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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Irie Kanata

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  • Niou Masaharu

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Thread: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Niou can only become somebody he has seen play. Regarding Shiraishi, its likely he saw Shiraishi play during an earlier round before we saw him in the Semifinals.
    Niou can become any Schooler he has seen play to a certain extent.
    This won't be an ass-kicking of Niou. Niou will put up resistance.

    Saying ''why can't he become Oni or Tokugawa?'' doesn't mean a thing.
    Nobody anywhere right now can prove Irie is weaker than Oni or Tokugawa.
    That Top 20 2nd Stringer list couldn't have been an accurate portrayal of abilities.

    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/50/10
    The list here has Nakagauchi in 8th, Yamato in 10th, Miyako in 12th, Takei in 19th and Yukimura in 20th.
    Just the fact the list has one MSer means it can't be much to go by.
    Also, we have no idea if the Top 20 even played one another.

    Nakagauchi > Yamato based on their displays in the Team Shuffle just seems far-fetched and I can't honestly see it.
    Secondly, if Irie never had a match with either Oni or Tokugawa, how can it be proven that one is stronger than the other?
    Especially if Irie has been messing around this whole time.

    Irie > Niou and we can't even be sure if becoming Tokugawa can save him.
    Agreed. We don't know what his true strength is, but I'm not sure Tokugawa and Oni would beat him, we can't prove he's weaker than them, but his true face might be even stronger than them. He could be even stronger than Tanegashima, remember that even if it wasn't in the manga, in the anime, Shuuji said "I'd hate to play against Irie". He could be stronger than him, and I think he is. But we can't say anything until we see him playing all out, but I still think he is above Shuuji, and maybe Oni and Tokugawa. Also, his power for sure might be lot stronger than the stat chart suggested, so we don't know what is his true level and where he stands right now.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Agreed. We don't know what his true strength is, but I'm not sure Tokugawa and Oni would beat him, we can't prove he's weaker than them, but his true face might be even stronger than them. He could be even stronger than Tanegashima, remember that even if it wasn't in the manga, in the anime, Shuuji said "I'd hate to play against Irie". He could be stronger than him, and I think he is. But we can't say anything until we see him playing all out, but I still think he is above Shuuji, and maybe Oni and Tokugawa. Also, his power for sure might be lot stronger than the stat chart suggested, so we don't know what is his true level and where he stands right now.
    Shuuji IS stronger than Oni based on the rank though. Shuuji is 2 while Oni is 5. I think Irie true strength is probably around number 3-5. That's simply wild guess, though.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Since Irie and Oni (and probably Kazuya) are all willfully gatekeepers of the lower courts, I would assume they are actually pretty equal in terms of skill. It is possible that none of them have the upper hand on each other.

  4. #19
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Mouri returned ZSS in his second try. Irie would do it first try probably if he goes all out.
    Based on? Ochi is higher ranked than Mouri and didn't manage to return ZSS at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Tezuka used Phantom against Sanada and his elbow was injured after 5 or 4 games (I don't remember exactly), so Niou could be injured after some games and be unable to play.
    Only because Sanada started using Rin. Not that it really matters though because we've seen Niou use it for longer than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Saiki because I think you don't know what Irie's going to do, I mean, even how he's playing, for me it's just unpredictable, and I feel he could break it somehow, just look at his mental, speed and technique. I'm sure he would break Saiki, if he goes all out and Niou can't reach balls, then Saiki won't work.
    This is just guesswork and not necessarily relevant. Chitose wasn't better than Tezuka during the nationals, let alone Tezuka and Inui combined, yet he still had the upper hand against the former until Tezuka unlocked Saiki himself and was supposed to be winning against the combination.

    Not saying that he'll never break it, but just writing it off seems incorrect as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Rai, the same. Niou's legs won't work after he uses it for some games, then he won't be able to continue the match. Is just that Irie would completely overwhelm Niou, as much as I like Niou, if Irie decided to go all out. Niou won't win this.
    Where does it say that he won't be able to use Rai for longer? Sanada used it for I believe... 36 (?) points before his legs gave out, and that was back during the nationals, so before the mountain camp (which surely upped Niou's stamina and makes him at least equal to Nationals!Sanada in that regard).

