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Thread: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #46
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Well.
    Nationals!Tezuka VS current Yukimura who no longer needs to be winning to Yip his opponent. You chose Tezuka? He would definetely get yipped if Sanada got Yipped and nobody was winning.

    And since Tezuka would get TnK due to having ''Everything he set out to win''.
    But there is no TnK. I see Yuki winning.

    I see Sanada defeating Irie.

    Why do you not see Hirakoba taking out Sengoku?
    If Hirakoba forced a new counter out of Fuji, why won't he take out Sengoku?
    Regionals!Fuji > Sengoku most likely.

    They are both in 6th Court. Which is the throw-away court with Kamio and Amane too.
    So their improvement shouldn't be any different from the other.

    @LetalHawk, if Irie shat on Nationals!Atobe, perhaps he could do some kind of damage to Nationals!Tezuka.

    ---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

    Hold on Kaoz, also explain why Shishido/Tanishi > Oshitari.Y/Kaidoh lol.

  2. #47
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    S2: Hirakoba vs Sengoku -> Sengoku

    I needed your help there man, Hirakoba was so OP as a singles 2, everyone was like "Big Habu owns everything" lol

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  4. #48
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    S2: Hirakoba vs Sengoku -> Sengoku

    I needed your help there man, Hirakoba was so OP as a singles 2, everyone was like "Big Habu owns everything" lol
    I feel sorry for Sengoku. He is so neglected. It wasn't just Big Habu.
    It was Habu as a standard Serve, and standard Smash and standard return.

    He can hit constant Habu's freely. And his skill was just great.
    Sengoku is weaker than Kamio not to mention.

  5. #49
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    I feel likes a full on double only tournament would be wicked awesome. Doubles in general are fun to debate than Singles. I'll be thinking of some more pair and ask the forum in the future sometimes myself.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  6. #50
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I feel sorry for Sengoku. He is so neglected. It wasn't just Big Habu.
    It was Habu as a standard Serve, and standard Smash and standard return.

    He can hit constant Habu's freely. And his skill was just great.
    That's why I said I still need Kaoz lol, I want him to explain that.

    Spoiler show

  7. #51
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    LOL, you're a true fan.
    I'm not. Those who are neglected I shall expose. Simple as that.

  8. #52
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    You don't love the forgotten bros anymore? Shame on you, you must be a spy working for Konomi.

  9. #53
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Unbeliveable, Irie vs Tezuka Irie? Seriously?

    That with TZ, plus Hyakuren and Saiki, would have lost? Not at all. Tezuka is likely to be stronger than Irie before unlocking POP. Just saying that Irie is stronger than Tezuka pre POP is really absurd, I won't think, and never, than Irie is and was stronger than Tezuka.
    Irie has very low power, so Hyakuren's effect would be minimal against him. On the flipside his technical abilities are very high which should be enough to overcome TZone. As for Saiki, it's called an "absolute prediction", whereas Irie can see through any prediction according to Oni.

    The only things Tezuka has left are ZSS and TPhantom, and he won't overuse either of them since they damage his arm. Then Irie should still have somewhat higher stats (not quite as much as during the team shuffle but still by a bit).

    So I don't see why you'd say Irie will definitely lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Well.
    Nationals!Tezuka VS current Yukimura who no longer needs to be winning to Yip his opponent. You chose Tezuka? He would definetely get yipped if Sanada got Yipped and nobody was winning.
    Still needs to return shots from what we know. Tezuka has the combination of Hyakuren and Saiki, which I believe to be enough to beat Yukimura.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I see Sanada defeating Irie.
    I think both Tezuka vs Irie and Sanada vs Irie are very close, and you could make arguments for either side. I just went with Irie here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Why do you not see Hirakoba taking out Sengoku?
    If Hirakoba forced a new counter out of Fuji, why won't he take out Sengoku?
    Regionals!Fuji > Sengoku most likely.

    They are both in 6th Court. Which is the throw-away court with Kamio and Amane too.
    So their improvement shouldn't be any different from the other.
    I don't think Regionals!Fuji > Nationals!Sengoku. It's kinda difficult for Sengoku because we haven't seen very much of him, but he has some good results in the nationals.

