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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Oshitari Kenya

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  • Akutagawa Jirou

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Thread: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

  1. #16
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    This we don't know as of yet.
    We know that good technique can stop him from using it, but not if its easy to return. It's actually near impossible to return.
    Kenya winning, I believe is what will happen though.

    Still, although Kenya is now God's Speed with Perfect balance, it makes him an amazing 100m athlete like Eiji Kikumaru has referred him to Usain Bolt. It doesn't necessarily make him too much of a better tennis player.

    Kenya should win, only because he is good enough to lose 7-3 to Shiraishi.

    Jirou serve lets him get to the net real quick. The issue is does Kenya have the necessary technique to seal away his Volleying ability.
    This we do not know.
    I say Oshitari Kenya 6-3 win.
    Lol, you are saying "this guy is right, but Kenya still wins because he won 3 points against Shiraishi". We don't know if Jirou is good enough to take 3 points from Shiraishi, but he probably is. The 5 of you are focusing too much on those 3 points. This is Jirou vs Kenya not Kenya vs Shiraishi and Jirou vs Fuji. I made up a scenario in which Jirou wins this match, can't you do the same?
    Kenya can't do Hakugei, that's for sure.

    Edit: those 3 points are probably Konomi randomly saying "I'll make Shiraishi win, but I don't want a total beatdown... Yeah, 7-3 is fine."

    Edit 2: Now I'll discuss he same way you do. Jirou won without a problem against Kabaji, and Kabaji almost won against Nationals Tezuka... Do you see Kenya doing that?

    I know it sounds like a stupid comparission, and that's exactly how the 3 points thing sounds to me.
    Last edited by Hardy; September 12, 2012 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #17
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Jirou's serve was handled really easily. It wasn't that impressive.
    I'll break it down for you Eiji Kikumaru.

    Fuji showed us all you gotta do to keep your serve against Jirou is keep him at the baseline:
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...apter-141.html

    Which is a standard skill for any Counterpuncher. Since their style is based on consistency.

    Akutagawa fights back however, with his ability to reach the net thanks to how he serves.
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...apter-141.html
    And he can go even better than that with this:

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27039...apter-142.html

    So it is impossible for Kenya to give Akutagawa a 6-1 or 6-2.
    Since Kenya is without a Special shot, and its not like he is known for having great technique.

    They are in the same league. Kenya 6-3 win.

    This is because Akutagawa has a play style that is weak against Counterpunchers as they hit they try same type of shot constantly and wait to counter, instead of going out with the aim to attack.

  3. #18
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Jirou's serve was handled really easily. It wasn't that impressive.
    I'll break it down for you Eiji Kikumaru.
    It's not a hard to return serve, it's a slow serve that gives him enough time to reach the net, and then attack. Fuji countered that with Hakugei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Fuji showed us all you gotta do to keep your serve against Jirou is keep him at the baseline:
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...apter-141.html

    Which is a standard skill for any Counterpuncher. Since their style is based on consistency.
    That's when Jirou is not serving. I made it pretty clear that I didn't expect to see him winning any of the first games (when he's not serving).

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Akutagawa fights back however, with his ability to reach the net thanks to how he serves.
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...apter-141.html
    And he can go even better than that with this:

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27039...apter-142.html
    That's what I've been saying lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    So it is impossible for Kenya to give Akutagawa a 6-1 or 6-2.
    Since Kenya is without a Special shot, and its not like he is known for having great technique.

    They are in the same league. Kenya 6-3 win.

    This is because Akutagawa has a play style that is weak against Counterpunchers as they hit they try same type of shot constantly and wait to counter, instead of going out with the aim to attack.
    Thing is, Kenya isn't just a counter-puncher like Fuji (a guy that just retrieves, waits for the error), he's an aggressive counter-puncher (a guy that takes risks eventually, which is kinda stupid, because he doesn't have any strong shots. A defensive counter-puncher style would fit him a lot more).

    Anyhow, as almost anyone has already voted, it's pointless to discuss. I'll let him lose :/

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by Hardy; September 12, 2012 at 07:12 PM.

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Kenya took 3 points playing against Shiraishi. So what? Just because Kenya took 3 freaking points against Shiraishi doesn't make him automatically better.

    You are comparing too many matches. Reg Angry Fuji won easily against Jirou. Reg Fuji won by a little against MUGA KIRIHARA. Shiraishi was beating Reg Fuji JUST BECAUSE OF HIS PLAYING STYLE, which was completely effective against Reg Fuji. All these matches are completely different, in different situations.
    I think Shiraishi would have beat Jirou 6-0 also, not just Fuji. And way harder. I'm comparing 2 match, which shows my point to show the tier of the characters. Fuji was only rallying a normal shot to keep Jirou a bay. He just use Hakugei because he want to show it to Ryoma. It doesn't mean he have to. Sanada doesn't need to use Rai against that poor HS, but he did.

