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View Poll Results: Which ability does Monet have?

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • New Species

    1 2.22%
  • Zoan

    5 11.11%
  • Mythic Zoan

    10 22.22%
  • Logia

    1 2.22%
  • Parmecia

    12 26.67%
  • Law Enhanced (Grafting)

    1 2.22%
  • DF + Law Enhanced

    15 33.33%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: What type of ability does Monet have?

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoronoa Roro View Post
    ok than... but explain to me if snow flakes are small ice crystals how is that different element from ice?
    well fire is basically just any glowing gas (specifically from heat), don't see any distinction between ace and caeser

    white smoke is also mainly incomplete combustion of gases, basically NOx, SOx and COx specifically, there's no distinction between smoker and caesar as well

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoronoa Roro View Post
    ok than... but explain to me if snow flakes are small ice crystals how is that different element from ice?
    Different properties: In masses ice is solid like glass, and when it breaches the shards are pretty sharp. Snow on the other hand is still formable and softer. It definitely feels different to take a hit from a snow ball than one from an ice ball.

  3. #33
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoronoa Roro View Post
    ok than... but explain to me if snow flakes are small ice crystals how is that different element from ice?
    the difference between ice and snow;

    the reason why ppl actually see these 2 as the same thing is because the snowflakes are actually ice. but snow itself is not. it contains the solidified particulates that atmosphere contains.that is why snow is granural material whereas ice is just solid water. snow can only occur where there is an upward motion of air and low-air pressure. whereas ice is just 1 of the known 15 solid phases of water.

    there is a lot to explain about the differences than what is written here but i am sure you got the jist of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    well fire is basically just any glowing gas (specifically from heat), don't see any distinction between ace and caeser

    white smoke is also mainly incomplete combustion of gases, basically NOx, SOx and COx specifically, there's no distinction between smoker and caesar as well
    fire is not the burning of any old gas it is the process of rapid oxidation(the name oxidation comes from the fact that the most common catalyst for combustion is oxygen but it is not the only 1. hydrogen can burn with chloride for example. the other known oxydizer is flourine.) of materials in the exothermic chemical process known as combustion. heat and light is the by products of this. this process can be achieved with any state of the material (coal, wood, kerosene, also acids mixed with water, and gasses.)

    ceasar and ace r different in 1 key factor that ace can't fight without an oxydizer and where as ceasar can change the gas and can cause an explosion.

    actually smoke and gas are 2 different things,

    Smoke is; a collection of airborne solid and liquid particulates and gases emitted when a material undergoes combustion or pyrolysis, together with the quantity of air that is entrained or otherwise mixed into the mass.Gas on the other hand; is the state of a matter depending on their boiling point.also smoke is visible to the naked eye where as gasses r not.
    Last edited by cearon; September 26, 2012 at 08:59 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by cearon View Post
    the difference between ice and snow;

    the reason why ppl actually see these 2 as the same thing is because the snowflakes are actually ice. but snow itself is not. it contains the solidified form of every single gas that atmosphere contains.that is why snow is granural material whereas ice is just solid water. snow can only occur where there is an upward motion of air and low-air pressure. whereas ice is just 1 of the known 15 solid phases of water.

    there is a lot to explain about the differences than what is written here but i am sure you got the jist of it.




    fire is not the burning of any old gas it is the process of rapid oxidation(the name oxidation comes from the fact that the most common catalyst for combustion is oxygen but it is not the only 1. hydrogen can burn with chloride for example. the other known oxydizer is flourine.) of materials in the exothermic chemical process known as combustion. heat and light is the by products of this. this process can be achieved with any state of the material (coal, wood, kerosene, also acids mixed with water, and gasses.)

    ceasar and ace r different in 1 key factor that ace can't fight without an oxydizer and where as ceasar can change the gas and can cause an explosion.