    Even if you discount the win against Sakata, he also beat the original Nagoya's S1. Those guys probably couldn't stand up to the foreigners, but at the same time they did make it to the SFs (and destroyed their QF opponent), so I think they could at least be on equal footing with most of Higa, if not better.

    To get into some more match specific stuff, Shukuchihou shouldn't be an issue for Sengoku. As we've seen in the Seigaku vs Higa matches, it's pretty easy to seal in Singles when you know how to do it. I don't see Sengoku having any trouble with the normal Habu either; he is more of a technical player (so his normal swings are probably smaller) and he has the motion vision to help him out.

    As for the Giant Habu, he only hit it once against Fuji/Kawamura and was completely worn out afterwards. Even with the improvement, I don't see him hitting it without trouble throughout the whole match.
    And once Hirakoba's spin shots have weakened, Sengoku most definitely has the upper hand. Shukuchihou cannot be used to cover the sides and Hirakoba isn't as fast as Kamio was, so Sengoku's attack pattern from back then would still work.

    Overall it should be close, but I see Sengoku edging out a win here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    They are both in 6th Court. Which is the throw-away court with Kamio and Amane too.
    So their improvement shouldn't be any different from the other.
    Indeed, there's no reason to assume their camp improvement is any different from each other, but I'm giving Sengoku credit for his regionals -> nationals improvements as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Hold on Kaoz, also explain why Shishido/Tanishi > Oshitari.Y/Kaidoh lol.
    Where should I start with this one... as you probably noticed, Shishido/Tanishi is pretty much SP++ (just as Marui/Kite is CP++) and especially lately I'm getting the feeling that if the playstyles match like that, their teamwork will be displayed as just as good as the original pair's. So Shishido/Tanishi have an advantage there imo.

    Next, neither Yuushi nor Kaidou have great power, so I can see them struggling with Big Bang (not necessarily aces, but they'll be on the defense).

    Their offense on the other hand is based on being unpredictable with their shots, but Shishido has outstanding reflexes, meaning he could probably catch up to Kaidou's shots even after seeing what they are (remember that he's the only guy who we've actually seen capable of returning a Synchro shot outside the G10, and at a much earlier point in the series on top of that), and I can see Inducement Formation being enough to limit Yuushi's shots.

    At the same time, the Rising Counter is still a potent offensive tool and Shukuchihou is actually useable in doubles.

    Overall I think that Shishido/Tanishi have the upper hand in the beginning and that it'll gradually shift towards Yuushi/Kaidou as the match progresses. It's mostly a matter of whether they can finish it before Kaidou's stamina advantage kicks in, although looking back at it, maybe there's a higher chance of this happening than not.

    So this is probably one of the matches I'd reconsider.

  10. #54
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    LOL Fuji is champion XD
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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  12. #55
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    I could easily let you know that Fuji is just as technical as Sengoku or likely more.
    Still pressured him.

    Secondly, if your giving Regionals -> Nationals improvement to Sengoku, just how much are you giving?
    Hirakoba wasn't all Habu. He was smashing and creating plays on his own.

    Also, Habu is unpredictable, as Kite has shown us. You don't know whether its a normal shot or a Habu.

    I don't see the evidence to assume Sengoku is suddenly going to be Hirakoba's level after he conceded 4 games to Richard Sakata.
    Richard Sakata is the man who was satisfied after intense hell mountain training that he could run in a Zig Zag.
    It says a lot. Sengoku is desperate for an upgrade.

    I don't see Nationals!Sengoku's improvement being that great.
    So he bt Nagoya's Singles 1.

    They could have easily planned to put out their strongest players in the later stages since it's been shown as a tactic in the series.
    I don't know why we should assume Schools from other Regions were as strong Higa if they haven't been included in the camp.

    (I personally wondered immediately at the start why weren't all the Quarter FInalists included in the Camp.)

    I want to talk about Gyro Laser. Why are we going to assume Shishido can return it when it shat on Kirihara and Yanagi couldn't?
    Especially if all snakes and the Gyro Laser come from the same stance?

    Kaidoh's Counter-punching lifted really highly in Nationals Finals by fighting by himself in matches while Inui collects.

    I don't see Ultra High Speed Rising Counter really taking many points off of Kaidoh and Yushi who should know Shishido well.

