that Tobi is Obito. Before the war, all signs pointed to Madara. After Tobi got the Rinnegan and before Madara was summoned, Kishi obviously changed his mind to make Tobi someone else, whereas it may have been Madara. Between getting Rinnegan to now, Kishi obviously changed his mind and decided to make Obito be Tobi.

    And so? Itachi called Tobi Madara. Tobi said he was Madara. I think even Konan and Nagato called Tobi Madara. Madara calling Tobi Obito doesn't mean it's a fact.

    I'm not ignoring the actual manga, I'm just not blindly believing anything that is said.



    Quote Quote:
    No. It does make sense. When Tobi was first introduced, it looked pretty obvious that it might be Obito somehow. Only later were red herrings thrown in to make us think it had to be totally impossible that it was Obito. So it's pretty clear that Tobi was always supposed to be Obito. Now, was Tobi always meant to be the final villain? Who knows.
    Apart from hair, it was not obvious at all it could be Obito. If Tobi didn't have bag under his eye or if Obito had bag instead of Tobi not having bags at last second, it may have been more obvious. I don't think anyone even thought of Tobi until way later. Tobi wasn't meant to be Obito before Tobi got the Rinnegan. Afterwards, who knows when Kishi changed his mind.

    Quote Quote:
    Common sense? Logic? The main character is supposed to be a ninja, yet wears a bright orange jumpsuit and attacks with bright glowing energy balls while shouting the name of the attack... That is just the tip of the iceberg of crap that doesn't make any goddamn sense. I could go on for weeks. But are you complain about things like that? No.
    Naruto himself lacks common sense. And technically, it's not a bright glowing energy ball. Though, Kishi changed everything in Part II from being an actual ninja (which only Kakashi still is) to making it more like DB or DBZ.

    Quote Quote:
    The funny thing is, people are so quick to rationalize away stuff like that. But not for Tobi's identity? You only rationalize things when it suits you. And you are being illogical because of that.
    Wrong. I rationalize things even when I hate it. I've even to some degree rationalized the potential of Obito being Tobi, as full of holes as that idea is. I've rationalized on stuff that I've disagreed with, and things i don't like. So yeah, try again.

    Quote Quote:
    Chapter 8: "Oh, Kakashi's friend died? I wonder if we'll get to see what happened, it seems to be pretty important to the series."

    Chapter 238: "Ah, we finally get to see what happened to his friend, Obito."

    Chapter 244: "Killed by a rock? What? With a medic ninja right there wouldn't he pull through? Well whatever, RIP."
    It is important considering the friend is the reason why Kakashi got his Sharingan and became who he is... considering Kishi planned that far ahead to make Obito the drivign force behind Kakashi's personality.

    Considering he couldn't be pulled out of a rock, and that even Tsunade wasn't able to save Dan, no, he wouldn't be able to pull through just because there's a medic ninja who wasn't even jounin. Not to mention, no time because the were in a war, bein attacked by enemies.

    Quote Quote:
    Chapter 281: "Hey, that looks waaaay too much like Obito. The hair, personality, the eye not taken by Kakashi... Maybe he survived somehow and is spying on Akatsuki while working for Konoha or something."

    Chapter 364: "Wait... did Tobi say he was Madara or just had his power, like his chakra or something? I guess it could still be Obito, but I don't think he'd be a bad guy. Either way, he does have a Sharingan in the right eye."
    The personality isn't like Obito's. Tobi was goofy, Obito was an idiot. And, the rock landed on Obito's right eye, it should have been damaged.

    Quote Quote:
    Chapter 397: "Woah, look at those scars... or are those wrinkles? I thought Madara had big ol' bags under his eyes, that doesn't quite look the same, for some reason. I guess Obito would have scars on that side of his face, but Tobi's saying he's Madara. But he keeps the mask on, so who knows. Could be anyone I guess."
    The right side of Tobi's revealed face looked more like wrinkles back then. Which would make sense if he was Madara, considering how old Madara must have been.

    Obito should also have scars on the bottom left of his face too, as apparently the rocks covered everything bout his left eye area. There should be scars on the left side of his face as well.

