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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
white smoke is also mainly incomplete combustion of gases, basically NOx, SOx and COx specifically, there's no distinction between smoker and caesar as well
the reason why ppl actually see these 2 as the same thing is because the snowflakes are actually ice. but snow itself is not. it contains the solidified particulates that atmosphere contains.that is why snow is granural material whereas ice is just solid water. snow can only occur where there is an upward motion of air and low-air pressure. whereas ice is just 1 of the known 15 solid phases of water.
there is a lot to explain about the differences than what is written here but i am sure you got the jist of it.
ceasar and ace r different in 1 key factor that ace can't fight without an oxydizer and where as ceasar can change the gas and can cause an explosion.
actually smoke and gas are 2 different things,
Smoke is; a collection of airborne solid and liquid particulates and gases emitted when a material undergoes combustion or pyrolysis, together with the quantity of air that is entrained or otherwise mixed into the mass.Gas on the other hand; is the state of a matter depending on their boiling point.also smoke is visible to the naked eye where as gasses r not.
Last edited by cearon; September 26, 2012 at 08:59 PM.
it's just commonly observed with combustion in our environment, where the still-oxidising particles glow while they release heat energy and rise due to convection, and thus linked in common usage to the combustion process known as fire. it does not have to be created by combustion
flames by themselves can be formed by any gas heated to above a certain temperature by any means to induce ionisation and causing it to glow
to make it simple, hydrogen fusion has zero oxidation, but still has flames aplenty. look at the sun which has zero oxidation happening and tell me if it's dark or bright
ace's powers are linked to flames, not fire in the combustion-process sense.
also, like you said, smoke is a combination of airbourne colloids and gases. its common main constituents are those gases i pointed out and any leftover fuel in liquid particulate form, and of course soot/ash. smoker hasn't been leaving any precipitate behind, so i assume his fruit powers don't consist of soot/ash at all.
smoke can be purely gaseous, and all you have to do is mix in enough atmospheric gas and it becomes totally clear after the unstable carbon and nitrogen and sulphur compounds have reacted to form stable ones. these, as far as i've seen, are mostly pure white, which is what smoker's smoke is portrayed as. if there were any solid/liquid particulate, many aeration devices in industrial chimneys wouldn't work and would clog up so badly it would be impracticable. also many chemical engineers would be fired and eating soup out of a can under a bridge near your house. we don't want that many people to lose their jobs do we?
good try with your wiki skills though
---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------
oh, and snow IS referring to a collection of snowflakes
it might commonly contain contaminants as it falls, but the word 'snow' refers purely to the ice crystals
it's like saying 'water' is not 'water', 'it contains copper compounds and additives such as fluoride and chlorine' as it is commonly found from a tap.
no one cares, when people say 'water' people essentially are referring to its perfect scenario of just pure H2O, or substantially H2O without regard for any contaminants, which is substantially what any 'water' in common usage is
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------
also i must point out that (off the top of my head), main atmospheric components:
oxygen liquifies at -183deg celcius and solidifies at -219deg celcius
nitrogen liquifies at -196deg celcius and solidifies at -210deg celcius
carbon dioxide liquifies at -57deg celcius and solidifies at - 78deg celcius
even carbon dioxide requires -78degC to form dry ice.
where on earth do you live to have snow be significantly made up of any other solid atmospheric gas than snowflakes? do you live on the poles? even around the poles you're mostly at -30 to -40deg celcius in the daytime, do you go out at night to play with the dry-ice-tainted snow on the few coldest weeks of the year?
Last edited by hyper_megaman; September 26, 2012 at 11:42 AM.
but i cant understand the misconception of Logia DFs; is characterized by giving its user the ability to turn into a natural element or force of nature. where in earth have "flame" become an natural element or force of nature?
But let me make 1 thing clear. Flame is the visible part of the gaseous fire.in other way of explanation; flame is a burning gas.and no ace and ceasar do have massive differences.
about your inducing ionization point, it happens even in the low temperature of a candle flame it just doesnt burn hot enough to cause a complete1. inducing glow from any odd gas isnt all that hard to achieve without raising the temperatures to a certain point. (look plasma globe)
and dont diss wiki. it is the only place where i can find explanations where every1 can understand rather than going in detail to advanced and more often unwanted subjects. this is a manga/anime realted forum.
