Naruto 602 Discussion

[Rikudou King]

So, Obito's chakra + hashirama's DNA = Obito's chakra?

Is that what you mean?

And what do you mean about minato used his intelligence to plan ahead in order to defeat tobi? You got it wrong pal, Minato just believed on jiraiya's prophecy. And kushina is already dying. In fact, minato clearly sacrificed his life to be with kushina while leaving his son a power to protect the ninja world.

Having another's Dna doesn't change a person's chakra. Orochimaru and Danzo showed that. Heck, anyone with the Cursed Seal is proof.

Minato outright stated that he was implanting the Kyuubi to, in addition to maintaining the balance between the villages, enable Naruto to use it's power to defeat Tobi. But not only are the Bijuus not apparently critical to maintaining the balance between the villages, but even with full access to the Kyuubi's chakra, Naruto is barely having any effect, and the little effect he is having is solely due to Kakashi's Kamui.

Also, how would you presume Minato sacrificed his life to be with Kushina when their souls would be going to two separate places? You really consider Minato so selfish that he would abandon his living son to be with his dead wife?

Well, if madara's EMS can read more on uchiha's tablet than the MS, then maybe madara needs hashirama's dna to evolve his EMS to rinnegan. Or maybe it was madara's theory after reading the tablet that combining the senju and uchiha's dna will grant him the power of the sage. So, it safe to assume that madara always wanted hashirama's DNA to surpass/defeat him.

Madara was by all accounts the one who wrote the tablet, judging by what he said to Kabuto. Not to mention, that the tablet speaks about the power of MS, which wasn't possessed by the Uchiha clan til Madara and Izuna. Regardless, he clearly didn't always want it, else he would have obviously attempted to grab it long before he actually did.

Well said, i agree with u in the Minato part...somehow i think Madara desired Hashi's cell. Perhaps i went a bit out of the line when i talked about a quest but in my opinion Madara wanted the cells to achieve a greater power

He may have developed a desire for them during said final battle when he was losing in order to not come away empty handed, but seeing as it was implied they had fought dozens of times before then, if Madara had actually been going with that goal in mind, he should have had plenty of opportunities before that final battle. Plus battle wouldn't have been the only meas to grab some, seeing as they were both living in Konoha and thus would have had the opportunities to secretly gather it. Not to mention just grabbing a Mokuton clone, which would have been made of living cells...

[Murdock]

I believe you overanalyse...It's true that their mission was in Grass country and Obito died there but nothing indicates that Obito was found near Akatsuki hideout. I am sticking to manga facts. Madara declared that Obito was found near his hideout, next to the rock. Nothing less, nothing more. My conclusion of this chapter was that Obito used Kamui and covered a distance of small radius teleporting or slipping through the rocks.

It is a theory, but I consider it too far fetched.

Edit : How do you know Madara's hideout was akatsuki's hideout too???

just an assumption, the whole gedo mazou thing, hashirama plant or whatever you wanna call it seemed like a hard thing to move ... it all looks like an integrated root system thus unable to move ...

[number12michael]

just an assumption, the whole gedo mazou thing, hashirama plan or whatever you wanna call it seemed like a hard thing to move ... it all looks like an integrated root system thus unable to move ...

The place were tobi takes Kabuto to show him all the Zetsus is 100% the same place were Madara and Obito met.....a few things tho when obito and madara are there ...we cant see the Gedo, and the Hashirama clone plant thing is closer to the top(near were madara and obito are) yet when tobi shows that place to kabuto the hashirama plant is way down near the water(after you walk down all those stairs)

[synapse]

ANYHOW Obito had full blown kamui within a year of awakening sharingan. Any explanations for this other than Madara steroids or Hashirama cells?

I am guessing the reason Obito can spam Kamui and not be blind as a bat is Hash-man cells.

But he also says Danzo wasn't able to control "Hashirama's power". Are we to conclude that you need Uchiha juice to control Hashirama cells and Hashiarama cells to spam Uchiha techs?

[avantasian]

I'd take poorly hidden hide out over Mangekyo technique usage without activation of the Mangekyo any day. That boggles me honestly. How does that make sense to people but the activation of the Mangekyo from a two-tomoe Sharingan is a stretch in suspension of disbelief?

Thats not a problem. After all obito went straight to a 2 tomoe sharingan. So lets accept there is something special about his eyes. The problem is that all that happened in a fews minutes. From normal eyes to MS.

[Punisher6]

I do feel that the fight with obito has been a bit one sided especially since there's two jinchurikis fighting together with two highly ranked shinobi. Now to top it off an immortal madara who has limitless chakra and power is now facing them as well? If this fight becomes a win due to sasuke showing up and helping Naruto I would be pretty annoyed. Naruto and sasuke wouldn't have their fight. And the prophecy about Naruto being the one to bring peace wouldn't be fulfilled. Maybe Naruto will convince the real madara to join his cause somehow.....which would also be lame. Does anyone else think that sasuke will show up? Maybe all of team 7 will leave their posts to join this battle.
p.s maybe we will see kakashi and gai die. in the process of seeing this,maybe it would be enough trauma, to cause naruto to activate rinnegan. all the biju seem to think he is the reincarnation of the sage. it would only make sense that he gets some of the same abilities. it would also beat neat to see the sages weapons react to naruto as if they belonged to him in the first place. if he got to use them itd be even better and would also even out this fight. im thinking of the sealing drum thing that obito threw into the gedo mazo. that may be the only way to defeat madara.
P.s.s Maybe ichigo will be thrown into another dimension while sitting in the prison and appear in naruto. lol

[number12michael]

ANYHOW Obito had full blown kamui within a year of awakening sharingan. Any explanations for this other than Madara steroids or Hashirama cells?

