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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Since I assume the OP/ED is changing at episode 53, next week is probably when we'll find out what's going on with that.
Dam even though the episode didn't follow the manga people are butthurt over the scenes...If it was badly excuted or made bad changes.......than you can think that....But the episode brought it's point across plain and simple.
---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------
Bringing up little minuscule things as baldy came out of nowhere means nothing because Gon liked what he was saying period....
He didn't sound like he was exposing Zepile's lies.
-Hey, he is lying! He is actually after the treasure inside!
-Can you prove it? Even if there has been a treasure, now it could be gone... You're the liar here!
Now the most people would think, what would be Zepile's point in trying to deceive them, and they'd figure that he'd have nothing in it for him. Even though he was dealing with kids, Baldy shouldn't be underestimating them. And he should also foresee that they might just answer like:
-So what's the big deal? Let's just open it and check. Then we'll just decide if we'll sell it or not.
Baldy didn't have a point at all. His words couldn't make Gon sell the statue to the shop and he sounded like he never had such an aim (well in the manga he really didn't). You're saying that it doesn't matter and the whole point was to transmit the information to Gon. Well maybe, but he could aswell find it lying on the ground or just have Zepile randomly start explaining the tricks. Sorry, but I not only want to hints make a bigger picture, I want those hints to come out reasonably, for scenes and characters to make sense. And not only they didn't, it was a change from a perfectly reasonable scene. I just can't enjoy this particular change.
---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------
P.S. I think what was the most fishy about it is that Baldy sounded like he was in attacking position, with nothing to lose for him, while he was actually defending himself and his shop. Well, in the manga he definitely was an attacker, that's why it is that way here.
Last edited by ZonikStrike; September 27, 2012 at 03:21 PM.
In the manga AFTER Gon and Killua agree to work with Zepile they take the wooden vault to an Auction Preview.
There Baldy questions the authenticity of the vault, the jewels and Zepile's credibility using every kind of trick.
The reason WHY Baldy does this is because he wants to devalue the items so they sell for cheaper and then it's an easy buy.
In the Madhouse version from what I can remember Gon and Killua are selling a wooden vault they found in Killua's family's attic or something (I forget...I actually need to watch the episode again) Note this is BEFORE either one has met Zepile. Shopkeeper tries to "analyze" the wooden vault when in reality he wants to
steal the jewels inside. Zepile comes in to save the day. "There's DIAMONDS INSIDE THEM MONEY BAGS!" (not verbatim obviously) Baldy appears and argues
that one or another the item is not authentic. BUT WHY? It's already been established shopkeeper is at the very least questionable so even if Gon and Killua
thought Zepile was lying what was Baldy hoping they do? Sell it for cheap and not even check to see if there were DIAMONDS inside? That's a bit much.
Was the point to spark Gon's curiosity? Yes. That was the point of the scene.
But what was BALDY'S point. What was the MOTIVATION of that character?
In the manga Baldy's motivation was getting an steal by devaluing the items. When someone auctions an item there is a sense of urgency.
Seller and buyers get ripped off all the time because they either want to sell it or buy it as soon as possible and the item is misvalued.
Gon and Killua are just selling (actually they were really getting an appraisal at the shop.)
It's fine if you like the scene but you shouldn't call people butthurt because they have problems with it.
Zepile was interested in the Kids because he was CURIOUS about them. Didn't you see the questions he was asking? He asked them why they bought all that crap....The episode may come out of place but the same points were made.
---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------
Last edited by Noonealive; September 27, 2012 at 03:57 PM.
Why would Baldy try and make Gon and Killua doubt there was treasure inside if all they had to do was check it (which they did IMMEDIATELY after).
If you don't know just say you don't know. You can call us butthurt all day long but that's not going to stop us from criticizing and questioning the episode.
I think Zonik and I have a very legitimate question. We aren't complaining about something completely aesthestic--like how pretty the background was.
We are trying to figure out first WHAT Baldy's character motivation in the Madhouse version was and whether or not it makes sense.
Even if this WASN'T an adaptation we would still have to ask (even MORE so than) because it's not making any sense to us.
So if ANYONE can explain what Baldy's motivation in the episode was I would greatly appreciate it.
We keep talking about different things...
Fine, I understand that Gon liked their dialogue. But that wasn't Baldy's point, it was this scene's point! I totally agree with mrsticky. My question is what was Baldy's aim.