    The mask could be so no one saw Madara's damaged face, OR because someone wanted to keep faking being Madara, which made no sense either way as if Kisame recognized Tobi as Madara even with short hair, most others would do the same. Chances are, it was to establish fear by using the mask to make people remain uncertain.

    Quote Quote:
    Chapter 475: "Now we know for sure that Danzo isn't Tobi, it really was a red-herring after all. He did have a Sharingan under those bandages though."

    Chapter 501: "How the heck does Tobi know so much about Minato's ability??"

    Chapter 502: "So Tobi didn't claim to be Madara... but he said Madara wasn't dead? Huh. I guess he could be anyone at this point."
    Raikage had some knowledge on Minato's ability as well. Majority of the shinobi would, considering how much Minato spams that move. Even Tobi didn't know about Hiraishin v2, which Obito should have knowledge of.

    He never denied being Madara either.

    Quote Quote:
    Chapter 594: "Wait a sec... why's he saying that stuff to Kakashi and Guy? Don't tell me..."
    Fuck with their minds, try to make them less determined to fight and make it easier for Tobi to get Naruto. Psychological battle. He did the same to Konan, and it was revealed Madara was alive well after Jiraiya met Nagato, so he can't have given Nagato Rinnegan. Tobi was either being vague and let Konan draw her own conclusion or he lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Morals?
    If Hiruzen didn't sacrifice his life, Konoha would've been destroyed by both him and Hashirama, I doubt he would've cared for morals.

    I was talking about when they had free will, as in before Oro stuck his kunais with the talisman in their skull. Since all it takes is a single hand-seal, I believe Tobirama would be faster. Hell if Madara knows how to get out of it, why wouldn't Hashirama as well?
    Tobirama and Hashirama were under Orochimaru's control, they had no free will so morals didn't matter. Either way though, whether Tobirama used the seal or not to free himself, he lost anyway as Hiruzen used the Death Reaper. Tobirama would not have had the time to do the seal. I thought it took more handseals though.

    Or, it's most likely that kishi didn't think that far ahead or bothered to and opted to retcon for fan service.



    Quote Quote:
    All we saw from Yondaime are either stomps, half-fights or a single fight lasting less than 1 chapter.
    Kakashi instead we saw from day 1, we saw him grow alongisde the other, and become among the strongest.
    In versatility I agree, yet I place Itachi above both Kakashi and Sasuke because he can use Genjutsu outside the Sharingan.
    I completely agree with you on the statement above, Yondaime is indeed the deadliest one, hell he transformed a kunai, a seemingly useless tool, in one of the most haxed tools of death
    We saw more than that. Remember when Minato complimented Kakashi on stopping the group? He either knew there was an enemy there or he was pleased that Kakashi was cautious. We also saw him able to sense others. Though I guess as you said, we didn't see enough to determine anything else.

    True, but we haven't seen Itachi do other non-combat stuff like Kakashi has, like tracking.



    Quote Quote:
    I was talking about a cool head, not coolness in general even though Yondaime is pretty cool, with the cape and all.
    Still the Sasuke in the last movie version would be the best character this manga would've ever seen
    Oh. Sasuke Part I had cool head too. :x

    Minato was the only one who rocked the cape. Naruto's cape was ugly with the color scheme.

  10. #55
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Tobirama and Hashirama were under Orochimaru's control, they had no free will so morals didn't matter. Either way though, whether Tobirama used the seal or not to free himself, he lost anyway as Hiruzen used the Death Reaper. Tobirama would not have had the time to do the seal. I thought it took more handseals though.

    Or, it's most likely that kishi didn't think that far ahead or bothered to and opted to retcon for fan service.
    Madara did one, and both Tobirama and Hashirama had free will until Oro stick those kunais in their head.
    What binds them is the talisman, otherwise they are ninja revived by a jutsu.

    Quote Quote:
    We saw more than that. Remember when Minato complimented Kakashi on stopping the group? He either knew there was an enemy there or he was pleased that Kakashi was cautious. We also saw him able to sense others. Though I guess as you said, we didn't see enough to determine anything else.