    You keep saying Irie will win easily if he decides to go all out, but I don't see any justification anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Thing is, its not a bad argument since we have no idea if it was the same Irie that Akiba walked over. Irie the Pierrot is an actor.
    Irie got serious only because his acting got dissed. Atobe never dissed Irie's acting.
    The scene was exactly the same. Irie used his smash against Atobe and scored, he did it against Akiba and it did nothing. I'd say that heavily implies that Irie played with the same strength then.
    Not sure what you want to say with the last line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Yeah Niou and Atobe are same level, and yeah I expect Atobe and Niou to ass-kick Akiba but so what lol?
    Irie VS Atobe, showed Irie just taking Atobe for a fool which I thought no character would be able to do.
    And that happened during the team shuffle and isn't representative of their current strength. Irie stopped acting for the last point/last few points btw.

    Also I'm willing to say that the Niou from the G10 matches would easily beat the Atobe from the team shuffle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Troll!Irie had beast stats in Speed and Mental I think. The Irie we saw when Akiba dissed his acting left Akiba on the floor and we don't even know if he was conscious haha. Don't know if Niou and Atobe could do that.
    I don't know either, but maybe? We had this before in some other thread, but just because we're going with Irie > Akiba and Niou > Akiba, it doesn't imply anything about whether or how badly Irie would beat Niou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I don't like to go entirely by stats, but stat wise Irie should win.
    I'm not even so sure about that. Niou has better power than a decent amount of the other high tier MSers, since he could break through Ochi/Mouri's defense while Atobe or Tezuka!Niou couldn't. He made a very impressive return of Kagero Zutsumi against Fuji, underlining an at least decent speed which probably increased since then and his technique shouldn't be too bad either.

    Stamina and mental are good as well as he demonstrated during the G10 match.

    Irie might be slightly ahead stat wise, but I don't think it's by all that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Also if Niou does not know the real Irie, what good is SKnK?
    It wouldn't be as useful at the beginning of the match, but if Niou can push Irie with other things, he'll get a good idea of Irie's real strength as the match goes on and it'll be useable during the second half.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Irie can hit weak shots to counter HJnK since his technique that he showed against Atobe was off the charts.
    Yeah I can agree with this, hence why I didn't bring it up (or at least I don't think I did >_>;; ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    If Mouri managed to pull off returning ZSS, and Mouri is someone who relies on technique just like Irie, surely Irie should pull off something of the sort.
    Mouri also saw through AK and found a way to return it, something we haven't seen from Irie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Becoming Sanada would be useful I guess, I don't know if Irie can return Rai. But at the same time Niou I doubt is as strong as Sanada, and may not be able to handle the toll for a whole 6 games.
    Again, I don't think Niou will have any stamina problems over the duration of one set as long as he makes the shots count.




    Niou also isn't limited to Tezuka and Sanada here. As I said before, Myougi might give Irie trouble at least when Niou makes it to the net and I wouldn't put it past him to use stuff like Shukuchihou either (which can be sealed, but should work if he uses it sparingly).

    Lastly, despite Irie's 2 in stamina most definitely not being the real thing, I doubt he suddenly transformed into a stamina monster, so overall I don't see him at an advantage in long matches.

  5. #20
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Post Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    The scene was exactly the same. Irie used his smash against Atobe and scored, he did it against Akiba and it did nothing. I'd say that heavily implies that Irie played with the same strength then.
    Not sure what you want to say with the last line.
    Don't see how you think this proves it was the same Irie. Irie plays at all kinds of different levels.
    You can see what I said with the last line Kaoz. The furious expression on Irie's face is not what we saw against Atobe.
    Different Irie's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Lastly, despite Irie's 2 in stamina most definitely not being the real thing, I doubt he suddenly transformed into a stamina monster, so overall I don't see him at an advantage in long matches.
    He practically out did Atobe who is said to be good at long matches. He pretended his shoulder couldn't move when it could move fine.
    If Atobe is a stamina monster which he might well be, then Irie has to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    And that happened during the team shuffle and isn't representative of their current strength. Irie stopped acting for the last point/last few points btw.