    actually smoke and gas are 2 different things,

    Smoke is; a collection of airborne solid and liquid particulates and gases emitted when a material undergoes combustion or pyrolysis, together with the quantity of air that is entrained or otherwise mixed into the mass.Gas on the other hand; is the state of a matter depending on their boiling point.also smoke is visible to the naked eye where as gasses r not.
    if you wanna get technical, the flame (from ace's flame flame fruit) is just any glowing gas from heat

    it's just commonly observed with combustion in our environment, where the still-oxidising particles glow while they release heat energy and rise due to convection, and thus linked in common usage to the combustion process known as fire. it does not have to be created by combustion
    flames by themselves can be formed by any gas heated to above a certain temperature by any means to induce ionisation and causing it to glow

    to make it simple, hydrogen fusion has zero oxidation, but still has flames aplenty. look at the sun which has zero oxidation happening and tell me if it's dark or bright

    ace's powers are linked to flames, not fire in the combustion-process sense.


    also, like you said, smoke is a combination of airbourne colloids and gases. its common main constituents are those gases i pointed out and any leftover fuel in liquid particulate form, and of course soot/ash. smoker hasn't been leaving any precipitate behind, so i assume his fruit powers don't consist of soot/ash at all.

    smoke can be purely gaseous, and all you have to do is mix in enough atmospheric gas and it becomes totally clear after the unstable carbon and nitrogen and sulphur compounds have reacted to form stable ones. these, as far as i've seen, are mostly pure white, which is what smoker's smoke is portrayed as. if there were any solid/liquid particulate, many aeration devices in industrial chimneys wouldn't work and would clog up so badly it would be impracticable. also many chemical engineers would be fired and eating soup out of a can under a bridge near your house. we don't want that many people to lose their jobs do we?


    good try with your wiki skills though

    ---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

    oh, and snow IS referring to a collection of snowflakes

    it might commonly contain contaminants as it falls, but the word 'snow' refers purely to the ice crystals

    it's like saying 'water' is not 'water', 'it contains copper compounds and additives such as fluoride and chlorine' as it is commonly found from a tap.

    no one cares, when people say 'water' people essentially are referring to its perfect scenario of just pure H2O, or substantially H2O without regard for any contaminants, which is substantially what any 'water' in common usage is

    ---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

    also i must point out that (off the top of my head), main atmospheric components:

    oxygen liquifies at -183deg celcius and solidifies at -219deg celcius
    nitrogen liquifies at -196deg celcius and solidifies at -210deg celcius
    carbon dioxide liquifies at -57deg celcius and solidifies at - 78deg celcius

    even carbon dioxide requires -78degC to form dry ice.

    where on earth do you live to have snow be significantly made up of any other solid atmospheric gas than snowflakes? do you live on the poles? even around the poles you're mostly at -30 to -40deg celcius in the daytime, do you go out at night to play with the dry-ice-tainted snow on the few coldest weeks of the year?
    Last edited by hyper_megaman; September 26, 2012 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #35
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    if you wanna get technical, the flame (from ace's flame flame fruit) is just any glowing gas from heat

    it's just commonly observed with combustion in our environment, where the still-oxidising particles glow while they release heat energy and rise due to convection, and thus linked in common usage to the combustion process known as fire. it does not have to be created by combustion
    flames by themselves can be formed by any gas heated to above a certain temperature by any means to induce ionisation and causing it to glow
    yeah lets get technical. first af all flame-flame is just the translation they probably found more appropirate than fire-fire(mera-mera is apperently the sound of fire burning) moreover ace himself confirms he is a "fire". though that may not be the only reason since the kanji for fire "火" (hi) can also be translated as flame. though the correct kanji for flame is "炎"(honou).so i can accept the misconception about that 1.

    ing. translation



    japanese 1

    Spoiler show


    but i cant understand the misconception of Logia DFs; is characterized by giving its user the ability to turn into a natural element or force of nature. where in earth have "flame" become an natural element or force of nature?

    But let me make 1 thing clear. Flame is the visible part of the gaseous fire.in other way of explanation; flame is a burning gas.and no ace and ceasar do have massive differences.


