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Thread: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

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    "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Its kinda funny how Narutos baddies are pretty much designed the same way :


    1.
    I was a young talented ninja but my parent died.
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side.
    I betrayed my village.
    I killed my master.
    I killed a shitload of innocent people
    My parents are still dead.

    2.
    I was a young talented ninja and the girl i loved died (after i died myself btw).
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side.
    I betrayed my village.
    Blamed my best friend.
    Became a godlike ninja in a blink of an eye.
    Created the most powerfull terrorist ninja organisation in the world.
    Manipulated and killed a lots of people.
    After that i decided to created the biggest war ever and a sad rogue ninja decided to help me.It was not planned.
    Its no big deal cause i was CLEARLY gonna win a war against the whole ninja world with my non upgraded zetsus and my sharingan.True Story.
    But it's cool cause he provided me the chakra of a tailed beast that i would never have access too by ressurecting some cools twins.
    Call me lucky !
    The girl is still dead.Oh did i told you that i have a dojutsu that can ressurect people with no side effects ? Pretty cool uh ?

    3.
    I was a young talented puppy and my master died.
    Well...before he died he told me "i know i'm gonna die but don't be afraid and be a good guy".
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side.
    I became a pure evil source of chakra and went on rampage.
    Some bad guy used genjutsu on me btw.
    I killed a lots of people.
    But a good guy freed me from this genjustu...
    ...so i killed him too (lol !).
    Oh it was one of the strongest ninja in the world.
    My master is still dead

    4.
    I was a young talented ninja and my whole clan died.
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side.
    I went rogue and my whole team came to rescue me 3 years later.
    I wanted to kill them all with kirin but someone stopped me.
    I killed my brother who was a bad guy like me.
    In fact my brother was a good guy and now i know that he destroyed
    the clan because my clan was trying to destroy my village, kill a lots of people and
    expose the ninja world to a giant war.
    So i decided to destroy my village, kill a lots of people and expose the ninja world to a giant war.Cause i'm clever.
    Someone resurrected my brother and he stopped one of the strongest bad guy in the world and told me that the pride of the clan was in my hands.
    So i resurrected the bad guy who tried to overtake my body...and my brother's body.
    My whole clan is still dead...so is my brother lol !

    5.
    I was a young talented ninja but my master died, my friend became a hero and i was nothing but a scared ninja in the end.
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side...
    ...to protect my village !
    I caused a lots of death in my village and did nothing to save my friend when some sad
    rogue ninja attacked us.2 times.
    An other rogue ninja allied with an other sad rogue ninja killed me.
    Now my village is in danger

    6.
    I was a young talented ninja but my parents and my best friend died in a war.
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side...
    ...and killed my master who was a good guy.
    Then i went to my master's village and killed everyone.
    My parents and my best friend are still dead.Oh did i told you that i have a dojutsu that can ressurect people with no side effects ? Pretty cool uh ?

    7.
    I was a young talented ninja but i was tricked into killing my own master/adotive mother.
    I was pretty sad so i went to the dark side...
    ...and joined an other sad guy.
    I killed a lots of people but the sad guy i joined died...
    ...killed by an other sad guy.
    So decided to help an other sad guy to make a huge war by resurrecting people with a forbidden jutsu.
    A good guy stopped me.I summoned him myself...bad luck :/
    My adoptive mother is still dead.Did i just told you that i can resurrect people ?

    8.
    I'm a bad guy and i have long hair.
    I'm the strongest ninja in the world !
    Seriously guys im pure evil and i'm not motivated by sadness.
    Did i told you how my main rival was cooler than me ? how my brother died ? how my whole clan rejected me ?
    Last edited by Minishin; September 05, 2012 at 03:31 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    I think in one of the missions following Obito's 'demise', Kakashi had to choose again between completing the mission (for the village) and saving Rin.

    It would appear that Kakashi chose 'completing the mission' this time, sacrificing Rin for the sake of the greater good.

    But in Obito's views, "people who abandon their comrades are worse than trash".

    Again, it all comes down to what priority a person is choosing in life. The village or your family / loved ones?

    Seriously, think about the backstory before opening your mouth to complain.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    I think in one of the missions following Obito's 'demise', Kakashi had to choose again between completing the mission (for the village) and saving Rin.

    It would appear that Kakashi chose 'completing the mission' this time, sacrificing Rin for the sake of the greater good.

    But in Obito's views, "people who abandon their comrades are worse than trash".

    Again, it all comes down to what priority a person is choosing in life. The village or your family / loved ones?

    Seriously, think about the backstory before opening your mouth to complain.
    and where does this 'backstory' come from?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rosebunse's Avatar
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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    and where does this 'backstory' come from?
    The entire manga. Read it.

    Though to be fair, someone really should make a flow-chart for this. It would be awesome!

    Also, Madara is annoying. Like, not just "annoying" in that way many villains are, but is legitimately annoying. I mean, does he strike anyone as that loser in high school who would complain about the hot girl in class not liking him while filing his Pokemon card collection?

    I mean, really, he's just annoying. He's the most evil person, but has almost no reason to complain since most of his problems actually were a direct result of him being a horrible jerk.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    The entire manga. Read it.

    Though to be fair, someone really should make a flow-chart for this. It would be awesome!