    Also I'm willing to say that the Niou from the G10 matches would easily beat the Atobe from the team shuffle.
    Prove that he stopped acting.
    Even though Tanegashima proved his left arm was fine.
    Yeah I also think Current!Niou > TeamShuffle!Atobe. I think right now Niou > Atobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I'm not even so sure about that. Niou has better power than a decent amount of the other high tier MSers, since he could break through Ochi/Mouri's defense while Atobe or Tezuka!Niou couldn't. He made a very impressive return of Kagero Zutsumi against Fuji, underlining an at least decent speed which probably increased since then and his technique shouldn't be too bad either.
    You can't prove that. Niou's smash can be returned by Fuji with Higuma Otoshi.
    don't know why you think his Speed should have increased either. Not everybody's speed increased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    It wouldn't be as useful at the beginning of the match, but if Niou can push Irie with other things, he'll get a good idea of Irie's real strength as the match goes on and it'll be useable during the second half.
    What makes you think he will get a good idea of Irie's real strength? He may not. Irie could hand him a false impression of himself for many games like he did with Atobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Mouri also saw through AK and found a way to return it, something we haven't seen from Irie.
    Chances are Irie didnt want to render his arm useless.
    It's a stupid idea in a Singles match. Mouri's method only deserves praise in Doubles. I admire his recklessness.
    Even though it was totally in vain.

  6. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    After some thinking, I reached this conclusion:

    A guy that has almost unlimited copy skills and a guy that we haven't seen playing 100 %. No matter how much we discuss, there's no clear winner here.

    So I'm gonna vote for Irie, just because we haven't seen his full potential, and Niou's limited to the guy he decides to copy.

  7. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    And what about Yips? Wouldn't that work with Irie?

    I just think Niou can win some games and make Irie play all out. Personally, Niou right now is stronger than the Atobe who faced Irie and probably stronger than Atobe right now. But the shame is even if he improved his stamina, mental and physical abilities (probably) that doesn't prevent him from losing to Irie.

    What could he do against very strong and fast shots from a serious Irie, phantom yes, but maybe that would hurt his arm, but it should last enough maybe to make him win, unless Irie finds how to break the technique.

  8. #23
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    And what about Yips? Wouldn't that work with Irie?
    Depends which Yips. Yips that can be overcome with an Aura as it makes the opponent feel like it will lose and has no chance of winning?
    Or new Yips that simply cannot be broken since it makes the opponent think he is winning and has no chance of losing.

    I don't think Niou would have seen new Yips so I doubt that would work.

  9. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Depends which Yips. Yips that can be overcome with an Aura as it makes the opponent feel like it will lose and has no chance of winning?
    Or new Yips that simply cannot be broken since it makes the opponent think he is winning and has no chance of losing.

    I don't think Niou would have seen new Yips so I doubt that would work.
    Yes, definitely, new improved yips from Yukimura would leave Irie helpless, in despair. There's no way to win against those yips unless somebody can take points from Yuki or has an aura like BA or Tenimuhou. Serious Irie won't be yipped, but if he goes troll mode against Yuki, and Yuki yips him and makes him go into a dream, then he won't win. I still believe and won't change my mind, Yukimura > Irie (serious irie) all the way.

    But I'm wondering how Niou would copy Yips as is impossible I think, it's like a natural ability (like Jirou's magic volley).

  10. #25
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member TheShiraishi's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Just reading these 2 pages proves that neither one has a clear advantage. I'm gonna vote Niou just because he's cooler IMO xD

  11. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    i give this win to niou. this decision increases in niou's favor if this tourny occurs after the manga match with niou/atobe doubles match.

    niou definintely showed that his illusion is advanced and has evolved. Nious has seen the best Pot 1 jrs play, even at the u-7 camp.

    can irie defeat echizen / tezuka/ fuji/ sanada/ yukimura/ atobe with atobe kingdom? and can irie defeat himself?
    as of now, niou has seen irie play. ( he knows about being toyed on and that irie has great skill)

    according to irie's stats he lacks strength. if niou can harshness the strength of gin or kabaji, irie may not stand a chance.
    but having access to the top tier jr high schoolers. if Irie can defeat niou who can use the best abilities and skills of the top Jr high schoolers. which my opinion is no.. then he'lll win niou.

    i havent seen irie's abilities increase via special techniques since playing with atobe, but he was toying with him, but his general skills definitely increased since he beat a 1st stringer recently.
    Last edited by ashore; September 18, 2012 at 06:26 PM.