    True, but we haven't seen Itachi do other non-combat stuff like Kakashi has, like tracking.
    Considering how Yondaime could tell how many people where in an area only by putting a finger on the ground ( a skill only Tobirama was showed to be able to do ) I don't doubt that he has fine senses.
    Also I believe every great ninjas have extraordinaries senses, Hiruzen could locate Hashirama and Tobirama by smell, Itachi too, if I recall right, followed the decoys Karin created with Juugo's birds by smell


    Quote Quote:
    Oh. Sasuke Part I had cool head too. :x

    Minato was the only one who rocked the cape. Naruto's cape was ugly with the color scheme.
    It isn't even comparable, Yondaime mantained a cool head and thought ahead in a catastrophic situation like the Kyuubi attack, Sasuke crumbled under pressure time and time again.
    What he did during that night is unparalled imho

  11. #56
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Madara did one, and both Tobirama and Hashirama had free will until Oro stick those kunais in their head.
    What binds them is the talisman, otherwise they are ninja revived by a jutsu.
    Why would either -rama want to remain as Edo Tensei, though? It doesn't go with their ideals - trust the next generation and all that stuff. Hashirama probably thought Edo Tensei was a no-no jutsu while Tobirama thought ends justified the means. Or he never knew about that, and Madara was just making a gamble. I dunno, I can see different explanations for this without making it a plothole no jutsu or asspull.



    Quote Quote:
    Considering how Yondaime could tell how many people where in an area only by putting a finger on the ground ( a skill only Tobirama was showed to be able to do ) I don't doubt that he has fine senses.
    Also I believe every great ninjas have extraordinaries senses, Hiruzen could locate Hashirama and Tobirama by smell, Itachi too, if I recall right, followed the decoys Karin created with Juugo's birds by smell
    Oh, and don't forget how he reacted to Tobi sneaking up behind him. That was probably one of the most epic things I've seen, and I'm taking him appearing in Naruto's mind and Naruto saving Sakura from Sasuke into account.

    Not necessarily extraordinary. Hiruzen and Kakashi were the only ninjas shown to track by smell, not counting the whatever Kiba's clan name is. Itachi never followed the decoys, that was Kakashi, Kiba, and the dogs who tracked by smell. Itachi and Orochimaru are other ones who showed great sense, and Itachi maybe even better sensing abilities than anyone not sensor. He was able to recognize Sasuke without looking at him, and he was able to hit two Naruto clones spot-on without looking back or up. One thing that contradicts him being able to sense is that he didn't sense Sasuke being alive or using chakra to create a kawarimi, but he could have been pretending. Which itself doesn't make sense as he should have been able to avoid Sasuke' fireball jutsu completely.

    Have we seen any other ninja show the kind of sensing ability that the ones mentioned above showed? Orochimaru even knew about Sai using kage bunshin.




    Quote Quote:
    It isn't even comparable, Yondaime mantained a cool head and thought ahead in a catastrophic situation like the Kyuubi attack, Sasuke crumbled under pressure time and time again.
    What he did during that night is unparalled imho
    When has he? The only time I remember was when he was against Zabuza before he and Naruto teamed up and when he first met ORochimaru. It took Naruto to slap some balls back onto him. In fights though, Sasuke has shown to be pretty cool-headed and smart. Once he got his head back, he didn't so badly against Orochimaru.

    I don't think it's unparalleled but Minato was certainly amazing.



    Did we just go off topic?
    Last edited by M3J; September 10, 2012 at 12:55 PM.

  12. #57
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Why would either -rama want to remain as Edo Tensei, though? It doesn't go with their ideals - trust the next generation and all that stuff. Hashirama probably thought Edo Tensei was a no-no jutsu while Tobirama thought ends justified the means. Or he never knew about that, and Madara was just making a gamble. I dunno, I can see different explanations for this without making it a plothole no jutsu or asspull.
    Its actually a retcon, Kishi retconned that the victim of Edo Tensei can free himself.
    And they would be sealed if they didn't want to be Edos forever, without sealing masters like Jiraiya and Yondaime the alliance still devised a sealing jutsu pretty easily

    Quote Quote:
    Oh, and don't forget how he reacted to Tobi sneaking up behind him. That was probably one of the most epic things I've seen, and I'm taking him appearing in Naruto's mind and Naruto saving Sakura from Sasuke into account.