    Kenya taking 3 points off Shiraishi while one person FAIL to take any point off does make him better to me. It seem you and I have different metrics to decide this kind of thing, though.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  5. #20
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I think Shiraishi would have beat Jirou 6-0 also, not just Fuji. And way harder. I'm comparing 2 match, which shows my point to show the tier of the characters. Fuji was only rallying a normal shot to keep Jirou a bay. He just use Hakugei because he want to show it to Ryoma. It doesn't mean he have to. Sanada doesn't need to use Rai against that poor HS, but he did.

    Kenya taking 3 points off Shiraishi while one person FAIL to take any point off does make him better to me. It seem you and I have different metrics to decide this kind of thing, though.
    He had to use Hakugei to win Jirou's serves games. We have already discuss this in previous posts.

    " Shiraishi was beating Reg Fuji JUST BECAUSE OF HIS PLAYING STYLE, which was completely effective against Reg Fuji"
    BTW, Shiraishi would beat Kenya 6-0, easily.

    Read every single comment in this post, if you think there's something you can add, reply.

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Care to explain how it is perfect against Fuji? Shiraishi ability is to use his basic ability to defeat his opponent fair and square. And yet, Kenya get 3 points out of 10 off him. Fuji get at least 4*5=20. 0/20. Well, that seems equal. Jirou have trouble beating regional Fuji getting a point off Fuji even when Fuji doesn't train pre-national. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

    Fuji actually take 1 point off Jirou without using Hagukei in Jirou's serve game. He then proceed to use Hagukei. That does not means Fuji can't beat Jirou without using Hakugei.

    Even if he CAN beat Jirou by only using Hagukei. Shiraishi shut down that move like it's nothing. Kenya takes point off that Shiraishi which Regional Fuji+national training+4th counter cannot do.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  7. #22
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Care to explain how it is perfect against Fuji? Shiraishi ability is to use his basic ability to defeat his opponent fair and square. And yet, Kenya get 3 points out of 10 off him. Fuji get at least 4*5=20. 0/20. Well, that seems equal. Jirou have trouble beating regional Fuji getting a point off Fuji even when Fuji doesn't train pre-national. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

    Fuji actually take 1 point off Jirou without using Hagukei in Jirou's serve game. He then proceed to use Hagukei. That does not means Fuji can't beat Jirou without using Hakugei.

    Even if he CAN beat Jirou by only using Hagukei. Shiraishi shut down that move like it's nothing. Kenya takes point off that Shiraishi which Regional Fuji+national training+4th counter cannot do.
    "Read every single comment in this post, if you think there's something you can add, reply."

    "Anyhow, as almost anyone has already voted, it's pointless to discuss. I'll let him lose :/"

    You are not a very good reader aren't you? I don't care about this match anymore. We could keep discussing forever, I just don't want to.

  8. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    I favor jirou and like him more, but i dont know or think his personality is to improve himself much, have to wait for new manga chapters to see if he plays.
    i dont know much about kenya, but he did go through that losers training and he is fast. I think he played in the OVA
    where seigaku visited shintenhouji's school. forgot what he did. people tend to favor whom they like and know more,
    but i have to agree kenya wins, but by what margin and score I couldnt say.

  9. #24
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    As far as comparing how kenya got points on shiraishi and fuji ALMOST got completely bageled, Kenya has been playing with Shiraishi alot longer than fuji had, which obviously makes a difference. If you know what to expect out of someone, you will adjust your play accordingly.

    Also, in the Fuji shiraishi match, once Fuji actually got serious and played like he meant it, he won at least one game without using ANY new counters. He then proceeded to win another game with just the evolved counters. Then he busted out the 5th counter and almost made a complete comeback bagel on shiraishi, as it seemed shiraishi did not score any points until he saved match point defeating fuji's 5th counter.

    Another very small case against kenya is how he got completely slammed by Jasboru in the OVA match, which was referenced in the manga as well. And from what we saw in the doubles match, jasboru did not really have any stand out qualities, so if he bageled Kenya in a year where Yanagi says he was always slacking off and skipping practice, I don't really see kenya as that high of a player.

    Overall, I think he is much better rounded player, and his speed would win him the match against jirou. I give it a 6-4 just because jirou was able to beat Kabaji, and play decent with marui, a Rikkai Dai member.