    Yushi's SSAS, DFDR etc. should take points. It raped Nationals!Momoshiro who is better than Shishido.

    A confident win for Kaidoh and Yushi.

  13. #56
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I could easily let you know that Fuji is just as technical as Sengoku or likely more.
    Still pressured him.
    When you think about it, Fuji figured it out pretty fast. It's true that it took 3 games, but due to the fact that it was doubles and Kawamura couldn't return it at all, it was really only half that time at most.

    And as much as you want to deny it, his enhanced vision gives Sengoku a tool that Fuji didn't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Hirakoba wasn't all Habu. He was smashing and creating plays on his own.
    Habu and Shukuchihou are his major selling points, he hasn't shown anything more amazing than people like Sengoku did outside of those techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Also, Habu is unpredictable, as Kite has shown us. You don't know whether its a normal shot or a Habu.
    How is that gamebreaking if you don't have a huge swing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I don't see the evidence to assume Sengoku is suddenly going to be Hirakoba's level after he conceded 4 games to Richard Sakata.
    Richard Sakata is the man who was satisfied after intense hell mountain training that he could run in a Zig Zag.
    I think we can all agree that those "upgrades" were rather questionable, and probably more of a way to express "everyone here leveled up" in two pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I don't see Nationals!Sengoku's improvement being that great.
    So he bt Nagoya's Singles 1.

    They could have easily planned to put out their strongest players in the later stages since it's been shown as a tactic in the series.
    I don't know why we should assume Schools from other Regions were as strong Higa if they haven't been included in the camp.
    The Nagoya regulars comfortably beat almost anyone they played in the nationals, unlike the other generic teams (who usually had close matches) we saw in the databooks and they were seeded. Tezuka (I believe) also described Nagoya in a positive light before the team shuffle for whatever it's worth.
    It's not like Higa was super amazing outside of Kite.

    And if Nanahara (the guy who lost to Sengoku) wasn't strong, what would be the point in giving us the results like that? What we see from Sengoku is him setting out to improve, then beating a superior version of the style he lost against and finally being the only one to beat the S1 of an apparently strong school.
    If that's not Konomi telling us, this guy got a lot stronger since we last saw him, it's just not shown because he's not the focus of the story anymore, I don't know what else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    (I personally wondered immediately at the start why weren't all the Quarter FInalists included in the Camp.)
    Probably because Konomi didn't want to bother introducing a bunch of new characters just to not do anything with them (since even if they're solid as I believe them to be, they aren't top).




    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I want to talk about Gyro Laser. Why are we going to assume Shishido can return it when it shat on Kirihara and Yanagi couldn't?
    Especially if all snakes and the Gyro Laser come from the same stance?
    It's only Tornado and Gyro that are hit from the same stance, which basically makes it a coinflip and kind of the same as Synchro. They are faster than whatever Oishi and Kikumaru could produce, but on the other hand the angle is worse and they are hit from the baseliner and not the net.

    Yanagi and Kirihara also only faced it for five points, so it's not implausible that they could have returned it after a while. Even if not, Shishido had special training to improve his reaction time. Just because he's inferior to Yanagi and Kirihara overall doesn't mean he is so in every aspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Kaidoh's Counter-punching lifted really highly in Nationals Finals by fighting by himself in matches while Inui collects.

    I don't see Ultra High Speed Rising Counter really taking many points off of Kaidoh and Yushi who should know Shishido well.
    Hard to say. Kaidou's counter punching improved, but Shishido's did so as well probably. Even if Kaidou can catch up to the rising counter now, I'm not convinced that he can hit the Tornado/Gyro combination in that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Yushi's SSAS, DFDR etc. should take points. It raped Nationals!Momoshiro who is better than Shishido.
    Momoshiro also tried to predict what Yuushi was going to do, which was prevented via Sealed Heart. It's a different situation than Shishido reacting to shots.

    Lastly, I'd like to emphasize Tanishi as well, who you didn't mentioned at all. Unlike in Singles, the presence of a second player makes sealing Shukuchihou much more difficult in Doubles. We've also seen that Yuushi struggles against power types.
    To top it off, I'll also point towards the combination aspect I brought up.

    I don't see it being a comfortable win at all.