    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    to make it simple, hydrogen fusion has zero oxidation, but still has flames aplenty. look at the sun which has zero oxidation happening and tell me if it's dark or bright

    ace's powers are linked to flames, not fire in the combustion-process sense.
    this make is easy? u want to have discussion about big bang nucleosynthesis and nuclear fusion? u want to prove your point by pointing out a plasma mass and fire? 2 concepts cannot even be discussed in the same sentence. 1 deals exclusively with laws of thermodynamics (specially 1st law.) the other 1 on the other hand just flies on the face of them.

    about your inducing ionization point, it happens even in the low temperature of a candle flame it just doesnt burn hot enough to cause a complete1. inducing glow from any odd gas isnt all that hard to achieve without raising the temperatures to a certain point. (look plasma globe)


    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    also, like you said, smoke is a combination of airbourne colloids and gases. its common main constituents are those gases i pointed out and any leftover fuel in liquid particulate form, and of course soot/ash. smoker hasn't been leaving any precipitate behind, so i assume his fruit powers don't consist of soot/ash at all.

    smoke can be purely gaseous, and all you have to do is mix in enough atmospheric gas and it becomes totally clear after the unstable carbon and nitrogen and sulphur compounds have reacted to form stable ones. these, as far as i've seen, are mostly pure white, which is what smoker's smoke is portrayed as. if there were any solid/liquid particulate, many aeration devices in industrial chimneys wouldn't work and would clog up so badly it would be impracticable. also many chemical engineers would be fired and eating soup out of a can under a bridge near your house. we don't want that many people to lose their jobs do we?


    good try with your wiki skills though
    i believe that was called flue-gas desulfurization.which when applied is very enviroment friendly but doesnt produce smoker like smoke. it basically is gas at that stage. can u actually tell me smoke without colloids is smoke?without the necessary treatments (actual flue-gas ) is what is smoker like white and cloud like smoke. another way to achieve it is to burning of hydrogen-rich fuel produces water; this results in smoke containing droplets of water vapor. (nitrogen oxides, particulates... absence)

    and dont diss wiki. it is the only place where i can find explanations where every1 can understand rather than going in detail to advanced and more often unwanted subjects. this is a manga/anime realted forum.

    1 more u said smoker and ceasar have no distinctions. so having unknown number of gasses r the same of having only smoke?

    ---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper_megaman View Post
    oh, and snow IS referring to a collection of snowflakes

    it might commonly contain contaminants as it falls, but the word 'snow' refers purely to the ice crystals

    it's like saying 'water' is not 'water', 'it contains copper compounds and additives such as fluoride and chlorine' as it is commonly found from a tap.

    no one cares, when people say 'water' people essentially are referring to its perfect scenario of just pure H2O, or substantially H2O without regard for any contaminants, which is substantially what any 'water' in common usage is

    ---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

    also i must point out that (off the top of my head), main atmospheric components:

    oxygen liquifies at -183deg celcius and solidifies at -219deg celcius
    nitrogen liquifies at -196deg celcius and solidifies at -210deg celcius
    carbon dioxide liquifies at -57deg celcius and solidifies at - 78deg celcius

    even carbon dioxide requires -78degC to form dry ice.

    where on earth do you live to have snow be significantly made up of any other solid atmospheric gas than snowflakes? do you live on the poles? even around the poles you're mostly at -30 to -40deg celcius in the daytime, do you go out at night to play with the dry-ice-tainted snow on the few coldest weeks of the year?
    this 1 suprised me and i was thinking what the hell is he oging on about atmospheric gasses when i realized it was my mistake that leds this. i must thank you for this 1. i will edit the post where i wrote idioticly solidified gasses when particulates was what was needed. i should have double checked.
    Last edited by cearon; September 27, 2012 at 06:48 AM.

  6. #36
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Well, I would think our must important clue so far is that kamakura does kinda mean snow hut according to the translations. We don't have much to go on in that regard.

  7. #37
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    i see guys tbat you are all smart but whats the point? you are all wrong, this have nothing to do with science.. do you think that 12 year olds know what are coloids? basicly this is mythology combined with very simple science, the way you all go into detail oda should have masters degree in physics, chemistry and what not
    Sorry for my Engrish...

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  9. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Yeah... I probably learned more about the chemical properties of combustion reading the posts above than I did in my college thermodynamics class. They were very informative .