  10. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Kenya is probably one of the most overhyped characters, so I'm going to go at it with the angle of Kenya and Jiro being on the same tier level. Kenya has speed. And....that's pretty much it.. Everything else he does is mediocre. Jiro is a great volley, and he beat Kabaji. Kenya most likely would not be able to beat Kabaji with speed alone. We have seen time and time again that it takes more than speed to win a tennis match *cough Richard cough*

    Jiro wins 7-5

  11. #26
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Thing is, Kenya isn't just a counter-puncher like Fuji (a guy that just retrieves, waits for the error), he's an aggressive counter-puncher (a guy that takes risks eventually, which is kinda stupid, because he doesn't have any strong shots. A defensive counter-puncher style would fit him a lot more).

    Anyhow, as almost anyone has already voted, it's pointless to discuss. I'll let him lose :/

    Spoiler show
    Nah, Pair Puri says he is in fact a Counter Puncher, this thread is the first time I have seen Offensive Counter Puncher.

    Also, Fuji didn't need Hakugei just to seal Jirou. He used Hakugei coz he wanted to take the game more seriously.
    Look here. He is sealing Jirou from using Magic Volley from Jirou's own service game in an instant with ease.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...hapter-141.htm
    Yeah he came back with a better approach, but Hakugei can't be needed. Fuji came out with the intent to annihilate that's all.

    Bottom line, you don't need a special shot just to prevent Jirou from hitting Magic Volley.
    You don't even need a special shot to seal Marui's Volleys, and Marui > Jirou. So how on earth would you need Hakugei just for Jirou, who hasn't even improved since Regionals.

    Regionals!Fuji handled it with ease.
    Here is Nationals!Kenya mocking Regionals!Fuji
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27213...apter-316.html

    It isnt about if everybody voted, its whether somebody can disprove the other.
    Magic Volley can be stopped easily Regionals!Fuji showed us.

    So in the long run, a solid Counter Puncher should win.

    I underestimated Jirou heavily here. 6-4 Kenya to win, or 7-5 Kenya to win.

    ---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Kenya is probably one of the most overhyped characters, so I'm going to go at it with the angle of Kenya and Jiro being on the same tier level. Kenya has speed. And....that's pretty much it.. Everything else he does is mediocre. Jiro is a great volley, and he beat Kabaji. Kenya most likely would not be able to beat Kabaji with speed alone. We have seen time and time again that it takes more than speed to win a tennis match *cough Richard cough*

    Jiro wins 7-5
    Beating Kabaji doesn't prove a thing. Kabaji will probably beat Shiraishi due to having more stamina.
    Kabaji will probably beat a lot of players. His power is very specific.

    Kabaji will probably lose to Mukahi since he likely cannot use Acrobatic Play as efficiently as Mukahi. And Kabaji is a simpleton who is like... programmed and can't help but copy his opponent.

  12. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Also, Fuji didn't need Hakugei just to seal Jirou. He used Hakugei coz he wanted to take the game more seriously.
    Look here. He is sealing Jirou from using Magic Volley from Jirou's own service game in an instant with ease.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27038...hapter-141.htm
    There's a problem with that url, I can't see it u.u

    Nevermind, I found that page...I'm mindfucked lol

    Edit: now I have this http://i22.mangareader.net/prince-of...nis-644331.jpg

    So yeah, Fuji needed Hakugei.
    Last edited by Hardy; September 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM.

  13. #28
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    There's a problem with that url, I can't see it u.u

    Nevermind, I found that page...I'm mindfucked lol
    To be honest, Since Jirou is a forgotten bro, its gonna be hard to argue for him.
    This will be the same for Sengoku and Davide too.

    We haven't seen them in action since Regionals lol.
    Going by what we have seen, Kenya should eventually be able to overcome Magic Volley after a long game. 7-5 or 6-4 to Kenya.
    But it definetely won't be an ass-kicking like others have said. They are in the same league since Kenya really has been portrayed as a guy with nothing but Speed.

  14. #29
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    To be honest, Since Jirou is a forgotten bro, its gonna be hard to argue for him.
    This will be the same for Sengoku and Davide too.
    I was thinking about that yesterday... like "how in hell am I going to defend Sengoku?, he's like a Momo, but less powerful and without JK" and I had no answer...

    So I hope he isn't in this tournament at all lol

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  16. #30
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 11 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Oshitari K. vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Edit: now I have this http://i22.mangareader.net/prince-of...nis-644331.jpg

    So yeah, Fuji needed Hakugei.
    He probably needed a lob and not specifically Hakugei. Kenya can probably hit lobs when the game reaches like 4-4 or 5-5.

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