I am guessing the reason Obito can spam Kamui and not be blind as a bat is Hash-man cells.

But he also says Danzo wasn't able to control "Hashirama's power". Are we to conclude that you need Uchiha juice to control Hashirama cells and Hashiarama cells to spam Uchiha techs?

did tobi also not say "danzo i have not seen u sense the night of the massacre" how did they meet

[gold349]

We have had akatsuki show many bases, granted the matzo 'main base' is the most important but it's not set in concrete that Obito didn't shift it from we're Madara is now to its recent confirmed anko position...I'd say it most likely obito's did move it, the hashirama spawn doesn't look the same as 'the truth about zetsu' chapter. Obito's finished 'zetsu' which Madara started, the matzo is moveable, Nagato summoned it, Pain summoned it to seal bijuus, obito himself summoned it so why couldn't the hashirama hive been moved?.

[LeidenReloaded]

So after rereading the chapter and thinking about Hints we were given.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/90010563/17

This is "Tobi" and the one we see right now is also this "Tobi" and Obito is still in the hideout control this clone. Why? Well if Obito implanted his sharingan into the clone he can use the MS and with it Kamui without risking the eye getting blind. And do to the fact the clone would be powered by the Masou it would explain why he can spam MS techniques without running out of Chakra. "Tobi" also stated that he is no one, just an empty shell, which sounds like some kind of a clone. And with using a clone he might be able to train his Eye faster with "trial and error" also the clone could be modified (maybe longer hair . Madara already said they could not leave the place with their bodies and healed or not the artifical body could still not be moved away from the masou as madara said.

just my theory.

[WEERG]

Well guessing when Madara said: "I left my eyes with someone els"
Guessing he means Nagato.

Madara will he cast a genjutsu on Obito to show him the past or some bullsh**e story or just manipulate, Obito's mind.

[LeidenReloaded]

Maybe the Uchiha clan tries to kill of Kakashi for having a sharingan and Rin simply gets killed the turmoil and this very moment is shown Obito via Tsukuyomi for a very long time which could be a reasion why he willingly helps to wipe out his own clan.

[mattiaildivino]

There is nothing in the story that states that you have to have the three-tomoe Sharingan to awaken the Mangekyo. it's very odd, I'll give you that but there are no rules against it. So using that as a reason for it being "unlikely" that he awakened the Mangekyo is not really valid. I don't see how it makes more sense for one with the Normal Sharingan to use a Mangekyo technique without even unlocking the Mangekyo. I mean, wouldn't that defeat the whole point of the Mangekyo in the first place?

you didn't read my post carefully . I said that it was unlikely,not that it was impossible. and as a proof,I pointed out the fact that sharingan is a story of evolution: 1,2,3 tomoes, MS (according to fugaku,that's the evolution of the sharingan),EMS and then rinnegan. yet,I aware of the fact that obito might have used kamui despite not having the 3tomoes.

[KiSwordsman]

you didn't read my post carefully . I said that it was unlikely,not that it was impossible. and as a proof,I pointed out the fact that sharingan is a story of evolution: 1,2,3 tomoes, MS (according to fugaku,that's the evolution of the sharingan),EMS and then rinnegan. yet,I aware of the fact that obito might have used kamui despite not having the 3tomoes.

I did in fact read your post carefully. Which is the exact reason why I never said that you said that it was impossible, but in fact unlikely. "Very unlikely" were the exact words, I believe. Here, Fugaku explains that the Mangekyo is a "higher" level of the Sharingan. unless I missed something, I'm not sure where he listed the stages. I will admit that I misinterpreted one line in your post. That's my bad.

[mattiaildivino]

I did in fact read your post carefully. Which is the exact reason why I never said that you said that it was impossible, but in fact unlikely. "Very unlikely" were the exact words, I believe. Here, Fugaku explains that the Mangekyo is a "higher" level of the Sharingan. unless I missed something, I'm not sure where he listed the stages. I will admit that I misinterpreted one line in your post. That's my bad.

eh,that's exactly what I was talking about . btw,I said "very unlikely" because I can't imagine how a "2tomoes-sharingan" (nay,"just awakened 2tomoes-sharingan) could use kamui notwithstanding the eye hadn't developed the 3rd tomoe yet. but of course,kishi can do as he wishes.

[gold349]

Hashirama's cell ®
It's a registered trademark nowadays, you can find it in Madara's super market, and there's a super promo : You buy a sample of Hashirama's cells, you get two Sharingans ® for free !

It's coming, the explanation as to why hashirama was king of nins. Tobirama aswell as any other from hashirama family are not worth as much as him...it has to be his unique bloodline but what of it?, why mokouton?...there has to be more to that aspect IMO, more to it than earth elemant and water element making trees and that this whole fascination with hashirama DNA alone over all else...it being so an important element in getting/gaining to near RS level power, it being made even more important now that Madara gained rinnegan the ultimate 'eye' due to it, the has to be some very good reason why hashirama only in history apart his copy had this.