    At least when it comes to snow and ice, when you take two equal masses of each, even though their chemical properties are the same (crystallized water), they have different physical properties like density, stiffness, and brittleness/hardness. If you only compare one snowflake with a tiny ice crystal, their physical properties wouldn't be different at all which is what you're (Zoronoa Roro) comparing. But when you take a large lump of snow and compare with a large lump of ice their physical properties are not the same. Basically, if you get snowed in vs. when you got ice covering your pavements outside, you don't treat them the same way even though at the micro level they're both ice crystals; instead you take each case at a macro level "snow" as a massive layer that needs to be shoveled, or sheets of ice that need to be broken and removed.

    Also, when it comes to elements, there's different definitions for that word too. In chemistry, an element would be things like Oxygen vs. Iron. In alchemy and in some philosophies, elements are like air vs water (even wood sometimes). I think when Oda uses the word "element" he's using it more as the 2nd definition, but not completely because he has used things like smoke and swamp as elements which I haven't seen anywhere else.

  10. #39
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoronoa Roro View Post
    i see guys tbat you are all smart but whats the point? you are all wrong, this have nothing to do with science.. do you think that 12 year olds know what are coloids? basicly this is mythology combined with very simple science, the way you all go into detail oda should have masters degree in physics, chemistry and what not
    when i read your post i just couldnt stop laughing. i guess just caught up in the moment lost track of things sry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    Yeah... I probably learned more about the chemical properties of combustion reading the posts above than I did in my college thermodynamics class. They were very informative .

    At least when it comes to snow and ice, when you take two equal masses of each, even though their chemical properties are the same (crystallized water), they have different physical properties like density, stiffness, and brittleness/hardness. If you only compare one snowflake with a tiny ice crystal, their physical properties wouldn't be different at all which is what you're (Zoronoa Roro) comparing. But when you take a large lump of snow and compare with a large lump of ice their physical properties are not the same. Basically, if you get snowed in vs. when you got ice covering your pavements outside, you don't treat them the same way even though at the micro level they're both ice crystals; instead you take each case at a macro level "snow" as a massive layer that needs to be shoveled, or sheets of ice that need to be broken and removed.

    Also, when it comes to elements, there's different definitions for that word too. In chemistry, an element would be things like Oxygen vs. Iron. In alchemy and in some philosophies, elements are like air vs water (even wood sometimes). I think when Oda uses the word "element" he's using it more as the 2nd definition, but not completely because he has used things like smoke and swamp as elements which I haven't seen anywhere else.
    u r right about the elemental definition of the alchemy and 4 main elements.chemistry has no bearing on OP logia DFs. i think he created logias based on the occurences of things natural on world. like magma, swamp,smoke, gas... in a way we can group them with the known 4 elements and the main 2 elemenst of light and dark.for example a magma can be said to have both earth and fire, also swamp(the 1 caribou uses isnt actually swamp but more like bog or muskeg)earth and water... smoke wind,fire. etc etc. ( for some reason i feel like i am writing on naruto post )

  11. #40
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    AAA forget it, fire is common. It's not really an element (in some philosophies it is), but who cares, this is manga.

    Ace's fire fruit can be connected to flames as excitation - deexcitation & photon emission process, but also to combustion. I guess we won't find out... you can ask Oda if you want. But again: this is manga, just enjoy it for what it is and don't bother with science, which describes OUR world.

    Overlapping of abilities is not a problem, as long as it's not exaggerated. Actually, it's interesting to have fights where attacks can be countered because of it, but also disappointing because some abilities will hardly not be inferior to other (Ace vs. Akainu).
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  12. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    All this talk about fire, gas, combustion and real physics made me almost forget about Monet... uh well, no not really.

    So no one found a myth bird - aside from other franchises that are irrelevant to OP - so far that is like an "snow phoenix"? How about we then delay talks about her until Oda decides to give us more information about her?

    Quote Originally Posted by cearon View Post
    also swamp(the 1 caribou uses isnt actually swamp but more like bog or muskeg)earth and water... smoke wind,fire. etc etc.
    Sorry to go off-topic again, but Oda named the fruit Swamp Swamp Fruit. He uses the japanese word for it. There's no doubt about him being swamp. You guys seriously need to get away from the "Logia == element" rule because apparently it simply only works for Ace and Enel as neither Light nor Darkness are elements.