1 more u said smoker and ceasar have no distinctions. so having unknown number of gasses r the same of having only smoke?
---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------
Last edited by cearon; September 27, 2012 at 06:48 AM.
Well, I would think our must important clue so far is that kamakura does kinda mean snow hut according to the translations. We don't have much to go on in that regard.
i see guys tbat you are all smart but whats the point? you are all wrong, this have nothing to do with science.. do you think that 12 year olds know what are coloids? basicly this is mythology combined with very simple science, the way you all go into detail oda should have masters degree in physics, chemistry and what not
Yeah... I probably learned more about the chemical properties of combustion reading the posts above than I did in my college thermodynamics class. They were very informative .
At least when it comes to snow and ice, when you take two equal masses of each, even though their chemical properties are the same (crystallized water), they have different physical properties like density, stiffness, and brittleness/hardness. If you only compare one snowflake with a tiny ice crystal, their physical properties wouldn't be different at all which is what you're (Zoronoa Roro) comparing. But when you take a large lump of snow and compare with a large lump of ice their physical properties are not the same. Basically, if you get snowed in vs. when you got ice covering your pavements outside, you don't treat them the same way even though at the micro level they're both ice crystals; instead you take each case at a macro level "snow" as a massive layer that needs to be shoveled, or sheets of ice that need to be broken and removed.
Also, when it comes to elements, there's different definitions for that word too. In chemistry, an element would be things like Oxygen vs. Iron. In alchemy and in some philosophies, elements are like air vs water (even wood sometimes). I think when Oda uses the word "element" he's using it more as the 2nd definition, but not completely because he has used things like smoke and swamp as elements which I haven't seen anywhere else.
AAA forget it, fire is common. It's not really an element (in some philosophies it is), but who cares, this is manga.
Ace's fire fruit can be connected to flames as excitation - deexcitation & photon emission process, but also to combustion. I guess we won't find out... you can ask Oda if you want. But again: this is manga, just enjoy it for what it is and don't bother with science, which describes OUR world.
Overlapping of abilities is not a problem, as long as it's not exaggerated. Actually, it's interesting to have fights where attacks can be countered because of it, but also disappointing because some abilities will hardly not be inferior to other (Ace vs. Akainu).
All this talk about fire, gas, combustion and real physics made me almost forget about Monet... uh well, no not really.
So no one found a myth bird - aside from other franchises that are irrelevant to OP - so far that is like an "snow phoenix"? How about we then delay talks about her until Oda decides to give us more information about her?
Canadian superhero based on Inuit mythology, I can't find any more info on what she's based on, but her powers kinda fit Monet.
With Enel Oda used beings from several mythologies as names for his attacks so it is possible that he has a few books about mythology and could read something about some being from Inuit mythology that he liked and decided to use in OP, I don't think it's very probable but a possibility none the less.
And there's also Hansel and Gretel, they were lead to the Witch's candy hut by a bird and mythological witches can usually posses or morph into birds so if Oda was inspired by that while creating Monet she could be a mzoan Witch with the ability to change into a bird and make candy structures.
Again, not very probable but you can find a few parallels between that tale and the current arc in OP so it's not impossible.
Last edited by Ledoke; September 29, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
I found this theory in some forums: Monet is a Yuki Onna (snow woman in japanese folklore). Here the wiki for Yuki Onna.
Some features of this character of japanese literature match some elements of Monet and of Punk Hazard´s arc (quotes from wiki):
This one matchs the possibility to follow Law with out being noticed.Quote:
So there are legends with Yuki Onnas and parents searching for their children. Does it sound familiar?Quote:
Also, there are Yuki Onnas in some mangas: Bleach, Ranma ½ and Nurarihyon no Mago, Dororon Enma-Kun and others.
Of course, snow DF is different than ice DF (Aokiji). If Monet is a Yuki Onna she would be able to manage snow, for instance hardening it like in Kamakura technique, or turning herself into a soft snowfall. And wings and talons should be Law’s work.