    Also, Madara is annoying. Like, not just "annoying" in that way many villains are, but is legitimately annoying. I mean, does he strike anyone as that loser in high school who would complain about the hot girl in class not liking him while filing his Pokemon card collection?

    I mean, really, he's just annoying. He's the most evil person, but has almost no reason to complain since most of his problems actually were a direct result of him being a horrible jerk.
    nah just pointing out his defensiveness was based on a 'backstory' that was never expressly penned

    there is no evidence as of yet on how rin died

    in any case, yea someone should make a flow chart. kishi's antagonists are too much copied off one another, he seems to have an obsessive hate for smart people

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    and where does this 'backstory' come from?
    Where do you think I get the line, "people who abandoned their comrades are worse than trash' from? Avengers?
    Last edited by Ryr; September 06, 2012 at 07:40 PM.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Where do you think I get the line, "people who abadoned their comrades are worse than trash' from? Avengers?
    how does that imply the particular circumstance you stated?
    Quote Quote:
    I think in one of the missions following Obito's 'demise', Kakashi had to choose again between completing the mission (for the village) and saving Rin.

    It would appear that Kakashi chose 'completing the mission' this time, sacrificing Rin for the sake of the greater good.

    ...

    Seriously, think about the backstory before opening your mouth to complain.
    you haven't answered my question. please explicate the source of this 'backstory' that purportedly justified your final statement (emboldened for emphasis) in attacking the OP's observation

    I thought it was a very fair observation with real insight on how kishi actually creates his characters (specifically, copy+paste)

    someone should really flow chart it out

    ---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Minishin View Post
    blah blah blah
    btw, welcome OP.

    it's nice to have such fair analyses around

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    I could not guess all of the vilains =)))) help?

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Krina29 View Post
    I could not guess all of the vilains =)))) help?
    I think:

    1. Orochimaru
    2. Obito Uchiha
    3. Kyuubi
    4. Sasuke Uchiha
    5. Danzou Shimura
    6. Nagato Uzumaki
    7. Kabuto
    8. Madara Uchiha

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Krina29 View Post
    I could not guess all of the vilains =)))) help?
    1) Orochimaru
    2) Obito (Tobi)
    3) Kurama (Kyuubi)
    4) Sasuke
    5) Danzo
    6) Nagato (Pain)
    7) Kabuto
    8) Madara

    EDIT: ^ Haha, that post wasn't there when I clicked "reply."
    Last edited by Cyrs; September 06, 2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Thanx you guys they are just so ..alike )) I was so confused =))

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    I think:

    1. Orochimaru
    2. Obito Uchiha
    3. Kyuubi
    4. Sasuke Uchiha
    5. Danzou Shimura
    6. Nagato Uzumaki
    7. Kabuto
    8. Madara Uchiha
    oh kurama is number 3! trying to work out who that was but it was so obvious haha he called him a puppy for gods sake. god im slow.


    gaara could be added to that list too. but i dont really think danzo deserves to be on it.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    ahahah,that's right man! well,I still don't think that tobi is obito,nay,tobi isn't entirely obito . also,tobi was manipulating the others through pain and sufference,it'd be a shame if he were a victim too. only madara seem to be the baddass.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    I thought it was a very fair observation with real insight on how kishi actually creates his characters (specifically, copy+paste)
    I do believe your analysis is mistaken. Rather than copy and paste, Kishi develops a sense of narrative coherence with his villains. Each has been designed to reinforce the principle themes of Naruto, and fit comfortably into the world of the story. Naruto and Sasuke form the stories primary rivalries. Both faced adversity as children. Naruto overcame adversity, worked hard, built friendships, and grew into a fixture of the community. Sasuke never learned to overcome adversity, was overcome by his anger, fled the village, and is now shunned by the community. After established Naruto's rivalry with Sasuke, Kishi began establishing all subsequent major antagonists as part of similar rivalries. Rikudou Sennin's Younger Son and Older Son, Hashirama and Madara, Sarutobi and Danzou, Jiraiya and Orochimaru, Kakashi and Obito, Pain and Naruto. This establishes that the primary conflict, Naruto and Sasuke, is more than personal. Theirs is part of a greater conflict, reaching back to the beginning of time, shaping the ninja world. This also establishes narrative cohesion, maintaining a sense that Naruto is a unified story centered around a single conflict, the will of fire against the power of hate.

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    Re: "I was a good boy but life is hard !" : How to design vilains the Kishi Way

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    in any case, yea someone should make a flow chart. kishi's antagonists are too much copied off one another, he seems to have an obsessive hate for smart people
    well, no, that's just plainly wrong. Smart people are very well idealized in the Naruto manga. Prodigious growth is associated with the most well respected characters. It's because intelligence is so well respected that he makes the villains intelligent -- to make them competent.

    examples of intelligence clearly shown in a very admirable light: Shikamaru, Itachi, Minato, etc.

    also in general it's silly to say "lol he made the villain a certain way, he must hate that in real people." he wrote a fictional story conscious of the fact that it's fictional. the highest priority is for the story to be interesting, and it becomes interesting wtih competent villains. He always prioritizes making the villains competent, and filling them with admirable traits so that the reader can find them likable as well. It's very unlikely a characteristic would be this common in his manga (intelligence) if he thought it wasn't an admirable quality.
    Last edited by blade5468; September 08, 2012 at 06:31 AM.

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