Baldy testing Zepile? Why did he even need to do that?
True Zepile did come out of nowhere but what let's pretend Zepile WAS lying. Why would he lie? So he can sound smart? Maybe but it doesn't serve
much of purpose. It's not like in the case there WASN'T treasure that Zepile would profit at all from the situation. So it's FAR more likely that
Zepile is either telling the truth or is he mistaken. But again all they had to do was open it up and check inside.
Even if opening it would devalue the item (though there wasn't much concern about that in the episode it seems) Gon and Killua could
always just say that they don't want to sell the item to the shopkeeper (as Zepile has has shown him to be questionable.) and NOT
open it up an try ANOTHER shop. Remember they aren't there to sell the item but to get a quote.
So there's really not much reason to distrust Zepile while there's just about every reason to distrust the shopkeeper.
Yes Baldy was testing to Zepile's knowledge BUT TO WHAT END? What was Baldy trying to achieve? If Baldy is a scammer as you say then
his goal should be to SCAM. He should be trying to gain something from the victims (Gon and Killua) through deceptive means. But what?
The statue? Even if Baldy thought Gon and Killua were stupid enough to believe him and sell the statue to the questionable shopkeeper
why would WE as an audience think Gon and Killua are that stupid when we already seen they're quite clever for kids? That's insulting!
You keep bringing up Gon and how he's innocent and curious. We get that. But that's besides the point.
This ISN'T about what Gon's characterization is but what Baldy's motivation was in trying to scam them.
Being a scammer isn't a motivation. That's who or what Baldy IS. That's like asking Togashi "What's your motivation for writing Hunter x Hunter"
and Togashi answers "I'm a writer!"...That doesn't really explain anything. Now if Togashi said "I ENJOY writing." or "I feel OBLIGATED to write"
that WOULD explain Togashi's MOTIVATION. The same logic applies to Baldy. Baldy is a scammer so he's trying to swindle Gon and Killua
out of the statue but why would arguing against Zepile's legitimacy have really any effect on that? Either there's something Zonik and I
are missing or Baldy is the worst scammer of all time (ok there's actually been worse. At least baldy knows when to quit.)
Why talk about it? Two reasons
1. If Zonik and I are wrong or mistaken and Baldy DOES have a legitimate motivation and m.o for questioning Zepile's claims then
I at the very least would like to know exactly HOW we are mistaken. Put simply we want the question answered.
2. If it is a plot hole we should acknowledge it just as we would acknowledge plot holes from the 99 series or even the manga. Lest we be hypocrites
3. Ok I lied there were two reasons. Sue me. The third reason---for the hell of it.
Seriously I just may have to end up answering my own darn question since either you don't know the answer or you DO know the answer but won't tell. Or you just don't get the question being asked.
I wasn't even serious and i wasn't implying it was a plothole...You guys are bringing it up like it is....and it's not.....He had the same purpose as the manga...so it's not a plot hole.
Last edited by Noonealive; September 27, 2012 at 05:13 PM.
Anyways I'll throw my hat in here. The Baldy scene was fine to me, it made sense and did not at all seem random to me. The anime presents Baldy as the store owner, with the man at the counter being simply his employee. Baldy's arguement with Zepile is his way of challenging him and his appraising to get him to slip up in order to bring Gon and Killua onto their side by defending his store and trying to discredit Zepile. Baldy knows the real value of the box, he is trying to scam Gon and Killua still, but Zepile is too good of an appraiser with too much knowledge in scamming, when he sees the extent of Zepile's will, he admits defeat. It was a great scene that highlighted Zepile's abiltiies and his uses to Gon and Killua. I don't see how it didn't make sense, it was really straight forward and honestly I feel that your knoweldge of his character in the manga really just got in the way of you enjoying the episode.
Last edited by Noonealive; September 27, 2012 at 05:21 PM.
I just want to know what Baldy's motivation was. I know he was "scamming" them but the scam isn't making any sense.
A scammer tries to cheat you out of something whether it be cash, your identity, jewelry, etc.
Making you "look stupid" is just a byproduct of being scammed.
Baldy wants to make money. Alright we got that. But that still doesn't explain how Baldy arguing against Zepile would accomplish that goal.
A characters actions should match up with their motivations and so far I am not seeing that from Baldy.