  13. #42
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Sorry to go off-topic again, but Oda named the fruit Swamp Swamp Fruit. He uses the japanese word for it. There's no doubt about him being swamp. You guys seriously need to get away from the "Logia == element" rule because apparently it simply only works for Ace and Enel as neither Light nor Darkness are elements.
    apperently numa means everything i wrote above. so it is more like lack of japanese words. depends on where the element theory is based light and dark is elements. specially seven chakras considers them elements. (and no this 1 has nothing to do with naruto)

  14. #43
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ledoke's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    So no one found a myth bird - aside from other franchises that are irrelevant to OP - so far that is like an "snow phoenix"? How about we then delay talks about her until Oda decides to give us more information about her?
    I've googled around and no name for a "Phoenixy" snowbird came out but it looks like there's a Canadian superhero based on Inuit mythology, I can't find any more info on what she's based on, but her powers kinda fit Monet.
    With Enel Oda used beings from several mythologies as names for his attacks so it is possible that he has a few books about mythology and could read something about some being from Inuit mythology that he liked and decided to use in OP, I don't think it's very probable but a possibility none the less.

    And there's also Hansel and Gretel, they were lead to the Witch's candy hut by a bird and mythological witches can usually posses or morph into birds so if Oda was inspired by that while creating Monet she could be a mzoan Witch with the ability to change into a bird and make candy structures.
    Again, not very probable but you can find a few parallels between that tale and the current arc in OP so it's not impossible.
    Last edited by Ledoke; September 29, 2012 at 10:30 AM.

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  16. #44
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    I found this theory in some forums: Monet is a Yuki Onna (snow woman in japanese folklore). Here the wiki for Yuki Onna.

    Some features of this character of japanese literature match some elements of Monet and of Punk Hazard´s arc (quotes from wiki):

    First
    Quote Quote:
    Yuki-onna appears on snowy nights as a tall, beautiful woman with long black hair and blue lips. Her inhumanly pale or even transparent skin makes her blend into the snowy landscape (as famously described in Lafcadio Hearn's Kwaidan: Stories and Studies of Strange Things). She sometimes wears a white kimono,[3] but other legends describe her as nude, with only her face and hair standing out against the snow.[4] Despite her inhuman beauty, her eyes can strike terror into mortals. She floats across the snow, leaving no footprints (in fact, some tales say she has no feet, a feature of many Japanese ghosts), and she can transform into a cloud of mist or snow if threatened. My emphasis
    This one matchs the possibility to follow Law with out being noticed.

    Second
    Quote Quote:
    In many stories, Yuki-onna appears to travelers trapped in snowstorms, and uses her icy breath to leave them as frost-coated corpses. Other legends say she leads them astray so they simply die of exposure. Other times, she manifests holding a child. When a well-intentioned soul takes the "child" from her, they are frozen in place.[3] Parents searching for lost children are particularly susceptible to this tactic. Other legends make Yuki-onna much more aggressive. In these stories, she often invades homes, blowing in the door with a gust of wind to kill residents in their sleep (some legends require her to be invited inside first). My emphasis
    So there are legends with Yuki Onnas and parents searching for their children. Does it sound familiar?

    Also, there are Yuki Onnas in some mangas: Bleach, Ranma ½ and Nurarihyon no Mago, Dororon Enma-Kun and others.

    Of course, snow DF is different than ice DF (Aokiji). If Monet is a Yuki Onna she would be able to manage snow, for instance hardening it like in Kamakura technique, or turning herself into a soft snowfall. And wings and talons should be Law’s work.

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  18. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: What type of ability does Monet have?

    What ukimix said was what I originally had in mind when I said this in my first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    If its all from a devil fruit, I suppose it could also be something like a snowman fruit (a paramacia that can change into different forms made out of snow).
    Of course I didn't know all that background information But I did remember Princess Snow's Yuki-chan from Marchen Awakens Romance (MAR) and thought it was that kind of ability.

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