    Not necessarily extraordinary. Hiruzen and Kakashi were the only ninjas shown to track by smell, not counting the whatever Kiba's clan name is. Itachi never followed the decoys, that was Kakashi, Kiba, and the dogs who tracked by smell. Itachi and Orochimaru are other ones who showed great sense, and Itachi maybe even better sensing abilities than anyone not sensor. He was able to recognize Sasuke without looking at him, and he was able to hit two Naruto clones spot-on without looking back or up. One thing that contradicts him being able to sense is that he didn't sense Sasuke being alive or using chakra to create a kawarimi, but he could have been pretending. Which itself doesn't make sense as he should have been able to avoid Sasuke' fireball jutsu completely.

    Have we seen any other ninja show the kind of sensing ability that the ones mentioned above showed? Orochimaru even knew about Sai using kage bunshin.
    Jiraiya, since the guy was a master infiltrator.
    In more ways than one
    Still Kakashi showed more as an adult, the guy sneaked up to Kakuzu, a centenary S rank ninja who fought against Hashirama and survived.

    Quote Quote:
    When has he? The only time I remember was when he was against Zabuza before he and Naruto teamed up and when he first met ORochimaru. It took Naruto to slap some balls back onto him. In fights though, Sasuke has shown to be pretty cool-headed and smart. Once he got his head back, he didn't so badly against Orochimaru.

    I don't think it's unparalleled but Minato was certainly amazing.


    Did we just go off topic?
    Also against Gaara, and against Naruto when the latter mocked him.
    Still he was 13 years old, he's perfectly justified to be emotional.

    Yondaime in that night did:
    -defended his child against a surprise attack
    -defended his wife from sure death
    -defended the village against Kyuubi
    -defeated Tobi
    -neutralized Kyuubi together with Kushina
    -devised a plan to stop Tobi, use the Kyuubi and possibly save the Narutoverse
    -devised the best way for Naruto to use Kyuubi's chakra, sealing half in himself and sealing the other half with one of the strongest seals while half-dead
    -sealed part of his chakra and part of his wife's chakra inside their son so they could guide him in obtaning Kyuubi's chakra
    -creating a key for the seal and leaving with it all the informations so Jiraiya and Hiruzen could help Naruto along the way

    We are not:
    Kishi retconning Edo Tensei is bad writing

  13. #58
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Marcin00's Avatar
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Well, there's something that bothers me in chapter 599 and it's Kakashi, how the hell can he look here...

    - http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/599/11

    Older then in the Kakashi Gaiden?! Because there he look much younger than in those flashbacks. I know Kishimoto can't really drawn the age on their faces, or on their entire bodies, but this is just too much, not to mention, that Minato was Hokage before the war .
    Last edited by Marcin00; September 10, 2012 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #59
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcin00 View Post
    Well, there's something that bothers me in chapter 599 and it's Kakashi, how the hell can he look here...

    - http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/599/11

    Older then in the Kakashi Gaiden?! Because there he look much younger than in those flashbacks. I know Kishimoto can't really drawn the age on thier faces, or on thier entire bodys, but this is just too much, not to mention, that Minato was Hokage before the war .
    i read some where that maybe in the kumui dimension times moves faster. Tobito goes there for a week our time but it's a year or two kumui time.

  15. #60
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: People are mad at Kishimoto for no reason.

    actually we have been all stupid ... the manga still makes perfect sense

    did you guys forget that everything can be explained with hashirama cells?
    madara gave obito hashirama cells , saving his life and dramatically increasing his growth span (he grew like 10 years in few months) .
    obito also got Mangeyku sharingan because hashirama cells allow you to skip the requirement (killing your best friend or whatever)
    another thing hashirama cells did is allow him to go back in time and give nagato the rinnegan , it also allowed him to go back in time and change kakshi's life because he didnt like the idea of kakashi being a junin at the age of 6 .
    cookiehand is also best smiley because it has hasirama's DNA
    THE UCHIHA LOGIC:
    "brother follows hiw on path? destroy konoha " uchiha sasuke
    "the village wants you not to interfere with politics? coup-d'etat" uchiha fugaku
    "coup-d'etat on the way? obliterate entire clan" uchiha itachi
    "clan wants to make peace? destroy everyone everywhere" uchiha madara
    "10 years old crush dead?infinite tsukyumi" uchiha obito



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