  14. #57
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    So Sengoku off-screened a Nagoya player. He off-screened him so we don't know much.

    And the play style that he lost to before, he only just defeated 6-4. That's not a comfortable win at all.

    So he has Motion Vision. You're telling me Sengoku has better technique than Hirakoba?
    So he can see the shot perhaps better, but he can only be taking light swings.

    You're telling me light swings are enough to defeat Hirakoba? Why?
    Sengoku won't be smashing with Dunk Smash much since openings would be harder to create when returning constant Habu's.

    I don't see why currently at this stage in the storyline, Sengoku, who was said to have improved a bit,
    Just a bit, since the Speed Play still took 4 games off of him, should be given this big improvement.

    Konomi gave results for every single match that took place in the Nationals.
    So the point to giving results to us was to make the databook have more worth.

    He only edged over a 6-4 win. Not like he improved ''a lot''.
    Don't think we should suddenly assume Richard Sakata was better than Kamio either.

    Kamio > Sengoku too.

    Not sure why we should assume Habu's from Smashes, Serves and standard returns shouldn't cause any problems for Sengoku.
    This means you are saying Kikumaru > Sengoku really comfortably then.

  15. #58
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    I don't know why people short change Irie. World of Ice reveals any error as a function of technique/form/skill so Irie having no icicles implies he plays tennis flawlessly from a technical point of view. He clearly has the same 'return anything' property that Yukimura is often credited with. He's so fast that he can actually pick up a dropped racket and hit back another shot, something that's never been done before. Yes I know that doesn't actually seem like it'd be very hard, but no one has ever done it prior to this point. While no middle schooler has any category above 5, Irie has 3 categories above 5, including a 7 on mental. His skill/speed/mental are just unfathomably good compared to middle schoolers.

    In the long run his low endurance and power will probably hurt him against equal tier, but I don't see any middle schooler being able to take advantage of it at this point. Atobe certainly wasn't able to and armed with Atobe Kingdom he's perhaps the best offensive MS player right now, since right now there is literally no defense against AK. Oni is ranked ahead of him in the reserve team, so I can see some explanation like 'BJK can't be returned by tech' but certainly none of the MSer seem to have a move that'd punish Irie's lack of strength.

  16. #59
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Well.
    Nationals!Tezuka VS current Yukimura who no longer needs to be winning to Yip his opponent. You chose Tezuka? He would definetely get yipped if Sanada got Yipped and nobody was winning.
    What? Nowhere does it say Yukimura ever needed to be winning to Yip his opponent.

  17. #60
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    And the play style that he lost to before, he only just defeated 6-4. That's not a comfortable win at all.
    Well what do you expect? As much as we like to theorize it here, complete blowouts happen very rarely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    So he has Motion Vision. You're telling me Sengoku has better technique than Hirakoba?
    Maybe? There's absolutely nothing to suggest either having a better technique than the other. Not like it's actually relevant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    So he can see the shot perhaps better, but he can only be taking light swings.

    You're telling me light swings are enough to defeat Hirakoba? Why?
    Sengoku won't be smashing with Dunk Smash much since openings would be harder to create when returning constant Habu's.
    You're acting like Habu is some godly move. The ball just curves a bit after it bounces, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get used to it after constantly hitting it for a game or two. According to what Hirakoba said ("You can see it clearly already"), the shot even follows a set path, it's not like it's random like Rai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Konomi gave results for every single match that took place in the Nationals.
    So the point to giving results to us was to make the databook have more worth.
    Why have him win as the only person then? Why not have him lose as well, it's not like anyone would have been in an uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    He only edged over a 6-4 win. Not like he improved ''a lot''.
    Don't think we should suddenly assume Richard Sakata was better than Kamio either.
    So going from 6-7 against someone on city level to 6-4 against someone on national level is negligible? Sure why not.

    And whether Sakata was better than Kamio or not is something we can't say. He was probably faster though (at least before Moujuu).

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Kamio > Sengoku too.
    Because...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Not sure why we should assume Habu's from Smashes, Serves and standard returns shouldn't cause any problems for Sengoku.
    Yeah they'll cause problems for like two games maybe, not the whole match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    This means you are saying Kikumaru > Sengoku really comfortably then.
    What. Seriously where did this come from.

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