  12. #27
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Don't see how you think this proves it was the same Irie. Irie plays at all kinds of different levels.
    It's not a definite proof by any stretch of the imagination, but I would say it heavily indicates it. So far, Konomi's been trying to compress as much information into just a few pages as he could and I think when looking at it like that, especially since it was the only thing we've really seen in that match, you can get Akiba > Shuffle!Irie from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    You can see what I said with the last line Kaoz. The furious expression on Irie's face is not what we saw against Atobe.
    Different Irie's.
    Sure, after then it's a stronger Irie than the team shuffle one. I never contested that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    He practically out did Atobe who is said to be good at long matches. He pretended his shoulder couldn't move when it could move fine.
    If Atobe is a stamina monster which he might well be, then Irie has to be.
    Atobe's ankle was injured though, so that comparison doesn't hold water. On the contrary, when you look at the bottom panel, they are both on the ground, even though Atobe had to move that much more than Irie. This really underlines that Irie's stamina isn't great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Prove that he stopped acting.
    1
    2
    3

    I'd say those three pages, and especially what Atobe says in the last one, show that he didn't act anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    You can't prove that. Niou's smash can be returned by Fuji with Higuma Otoshi.
    don't know why you think his Speed should have increased either. Not everybody's speed increased.
    The power part is pretty obvious from the G10 match imo. It's hard to say anything about Niou's power in the Fuji match because he downgrades his stats to fit the person he copies. It might be that he could have done it, but Tezuka/Shiraishi weren't able to.

    Speed should have increased for everyone, at least a bit. It might not have increased by a whole lot though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    What makes you think he will get a good idea of Irie's real strength? He may not. Irie could hand him a false impression of himself for many games like he did with Atobe.
    He could only do that with Atobe because he was that much stronger than him. As I said, I don't think that the difference between Irie and Niou is as high as you make it out to be, hence he wouldn't be able to keep his act up and still score enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Chances are Irie didnt want to render his arm useless
    Fair point. I guess what I was getting at is that we saw Mouri combat it while Irie just really didn't show anything of the sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    And what about Yips? Wouldn't that work with Irie?
    It's questionable whether it would work, but a moot point in this match since Niou shouldn't be able to copy it. As you correctly say later on, Yips is Yukimura's personal ability, something Niou can't copy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    as of now, niou has seen irie play. ( he knows about being toyed on and that irie has great skill)
    He hasn't actually. The losers didn't witness the 3rd vs 5th court matches and they played at the same time during the revolution matches. Although someone else might have told him about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    according to irie's stats he lacks strength. if niou can harshness the strength of gin or kabaji, irie may not stand a chance.
    I doubt that Irie is helpless against power players, although all I can base it on are Oni's PP comments.

  13. #28
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Atobe's ankle was injured though, so that comparison doesn't hold water. On the contrary, when you look at the bottom panel, they are both on the ground, even though Atobe had to move that much more than Irie. This really underlines that Irie's stamina isn't great.
    Not necessarily.
    Here he is standing, when he could have continued with the match. I think Irie has perhaps solid stamina.

  14. #29
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    according to irie's stats he lacks strength. if niou can harshness the strength of gin or kabaji, irie may not stand a chance.
    Niou can copy techs, not stats. He´ll never become Taka or Gin. He´ll never become Kenya or Kamio.

  15. #30
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    Re: [Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Singles 1] Irie vs Niou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Not necessarily.
    Here he is standing, when he could have continued with the match. I think Irie has perhaps solid stamina.
    Well yeah. I chose that page/panel as it depicted both Atobe and Irie as equally exhausted, and in the one you linked Atobe bumped into a wall and fainted. If not for that, he might have been able to continue just like Irie would have been able to.

    I think the 2 Irie had on the stat sheet is very much justified for that point in time. It's probably a bit higher now, but my main point was that it shouldn't be on Atobe's or apparently Niou's level (really if Irie turns out to be one of the G10, I wouldn't be surprised if his stamina was the lowest of the bunch).

    ---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

    Irie Kanata: 9 votes
    Niou Masaharu: 2 votes

    Winner: Irie Kanata

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